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David Desharnais Discussion (Slow Start & Contact Talk)

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Old
01-27-2013, 10:36 PM
  #51
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Which is the way it should be. They are our future, and a good way to develop them is to give them soft minutes exploitation.

I am thrilled to see this. It's a welcome change from the Carboaching era of throwing the rookies into the future. I remember seeing a first line od D'Agostini-Koivu-Pacioretty back in 2008
Pacioretty? You mean Kostitsyn right? Pacioretty played his first NHL game in 2009.

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01-27-2013, 10:40 PM
  #52
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Pacioretty? You mean Kostitsyn right? Pacioretty played his first NHL game in 2009.
It's been a while, I might be misremembering the years.

It was 2009, I think we saw Koivu-D'Agostini-Pacioretty for a bit. I may be screwing up some of these ancient details, but either way, Carbo did that mistake a lot, with O'Byrne too.

Either way, forget the details, the point is that Therrien is being intelligent by babying the minutes of our rookies, if that is really the case. According to Behindthenet, Galchenyuk's Corsi Rel QoC is -1.967, that is unreal babying, though I think that stat is nearly meaningless 4 games into the season, it's probably amplified and really supposed to be -0.500 or something.

The lines should be managed such that younger players get easier minutes. Therrien is doing this. Props to Therrien.

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01-27-2013, 10:44 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Which is the way it should be. They are our future, and a good way to develop them is to give them soft minutes exploitation.

I am thrilled to see this. It's a welcome change from the Carboaching era of throwing the rookies into the future. I remember seeing a first line od D'Agostini-Koivu-Pacioretty back in 2008
I agree, but it would be nice if the DD line can be converted into a legitimate two way line to ease the burden of the Plekanec line. We tried stat padding one line last year and it was a disaster, that works if you have the Sedins but it's a waste without it.

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01-27-2013, 10:46 PM
  #54
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I agree, but it would be nice if the DD line can be converted into a legitimate two way line to ease the burden of the Plekanec line. We tried stat padding one line last year and it was a disaster, that works if you have the Sedins but it's a waste without it.
I think we agree completely on this.

For the DD line to become "a legitimate 2-way line", Eller will need to be the center and DD the winger.

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01-27-2013, 10:55 PM
  #55
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It's just been 4 games he and Cole will get it going. Desharnais isn't a superstar but he can be a very good player for us.

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01-27-2013, 10:57 PM
  #56
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I think we agree completely on this.

For the DD line to become "a legitimate 2-way line", Eller will need to be the center and DD the winger.
Exactly. At the very least an Eller-anchored line will be able to dive the workload with Plekanec and not force us to keep the same wingers together in every situation. If you don't have superstars up front you need flexibility.

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01-27-2013, 10:57 PM
  #57
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I think we agree completely on this.

For the DD line to become "a legitimate 2-way line", Eller will need to be the center and DD the winger.
therein lies the problem. one midget in the top 6 is enough. how is DD supposed to win a single puck battle? he doesn't even have good speed for a small guy

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01-27-2013, 11:23 PM
  #58
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therein lies the problem. one midget in the top 6 is enough. how is DD supposed to win a single puck battle? he doesn't even have good speed for a small guy
I think the rule should be one midget per line not one midget per team.

As long as Desharnais, Gionta, and Gallagher are on three separate lines, the Habs actually have the size to pull off a proper balance.

Desharnais-Eller-Cole
Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Gallagher-Galchenyuk-Prust

And if somebody gets injured, throw in Travis Moen who is 6'2", or in four weeks, Max Pacioretty who is 6'2".

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01-27-2013, 11:36 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I think the rule should be one midget per line not one midget per team.

As long as Desharnais, Gionta, and Gallagher are on three separate lines, the Habs actually have the size to pull off a proper balance.

Desharnais-Eller-Cole
Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Gallagher-Galchenyuk-Prust

And if somebody gets injured, throw in Travis Moen who is 6'2", or in four weeks, Max Pacioretty who is 6'2".
Yeah I think this should be the solution, Desharnais on the wing wasn't bad and could help the guy while Eller always showed more ease at center, because right now Desharnais play is worrying me, I think we've never seen him play like this since his NHL debut (Has his quality of competition increased significantly ?).

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01-28-2013, 12:02 AM
  #60
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Cole has a slow start eiher. The line has is chances. What I like about this team is that the offense is now spread on three lines with a real "energy" line. Desharnais and Cole had a slow start last year and they did well. Un fortunatelly right now, Eller isn't Pacioretty. But, at the end, we have to keep in mind that it's just four games...

