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Old
01-27-2013, 10:16 PM
  #76
newfy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masyo88 View Post
Westgrath, Parros, Scott, Crombeen, Labrie, Rupp, Shelly, Setisto are known for something than more then fighting?

Dude just stop it, we need some toughness in the line up. Brown and Orr are fine, and are not a liability. That's how its going to be with Randy as the coach, if you don't like go watch another team. The East is getting tougher and we need to keep up and not be pushed around.
Shelly is only in the league to fight sure, but hes never in the line up and even when he does play hes getting more like 8 mins a game not 3. Crombeen is a solid third or fourth liner who plays over 10 minutes a game, Rupps a decent hockey player too. Sestito is brutal at hockey but he actually skates fast enough that he throws big hits, something Orr doesnt do and Brown is alright at. Even Parros chips in some goals. Those guys are all better at hockey then Orr even if they arent that good and none are playing 3 mins a game

Orrs alright to have in the lineup against tougher teams but should be a healthy scratch against most teams, especially if Brown is in the line up. Playing both those guys makes the fourth line non existent, only capable of playing 4 minutes a game. If Orr could get his skating to the point he could actually forecheck he might be better for the every night line up

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01-27-2013, 10:22 PM
  #77
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Orr was just waived right through the entire NHL nobody wanted this guy...gee i wonder why...yet some Leafs fans here think it's crucial to have Orr in the Leafs lineup he's going to help the Leafs win hockey games with his fists and by playing 3 minutes on the 4th line...are you kidding me!

There is a huge difference between team toughness which the Bruins have and just goon fighters that the Leafs have.

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01-27-2013, 10:30 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by rimshot View Post
Well aren't we the little nit-picker. Okay then, after Orr was sent down how did the team fare? I recall a lot of being on the wrong end of the cheapshots, the physical play and our smaller players were running scared, especially Kessel. If you are OK with all this, fine, but do not try to tell me that Orr does not make a difference.
Nit-picker? It may help if you checked some facts before you post nonsense. Please feel free to provide examples of such cheap shots while the sheriff wasn't in town.

Orr's presence didn't effect the team's performance one way or another.

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01-27-2013, 11:40 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
. . Those guys are all better at hockey then Orr even if they arent that good and none are playing 3 mins a game
You're right. Rupp played a whopping 2:08 the other night.

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01-28-2013, 12:09 AM
  #80
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You're right. Rupp played a whopping 2:08 the other night.
Rupp a couple years ago was playing over 10 mins a game, he usually plays more like 7 or so with the rangers. Thats still almost double of Orr. He has taken a step down though in ice time since being with the rangers, he was playing on Crosbys wing for a bit because he was well liked in Pittsburgh. He does have 53 NHL goals though compared to Orr's 11.

Hes less of a liability if you want him to play a regular shift but isnt as good of a fighter

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Old
01-28-2013, 12:55 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MapleLeafGardens View Post
Orr was just waived right through the entire NHL nobody wanted this guy...gee i wonder why...yet some Leafs fans here think it's crucial to have Orr in the Leafs lineup he's going to help the Leafs win hockey games with his fists and by playing 3 minutes on the 4th line...are you kidding me!

There is a huge difference between team toughness which the Bruins have and just goon fighters that the Leafs have.
Players get waived all the time, so that point is mute. It is crucial to have Orr, cause we don't have the players that can play and fight. Komo, Phaneuf will not intimidate the other team at all, do you really want Komo and Phaneuf to fight the other teams tough guys? LOL Last year we barely hit our opponents and now for most of the season we have out them!! Face it Orr and Brown add a different to our lineup. Not my fault you don't realize

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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Nit-picker? It may help if you checked some facts before you post nonsense. Please feel free to provide examples of such cheap shots while the sheriff wasn't in town.
You mean like these? Sighhh here's another lie soft leaf fans spread out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrorLoqmUQc-->look how brave Kaleta is there

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85ji9lmkPcU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET4QRF9r8h0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN0ALTJyj5I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBxedLzuBgU

Also I could find you lots more from last year but I'm to lazy and I proved my point. all ready. Next time check your facts before stating things. Look at Neil and how eager he is to go with Neil with Orr in the lineup. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MDYqUTacAY

'"Orr's presence didn't effect the team's performance one way or another"

That's straight up false, our top 9 is pretty soft. Our bottom 3 needs to be gritty and nasty to make up for our soft 9. And umm Randy Carlyle the coach has said that Orr provides a protective presence and our players need protection. Our players always play a few inches taller when hes in the line up. Nice try though


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01-28-2013, 01:04 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Rupp a couple years ago was playing over 10 mins a game, he usually plays more like 7 or so with the rangers. Thats still almost double of Orr. He has taken a step down though in ice time since being with the rangers, he was playing on Crosbys wing for a bit because he was well liked in Pittsburgh. He does have 53 NHL goals though compared to Orr's 11.

