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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
06-28-2006, 03:19 PM
  #126
NFITO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19
Unfortunately you are not getting what I am saying...

if Steen was to be included the del would become that much bigger, be it whatever it took. I never wanted to post any proposals in this thread, i just wanted to see if Tor/Edm fans could sit down and rationally work out a potential proposal. But it seems that that s not possible as it seems there is always someone who overates their teams players. It was suppose to be a simple thread but people have gone ahead and made it that much more difficult.

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06-28-2006, 03:46 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO

Laugh all you want, but it's you guys who aren't being realistic. I'm not the one that is saying Pronger equals Kaberle.

I suggets that Pronger's worth right now (take into consideration that, 1) he requested a trade, 2) affter June 30th there will be a rush of UFA dmen hit the open market and further push his value down as teams will resort to signing other players), is probably equivilent to Toronto trading Tomas Kaberle, Matt Stajan and Jay Harrison. that package alone is quite the step up from what Edmonton gave up for Pronger initially. That's a pretty reasonable package for one player. People don't get give Stajan the credit he deserves. He was stuck under coach Quinns thumb and wasn't used in Offensive situations and wasn't used regularly during even strength. He got a ton of PK time tho.

And if you want to make the deal bigger, I'm game. Tucker would make a nice fit in Edmonton (as he's from AB, not to mention he comes cheap for what he brings to the game) and maybe Torres could be sent to Toronto (he's from TO, and he's been somewhat inconsistent thus far in his career)

I'm trying to be realistic, while people say I'm overating my (Leaf) players. For once can people look at themselves and see if they might infact be overrating their players?

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06-28-2006, 03:56 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19
Laugh all you want, but it's you guys who aren't being realistic. I'm not the one that is saying Pronger equals Kaberle.

I suggets that Pronger's worth right now (take into consideration that, 1) he requested a trade, 2) affter June 30th there will be a rush of UFA dmen hit the open market and further push his value down as teams will resort to signing other players), is probably equivilent to Toronto trading Tomas Kaberle, Matt Stajan and Jay Harrison. that package alone is quite the step up from what Edmonton gave up for Pronger initially. That's a pretty reasonable package for one player. People don't get give Stajan the credit he deserves. He was stuck under coach Quinns thumb and wasn't used in Offensive situations and wasn't used regularly during even strength. He got a ton of PK time tho.

And if you want to make the deal bigger, I'm game. Tucker would make a nice fit in Edmonton (as he's from AB, not to mention he comes cheap for what he brings to the game) and maybe Torres could be sent to Toronto (he's from TO, and he's been somewhat inconsistent thus far in his career)

I'm trying to be realistic, while people say I'm overating my (Leaf) players. For once can people look at themselves and see if they might infact be overrating their players?

no you arent being realistic, Pronger is the, if not the best defenseman, heck even player in the NHL, this time last year i wouldnt have believed it, but after watching him play all year he is, he does everything.

as to the his value going down because he requested a trade? oh please, 29 teams called and tried and or are trying to get him. as for the UFA Dman, 1, there isnt one ufa Dman that is the same caliber of pronger. 2, there arent enough UFA Dman to go around. after all the good ufa Dman are signed guess what happens? yup you guessed it Pronger value soars through the roof.


Stajan, harrison and kaberle...please no deal , not in a million year, Edmonton and Toronto do not make good trading partners. aside from steen there is not one player on the maple leafs roster or marlies roster that i would want, im guess kevin lowe feels the same. the second you said steen was untradable in your first post of the this thread, you might as well have deleted the thread. anything else is pointless.

as to adding players from edmonton POV like MAB ican only laugh to that, it's Pronger the pot is alreadyy sweetened, mayble a little too much. the only trade i see the oilers sweeting the pot is if its for crosby or ovechkin, pronger is the better player as of now, butt crosby and ovechkin will be around for a long time and besides we all know that those trades would never happen meaning, its pronger and only pronger that will be leaving the oilers roster in a trade

thank you and good night

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06-28-2006, 04:02 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xbax
no you arent being realistic, Pronger is the, if not the best defenseman, heck even player in the NHL, this time last year i wouldnt have believed it, but after watching him play all year he is, he does everything.

as to the his value going down because he requested a trade? oh please, 29 teams called and tried and or are trying to get him. as for the UFA Dman, 1, there isnt one ufa Dman that is the same caliber of pronger. 2, there arent enough UFA Dman to go around. after all the good ufa Dman are signed guess what happens? yup you guessed it Pronger value soars through the roof.


Stajan, harrison and kaberle...please no deal , not in a million year, Edmonton and Toronto do not make good trading partners. aside from steen there is not one player on the maple leafs roster or marlies roster that i would want, im guess kevin lowe feels the same. the second you said steen was untradable in your first post of the this thread, you might as well have deleted the thread. anything else is pointless.

as to adding players from edmonton POV like MAB ican only laugh to that, it's Pronger the pot is alreadyy sweetened, mayble a little too much. the only trade i see the oilers sweeting the pot is if its for crosby or ovechkin, pronger is the better player as of now, butt crosby and ovechkin will be around for a long time and besides we all know that those trades would never happen meaning, its pronger and only pronger that will be leaving the oilers roster in a trade

thank you and good night

I don't kow why 'm having such a hard time talking to intelligent people. You have to step back and rethink what you just wrote...don't worry...I'll be around...