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01-28-2013, 12:03 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I think the rule should be one midget per line not one midget per team.

As long as Desharnais, Gionta, and Gallagher are on three separate lines, the Habs actually have the size to pull off a proper balance.

Desharnais-Eller-Cole
Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Gallagher-Galchenyuk-Prust

And if somebody gets injured, throw in Travis Moen who is 6'2", or in four weeks, Max Pacioretty who is 6'2".
Gionta is strong for a midget though, he wins battles. Plekanec, if you count him as "small", also wins battles despite not being particularly physical. Which is why they can play together without hurting anyone. But Desharnais, and not due to a lack of effort, gets outmatched and that's why he especially needs bigger teammates, and doesn't necessarily have to play as a C.

Gallagher at this point is in the same situation but as long as the sheltered line is working I'd leave it alone, especially because playing Gallagher and DD together is probably an awful idea. Which is why the logical short term move is not to mix the lines up yet, but just to flip Eller and Desharnais so the middle is sturdier.

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01-28-2013, 01:05 AM
  #62
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Im still waiting to see Desharnais's underrated shot..

Very small, average speed, weak shot.. Last year DD had time to make his plays cause he was playing with 2 fast power fowards at the top of their game creating ton of space everywhere on the ice.. This year, his weakness are more apparent cause Cole is cold, has a slow start (what was to be expected) and Max is now injured.. Hopefully Eller can jump in and have an impact on this line cause if not, we are in trouble.. I love Desharnais' determination but lets be honest, he is a decent filler at best, marginal NHLer.. There is no way I see him on the wings, would get killed along the boards, the kid is a natural center, I dont see a different way to use him, just keep giving him 2 big talended wingers that skate well and can create room on the ice so he can have time to setup them.. Then you reevaluate the center position this summer, you let him walk or sign him cheap for 1 more year.. there is no way we overpay for a marginal NHLer.. no way..

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01-28-2013, 01:39 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Im still waiting to see Desharnais's underrated shot..

Very small, average speed, weak shot.. Last year DD had time to make his plays cause he was playing with 2 fast power fowards at the top of their game creating ton of space everywhere on the ice.. This year, his weakness are more apparent cause Cole is cold, has a slow start (what was to be expected) and Max is now injured.. Hopefully Eller can jump in and have an impact on this line cause if not, we are in trouble.. I love Desharnais' determination but lets be honest, he is a decent filler at best, marginal NHLer.. There is no way I see him on the wings, would get killed along the boards, the kid is a natural center, I dont see a different way to use him, just keep giving him 2 big talended wingers that skate well and can create room on the ice so he can have time to setup them.. Then you reevaluate the center position this summer, you let him walk or sign him cheap for 1 more year.. there is no way we overpay for a marginal NHLer.. no way..
Bang on with everything you said! People were saying before season started "give him 4-5 millions dollars long term". Crazy talk!

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01-28-2013, 04:41 AM
  #64
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The DD's haters are unreal. Jumping on every opportunity they find to start a new hating thread about him...

He's having an "average" 4 first games (even if he sets up 2 of the game winning goals out of 3, and he's even in the +/-), and that's the weak reason they find to start a thread to say "I told you!". Yeah...

It's the same haters who were starting threads last year to say that all the success that DD had was not his fault, that it was because he were "protected" by 2 "much better players", Cole and Pacioretty, who had career season, as a coincidence only, because their center was not helpful at all, of course. DD was just lucky to be there.

To justify their argument, the same haters (who usually have a crush on Lars Eller), needed to create a new statistic showing that apparently, DD was facing a "weaker opposition". As if the most offensive players of the opposing team were necessarly the strongest opposition... As if the coaches of every other team needed a whole season to wake up, watch the stats and suddenly find out who was the most offensive line on the Habs last year. As if they never watch videos and make daily adjustments.

It's the same haters who thought DD didn't belong in the NHL, that he was too small to make it, that Brock Trotter had a much better chance to make it. It's the same haters who thought DD was nothing more than a career ECHL player, or that his QMJHL numbers would never translate in the pros.

I don't know, but if I was one of those many DD haters here on the Habs board, I'd be a little more shy before talking against the little guy. When the guy has already made you eat crows 2, 3 and 4 times, maybe haters should be aware that they look like fools and bad "gérants d'estrade" anytime they hate the guy once more.