Hes less of a liability if you want him to play a regular shift but isnt as good of a fighter
Yea Orr a couple of years ago was playing in a decent checking role in NY. Point being? Hatred is a terrible thing.

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01-28-2013, 01:05 AM
  #83
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great combo, destroyed the 1st period

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01-28-2013, 01:09 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MapleLeafGardens View Post
Orr was just waived right through the entire NHL nobody wanted this guy...gee i wonder why...yet some Leafs fans here think it's crucial to have Orr in the Leafs lineup he's going to help the Leafs win hockey games with his fists and by playing 3 minutes on the 4th line...are you kidding me!

There is a huge difference between team toughness which the Bruins have and just goon fighters that the Leafs have.
This.

Who is intimidated by this Leafs team?

Did the Rangers look like they were intimidated?

Whether or not Colton Orr is in the lineup, other teams will view the Leafs as a quick, but small and extremely soft team.

Think about it - we've had Rosehill. We've had Orr. We've had Brown. Has that done anything for this team?

It's still a team that has finished nowhere relevant. Enforcers offer nothing. Guys that can play and fight do. This team is not a tough team, and doesn't become a tough team because Colton Orr laces up the boots.

Heck - if Brendan Prust and Colby Armstrong ever get going, the ****ing Montreal Canadiens will be a tougher team than us.

Boston. Buffalo. Rangers. Those are tough teams. The Leafs are not a tough team.

Having Colton Orr drop the gloves every game in the opening 4 minutes for a staged fight doesn't change that.

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01-28-2013, 01:16 AM
  #85
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Anyone who has actually played this game at a decent level knows how important tough guys are to a team. Seeing a tilt off the hop does a ton for the team and the adrenaline gets going and you just end up wanting to run through the opposition. I personally love having Brown and Orr in the lineup, we've responded immediately (granted it didn't last long in some of the games) after each of their scraps. Instead of finding ways to get them to fight less, I want to find ways to see them scrap more. You cant tell me the boys weren't pumped to see Orr dust up Engelland

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Old
01-28-2013, 01:53 AM
  #86
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Well I don't disagree that Boston's 4th line is much better than ours.

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01-28-2013, 02:45 AM
  #87
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So who should we replace these guys with?

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01-28-2013, 05:41 AM
  #88
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Brown isnt just a tough guy though hes a decent grinder who would be welcome on any teams 4th line in a playoffs situation. Orr just hurts people.

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01-28-2013, 07:19 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masyo88 View Post
Players get waived all the time, so that point is mute. It is crucial to have Orr, cause we don't have the players that can play and fight. Komo, Phaneuf will not intimidate the other team at all, do you really want Komo and Phaneuf to fight the other teams tough guys? LOL Last year we barely hit our opponents and now for most of the season we have out them!! Face it Orr and Brown add a different to our lineup. Not my fault you don't realize



You mean like these? Sighhh here's another lie soft leaf fans spread out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrorLoqmUQc-->look how brave Kaleta is there
Orr was in the lineup for that game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by masyo88 View Post
Yes, yes, the much debated Grabo not looking where he's going and skating into Neil play. He's prone to those bonehead suicidal plays as we've seen in the past. That doesn't necessarily make them cheapshots.

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Originally Posted by masyo88 View Post
We had Rosehill warming the bench during this bout. Are you saying that Orr warming the bench in his stead would have made things much different?

Quote:
Originally Posted by masyo88 View Post
These are the exact kind of spur of the moment events that a player who's benched for 57 mins of a game won't be able to do much about. Do you think Gleason would have fought Orr in the 2nd or the 3rd had he been in the lineup?

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Originally Posted by masyo88 View Post
Orr was in the lineup for this game, the notorious night when Lebda went -3 in a 9-3 win. This is just Colby doing his job. Trolling players into penalties while turtling. It's unfortunate that he got poked in the eye during the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by masyo88 View Post
Also I could find you lots more from last year but I'm to lazy and I proved my point. all ready. Next time check your facts before stating things. Look at Neil and how eager he is to go with Neil with Orr in the lineup. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MDYqUTacAY

'"Orr's presence didn't effect the team's performance one way or another"

That's straight up false, our top 9 is pretty soft. Our bottom 3 needs to be gritty and nasty to make up for our soft 9. And umm Randy Carlyle the coach has said that Orr provides a protective presence and our players need protection. Our players always play a few inches taller when hes in the line up. Nice try though
A coach who will stick up defend his players? I know, I know, after Wilson, not everyone is used to it, but it's not like Carlyle will call Orr out for being a plug. The icetime he gives him speaks louder than words ever could.