And secondly, Edmonton fans have already admitted that Pronger wasn't that great this year in the regular season, and that he stepped his game up in the playoffs...so please....

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Old
06-28-2006, 04:08 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19
I don't kow why 'm having such a hard time talking to intelligent people. You have to step back and rethink what you just wrote...don't worry...I'll be around...

And secondly, Edmonton fans have already admitted that Pronger wasn't that great this year in the regular season, and that he stepped his game up in the playoffs...so please....
i dont see whats wrong with what i wrote, after reading your posts however, im starting to think that it's you that is incapable of carrying on the intelligent conversation.

pronger was good in the regular season and outstanding in the playoffs, the league rewards playoff performance, and pronger performed. he's value isnt going down anytime soon. and those who said pronger wasnt that great are just talking nonsense he got the job done in the regular season and shone in the playoffs.

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Old
06-28-2006, 04:16 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19

And secondly, Edmonton fans have already admitted that Pronger wasn't that great this year in the regular season, and that he stepped his game up in the playoffs...so please....
Which Oiler fans are these? I am one and am on our board an awful lot and haven't seen that idea posted by anyone. He had a slow start to the year, no doubt. Coming off and injury and a year layoff it took him some time to get his game back. Since mid November every Oiler fan on HF has been raving about his play.

And in the playoffs everyone else in the NHL just started to notice what we were saying for most of the year. Just because Pronger played in the media void of the west doesn't mean he had a bad year. People (TO/NY Media) just weren't giving him any attention.

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Old
06-28-2006, 04:33 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19
Laugh all you want, but it's you guys who aren't being realistic. I'm not the one that is saying Pronger equals Kaberle.

I suggets that Pronger's worth right now (take into consideration that, 1) he requested a trade, 2) affter June 30th there will be a rush of UFA dmen hit the open market and further push his value down as teams will resort to signing other players), is probably equivilent to Toronto trading Tomas Kaberle, Matt Stajan and Jay Harrison. that package alone is quite the step up from what Edmonton gave up for Pronger initially. That's a pretty reasonable package for one player. People don't get give Stajan the credit he deserves. He was stuck under coach Quinns thumb and wasn't used in Offensive situations and wasn't used regularly during even strength. He got a ton of PK time tho.

And if you want to make the deal bigger, I'm game. Tucker would make a nice fit in Edmonton (as he's from AB, not to mention he comes cheap for what he brings to the game) and maybe Torres could be sent to Toronto (he's from TO, and he's been somewhat inconsistent thus far in his career)

I'm trying to be realistic, while people say I'm overating my (Leaf) players. For once can people look at themselves and see if they might infact be overrating their players?
I'm not an Oiler fan, so it's not likely that I'm being a homer here..

but let's break it down here...

the key question is what is Pronger's worth right now. the fact that you keep bringing up his worth a year ago shows me that you aren't considering his current value at all.

Do you seriously think that his value is the same today, as it was a year ago?

I brought up the Sundin example to try and show you why the values are so different... is Sundin's value the same today as it would be if he was 32, signed to a 4yr contract, at $6mill/yr?

How can you ignore that Pronger's value would have changed *dramatically* between when he was a RFA, a year from UFA status, with a qualifying offer of over $7mill, to now signed for 4 more years at $6mill - which is lower than other top dmen in the league (like Niedermayer, and where Chara will be soon).

He did Edmonton a huge favour by signing that contract... he could have turned down a qualifier and hit the UFA market this season, but he instead chose to sign longterm for less than his qualifying offer.

Edmonton needs to milk that... there is no way they should even expect a similar return to what they gave up for him. They've now got him locked up to a solid contract, and after an excellent playoff run... these things improve asset value, and Lowe isn't that much of an idiot to ignore that.

As for Toronto's offer, you're the only one that seems to think it's a great offer for Edmonton - it's not. They have no need for guys like Harrison - why even bring it up. He might have asset value to the Leafs, but all he does in Edmonton is take up a spot from one of their younger players... he's not a special enough player otherwise to make room for.

I also don't think anyone is saying that Stajan is garbage... but he's hardly enough to justify moving Pronger - or going from Pronger to Kaberle (who doesn't even want to be in Edmonton) in the lineup. It's not like the Oilers don't have their own young players like Stoll or Torres to fill out the lineup.

finally, I don't see why Edmonton would have to start including players like Torres in such a deal... they should be able to get some good assets back for Pronger without having to give up a good young 2-way guy like Torres in the process.

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Old
06-28-2006, 04:42 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO

He did Edmonton a huge favour by signing that contract... he could have turned down a qualifier and hit the UFA market this season, but he instead chose to sign longterm for less than his qualifying offer.

Edmonton needs to milk that... there is no way they should even expect a similar return to what they gave up for him. They've now got him locked up to a solid contract, and after an excellent playoff run... these things improve asset value, and Lowe isn't that much of an idiot to ignore that.
This section of your post needs to be set up as a sticky. I've seen one million people pull out the "Why are Edmonton fans unhappy with this deal? It's better than what you moved in the first place!" card and it makes no sense whatsoever.

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Old
06-28-2006, 04:56 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
I'm not an Oiler fan, so it's not likely that I'm being a homer here..

(...)

finally, I don't see why Edmonton would have to start including players like Torres in such a deal... they should be able to get some good assets back for Pronger without having to give up a good young 2-way guy like Torres in the process.


Excellent message, especially the last point.

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