It's too late for haters to start threads to say "I told you" about DD. You were all wrong from the start. Why should we listen to you now? 3 NHL coaches (Martin, Cunneyworth and Therrien) have seen enough talent in him to give him a lot of ice time. What credibility do YOU have?

We all know the main reason behind this blind hate, anyway. It's the same story over and over again, on this board.


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Old
01-28-2013, 05:58 AM
  #65
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I'm not worried at all about his play. He's lacking confidence, but he hasn't made any glaring mistakes. Not everyone is going to be firing on all cylinders, you people need to pump your brakes.

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01-28-2013, 06:16 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
It's the same haters who were starting threads last year to say that all the success that DD had was not his fault, that it was because he were "protected" by 2 "much better players", Cole and Pacioretty, who had career season, as a coincidence only, because their center was not helpful at all, of course. DD was just lucky to be there.
I think that everybody agrees that Erik Cole had a career season because Desharnais is a better center than Eric Staal, and that Carolina would have to throw in draft picks for us to agree to a Desharnais-for-Staal trade.

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01-28-2013, 07:35 AM
  #67
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I think that everybody agrees that Erik Cole had a career season because Desharnais is a better center than Eric Staal, and that Carolina would have to throw in draft picks for us to agree to a Desharnais-for-Staal trade.
We get it, you hate Desharnais. Fact of the matter is that Cole had a career year and Desharnais helped that.

The other fact is that both are sucking this year (and Pacioretty, although posting points, was right there with them when he was in the line-up).

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01-28-2013, 07:44 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Im still waiting to see Desharnais's underrated shot..

Very small, average speed, weak shot.. Last year DD had time to make his plays cause he was playing with 2 fast power fowards at the top of their game creating ton of space everywhere on the ice.. This year, his weakness are more apparent cause Cole is cold, has a slow start (what was to be expected) and Max is now injured.. Hopefully Eller can jump in and have an impact on this line cause if not, we are in trouble.. I love Desharnais' determination but lets be honest, he is a decent filler at best, marginal NHLer.. There is no way I see him on the wings, would get killed along the boards, the kid is a natural center, I dont see a different way to use him, just keep giving him 2 big talended wingers that skate well and can create room on the ice so he can have time to setup them.. Then you reevaluate the center position this summer, you let him walk or sign him cheap for 1 more year.. there is no way we overpay for a marginal NHLer.. no way..
This this this this. I got destroyed for saying this and saying Pleks was better.

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01-28-2013, 07:53 AM
  #69
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One thing that is clear to me: teams are giving him no time and space this year. As soon as he has the puck in the offensive zone, defenceman are getting right in his grill. And Desharnais doesn't have the speed or the size to win those battles.
To elaborate on this, last year defenders were not laying on him like we see this year. If you notice this year, defenseman are learning how to play Desharnais now and are just leaning on him as he is carrying the puck, forcing him off the puck and they get a quick turn over. As a small centerman he needs to be using his lower center of gravity to help shield the puck and stay lower then the defenseman. Martin St.Louis is a good example, he is very quick and stays low constantly as he is puck handling. Desharnais should try to copy that style of play.

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01-28-2013, 08:32 AM
  #70
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He's a good player but his size frustrates me. Again it was him in front of our net who couldn't win the puck on NJ's tying goal. He was just shielded away by a bigger player who had an easy shot on Carey. Desharnais can't be a center on your top line. Get him out of there.

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01-28-2013, 08:42 AM
  #71
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The DD's haters are unreal. Jumping on every opportunity the find to start a new hating thread about him...

He's having an "average" 4 first games (even if he sets up 2 of the game winning goals out of 3, and he's even in the +/-), and that's the weak reason they find to start a thread to say "I told you!". Yeah...

It's the same haters who were starting threads last year to say that all the success that DD had was not his fault, that it was because he were "protected" by 2 "much better players", Cole and Pacioretty, who had career season, as a coincidence only, because their center was not helpful at all, of course. DD was just lucky to be there.

To justify their argument, the same haters (who usually have a crush on Lars Eller), needed to create a new statistic showing that apparently, DD was facing a "weaker opposition". As if the most offensive players of the opposing team were necessarly the strongest opposition... As if the coaches of every other team needed a whole season to wake up, watch the stats and suddenly find out who was the most offensive line on the Habs last year. As if they never watch videos and make daily adjustments.