So you've managed to look up some fights from hockeyfights.com during the stretches when Orr was supposedly demoted. The fact that Orr was actually dressed for two of those fights just goes to prove my point that much more. Him warming the bench had no effect on Armstrong getting sucker punched, or Phaneuf getting trolled by Kaleta.

Here are some more examples of our stars/skilled players being forced to fight their own battles against plugs, and our prospect(s) (Schenn) getting beaten up while Orr, and Mayers/Excelby/Brown are sitting on the bench.

Fisher vs Versteeg (with Orr and Brown in the lineup)

Phaneuf vs Horton (with Orr and Brown in the lineup)

Phaneuf vs Newbury (with Orr in the lineup) why does our captain have to "fight" 4th line plugs with an enforcer present?

Schenn vs Glass (with Orr, Excelby, and Mayers in the linup) Great job protecting our prospects.

Schenn vs Neil (with Orr and Mayers in the lineup)

Kessel vs Russel (with Orr and Mayers in the lineup)

Phaneuf vs White (with Orr, and Excelby in the lineup)

Here's the thing, I have nothing against fighting, and nothing against Orr (other than the fact that he can't play the game at the NHL level). As a matter of fact, I love fights that are fueled by emotion and happen in the heat of the game. These staged fights where both combatants nod to each other before dropping the gloves pale in comparison.

When I think of protecting our young players/stars, I think of Phaneuf getting mugged RIGHT AFTER he rode Tavares into the boards. Orr cannot provide this for the club with his 3 mins of icetime. His staged fights are not doing much, as you can tell from above examples, our prospects/skilled players were forced to take matters into their own hands, often during games where Orr had already had a fight.

At the end of the day, I don't believe goons who can only play 3-5 mins a night bring much to the table, other than the sideshow entertainment of staged fights.


Last edited by 4evaBlue: 01-28-2013 at 07:25 AM.
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Old
01-28-2013, 07:23 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
So who should we replace these guys with?
A player who can actually play the game preferably. A grinder/agitator/PK specialist, etc. A Komarov-McClement/Steckel-Brown line looks defensively responsible enough to earn around 10+ mins icetime in an attempt to create some energy.

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01-28-2013, 08:41 AM
  #91
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Seriously am i the only one thinks that if we are still going to loose at least we are not such a ***** team like we have been since Tucker/Domi/Belak/Sundin left .
Of course we need these guys on our team we dont look like such wimps and we are a harder team to play against . These guys need more icetime as far as im concerned.

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01-28-2013, 08:49 AM
  #92
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At least we go down swinging rather than with our tail between our legs like we did under the "Maurice and Rotten Ronnie" era. Those teams were painful to watch. No passion, no balls.

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01-28-2013, 08:51 AM
  #93
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At least we go down swinging rather than with our tail between our legs like we did under the "Maurice and Rotten Ronnie" era. Those teams were painful to watch. No passion, no balls.
EXACTLY we were Pu**ys

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01-28-2013, 09:05 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Blayzer View Post
At least we go down swinging rather than with our tail between our legs like we did under the "Maurice and Rotten Ronnie" era. Those teams were painful to watch. No passion, no balls.
Just for the record, during the Rotten Ronnie era when we went down with our tails between our legs, Orr has played in more than half of the games (133 of 216), and Rosehill played in a considerable amount of the games when Orr wasn't dressed (44 games), either because of his concussion or demotion. We didn't go all that many games without dressing a heavy weight.

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01-28-2013, 09:06 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Just for the record, during the Rotten Ronnie era when we went down with our tails between our legs, Orr has played in more than half of the games (133 of 246), and Rosehill played in a considerable amount of the games when Orr wasn't dressed (59), either because of his concussion or demotion. We didn't go all that many games without dressing a heavy weight.
Rosehill is not a heavy and sucked at fighting ,therefore other teams were not worried about Rosehill

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01-28-2013, 09:09 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by s dubay View Post
Rosehill is not a heavy and sucked at fighting ,therefore other teams were not worried about Rosehill
Teams weren't worried about Orr (who played in more than half of the games), either. If they didn't want to fight him, they didn't have to (instigator rule). Despite Rosehill not being deemed a heavy weight by you, he's fought against the likes of Prust, Shawn Thorton, Lucic, Zack Smith, and Rupp.

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01-28-2013, 09:27 AM
  #97
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If we can't beat em at least we can beat em up.

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01-28-2013, 09:35 AM
  #98
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If we can't beat em at least we can beat em up.
Excellent . Well said my man

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01-28-2013, 10:22 AM
  #99
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If we can't beat em at least we can beat em up.
That actually matters to me too

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01-28-2013, 12:40 PM
  #100
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The last 3 posts ^ are classic examples of why Leafs fans are hated and called the worst fans in the NHL.

It's bad sportsmanship from Leafs fans like this that continually brings bad karma to the team.

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