It's the same haters who thought DD didn't belong in the NHL, that he was too small to make it, that Brock Trotter had a much better chance to make it. It's the same haters who thought DD was nothing more than a career ECHL player, or that his QMJHL numbers would never translate in the pros.

I don't know, but if I was one of those many DD haters here on the Habs board, I'd be a little more shy before talking against the little guy. When the guy has already made you eat crows 2, 3 and 4 times, maybe haters should be aware that they look like fools and bad "gérants d'estrade" anytime they hate the guy once more.

It's too late for haters to start threads to say "I told you" about DD. You were all wrong from the start. Why should we listen to you now? 3 NHL coaches (Martin, Cunneyworth and Therrien) have seen enough talent in him to give him a lot of ice time. What credibility do YOU have?

We all know the main reason behind this blind hate, anyway. It's the same story over and over again, on this board.
Amazing eh?!

It’s like all the Desharnais’ haters have been waiting 86 games for him to show a sign of struggle before jumping on him. I expect Desharnais to send them back to their caves in the next games!

Desharnais, Pacioretty and Cole, on even strength, sure are having a slow start but they work hard, the opportunities are there and they are holding their ground. They are not outplayed. So I am not ready yet to press the panic button; especially when you consider the fact that all the other lines, including our #1 line (Plekanec’s), are doing just fine.

Last season, starting around November, Desharnais’ line faced our opponent’s top pairing Ds and shut down line... that’s not what I call a walk in the park. However, thus far this season, Therrien, rightfully so btw, is sheltering Galchenyuk’s line big time and, contrary to Desharnais’s line last season, our opponents are not sending their top pairing Ds against our two rookies.

The result is an increased pressure on our top 2 lines. Plekanec, our #1 centre, has been there before but Desharnais, a guy with only a season and a half under his belt, will need time to adapt. The guy is a student of the game so I think he will find a way.


PS Regarding "... We all know the main reason behind this blind hate, anyway. It's the same story over and over again, on this board...": I agree but to be fair, it’s always the same 4-5 posters who seem to have a major fixation on the beautiful French language! Despite those 4-5 posters, hfboards remains a very cool hockey board imo.

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01-28-2013, 09:33 AM
  #72
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It's just been 4 games he and Cole will get it going. Desharnais isn't a superstar but he can be a very good player for us.
Yes it's just been 4 games but you would expect a little more from a guy that's been playing during the lockout. I hope he turns it around but I honestly think he never repeats last year's performance and glad we didn't dump Plekanec like many people suggested we should

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01-28-2013, 09:45 AM
  #73
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He's a good player but his size frustrates me. Again it was him in front of our net who couldn't win the puck on NJ's tying goal. He was just shielded away by a bigger player who had an easy shot on Carey. Desharnais can't be a center on your top line. Get him out of there.
On Zubrus' goal it was Cole who let him go. Desharnais is the best playmaker on the team right now. I don't get all the hate. He is a cheap center that gives us more than his salary. IT's unfair to compare him with Staal but if their's one side of the game where Desharnais is better, it is as a playmaker. Size isn't everything and their's a reason why Desharnais never get drafted. At 6'3'' 220 lbs he would have been a top 5 pick. But right now, he is not player as poorly as people here say, he has 2 points in four games. He could create more dangerous plays but replacing him by lazy Eller would be a shame. Lars is playing poorly whoever he plays with. The injury to Pacioretty gives him a break and he needs to catch it. And right now the Plekanec line is our top line. But maybe in two weaks, we will have a thread against Gionta because he is small and can't contain big wingers in the D zone... I like our three balanced lines and I really love our fourth "energy" line. Pretty good team right now.

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01-28-2013, 09:46 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
To justify their argument, the same haters (who usually have a crush on Lars Eller), needed to create a new statistic showing that apparently, DD was facing a "weaker opposition".
Nobody is inventing any stats here. The Corsi stat was created by the goalie coach in Buffalo years ago and it is used on a regular basis by professional scouts. It has nothing to do with objectively "rating" players, but rather on real, measurable stats. Go read up on how it is calculated.

DD is not a 1st line centre. He can be a useful player when given easy minutes and PP time (the way Briere is used in Philly), but we are dead if he's our go-to offensive pivot. For that matter, Eller is not a 1st line centre either. I think he can develop into a very good 3rd line centre, but right now we lack a true puck posession checking line like the Bolland line in Chicago. We need that if we are going anywhere in the playoffs.

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01-28-2013, 09:51 AM
  #75
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Gallagher - Desharnais - Gionta

Just for one shift.

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