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Bylsma/coaching discussion thread

View Poll Results: How long do you give Dan?
Fire him now 18 22.22%
15 games 33 40.74%
30 games 4 4.94%
Fire him if we fail in the play-offs 23 28.40%
Keep him till next year 3 3.70%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-28-2013, 08:41 AM
  #301
Ugene Malkin
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Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
Well the 1st 'message' he should send is to get Kunitz off the PP. He's there to retrieve pucks and get in front of the net. He's doing neither. With Neal on the point, there's almost as much chance of a shorty as a PP goal.
I agree, it should be.

.............................[...net...]
Kunitz<.............>...............Crosby

...............................<.................. .....<........Neal



<.............Letang>..................<Malkin.... .............>


But really it should be two separate units.

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01-28-2013, 08:43 AM
  #302
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this is funny stuff here.....We need Shero to send a personal guarantee letter to Kirk that Gino will be signed..otherwise we better start collecting some pills...

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01-28-2013, 08:53 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Well, that possibility is a lot better than the alternative.

But, remember, he was playing for a guy who really was a hard *** with him in Paul Maurice. Not in a jerk kind of way. Rather, he expected excellence from Geno all over the ice, and he put Geno in a position to give him that. Bylsma's use for Geno begins and ends with offense.

By the way, I think you're right about how Bylsma is going to interpret tonight's game.

Anyway, did you see that too, not just a change, but that it really looked like he was going to go over the edge (again, not talking the 'pissed at the Flyers' type over the edge)?
Seriously, do you think Bylsma tells Geno to forget D and focus completely on O?

I can tell you that he doesn't have any different of a rule as far as defensive play for Geno as he does for Sid, Sutter, or Vitale. Sid and Geno both really like Dan so unless that changes he will be here.

On a side note, there is also a really good chance that he coaches the US Olympic team in 2014 if the NHL reaches a deal to continue to allow for NHL players to go to the Olympics. He is one of 2 under consideration. (Tortorella being the other).

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01-28-2013, 09:03 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
1. You're **** right I'm paranoid. Another one and done, no changes to the staff, if YOU were Geno, would you be in a rush to sign an extension this summer with, for example, your buddy Kovalchuk saying 'wouldn't it be fun if we played together'? That's why I'm paranoid. I just think this 'done deal, no question' attitude around here is incredibly myopic (but typical).

2. I'm not thrilled with the guy's demeanor (CV seemed to agree that it was worth watching). But, hey, Rowdy says all is well, so all is well.



Appreciated attempt at sarcasm notwithstanding, I think it will have a little more to do with how the Pens as a team fare this year. Another one and done, no changes . . . guy wants to win another cup badly.
A couple of things make think Geno leaving is somewhat unlikely...

1. He seems like a loyal guy and I dont think hes gonna run away from a tough situation. He might get frustrated but he expects to lead the way and not merely join an already great team, imo anyway.

2. He seems comfortable in Pittsburgh and im not sure he would really like to change his situation. I think he likes Sid being the face of the team, the only team where Geno wouldnt be.

3 Hes gonna get paid here.

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01-28-2013, 09:05 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by vodeni View Post
this is funny stuff here.....We need Shero to send a personal guarantee letter to Kirk that Gino will be signed..otherwise we better start collecting some pills...
Ah another person to exit late from the hyperbolic chamber.

1. Shero can't guarantee that. Nobody can . . . except for people like you and most others here who assume it's a fait accompli.

2. Keep that **** in another thread. My initial comment about Geno flipping last night was more about how it applied to coaching-- the need to get him under control-- than anything. For the most part, this has stayed a thread about all things coaching, with a few notable exceptions now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolffy66 View Post
A couple of things make think Geno leaving is somewhat unlikely...

1. He seems like a loyal guy and I dont think hes gonna run away from a tough situation. He might get frustrated but he expects to lead the way and not merely join an already great team, imo anyway.

2. He seems comfortable in Pittsburgh and im not sure he would really like to change his situation. I think he likes Sid being the face of the team, the only team where Geno wouldnt be.

3 Hes gonna get paid here.
See, here's what's funny about your post. I say 'I don't see it being 100% that he stays and here would be the reasons why', and a group of parrots (not you) starts balking ZOMG, KIRK SAYZ GENO LEAVING BECAUSE OF BYLSMA. Please tell me that I don't have to tell you too the difference between what I wrote and that.

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01-28-2013, 09:10 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
Seriously, do you think Bylsma tells Geno to forget D and focus completely on O?

I can tell you that he doesn't have any different of a rule as far as defensive play for Geno as he does for Sid, Sutter, or Vitale. Sid and Geno both really like Dan so unless that changes he will be here.

On a side note, there is also a really good chance that he coaches the US Olympic team in 2014 if the NHL reaches a deal to continue to allow for NHL players to go to the Olympics. He is one of 2 under consideration. (Tortorella being the other).
1. Yes, I absolutely think Bylsma's defensive expectations for Malkin are different than any other coach he's played for or what they'd be with 90% of the teams in the league. It speaks to coaches keeping players accountable.

2. I'm glad that Sid and Geno like Bylsma. I'm sure they like him every day of the year but one. Scotty Bowman's players used to say the opposite about him.

3. Yes, I'm glad Bylsma is a good coach. Lots of good coaches both in and out of the league. Is he the right one because he's a good one? Ken Hitchcock, IMO, is a good coach. He's been the right one in three places, and then the wrong one in two of them (he'll one day be the wrong one in STL too). I trust that isn't too complex to follow.

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01-28-2013, 10:32 AM
  #307
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I hated the idea of Neal on the point when I first heard it and I despise it even more now. He isn't Kovy.

You can't have a rover who isn't a great skater. It defies logic to put him there because he has a great shot.
I agree. It's 100% clear Neal should never be given the responsibility of distributing the puck on the PP. His neither a good enough skater nor or a good enough stick handler. He should have one and and only one role on the PP: get open and rip the puck.

Same with carrying the puck into the zone... he should never do it unless it's a broken play / he's stolen the puck away from someone. Honestly I think he should worry less about getting ripped with Gary Roberts at this point than spending the summers power-skating. That's what will enable him to take his game to another level, not getting huge. It's still important and he should continue to push himself physically, but his skating is the weakest part of his game IMO. He has a pretty awkward stride at times. Not BAD relative to other players his size, just the obvious weak point.

OTOH I saw Zach Kassian play over the holidays and for a big man he has awesome wheels / mobility. He could end up being pretty lethal playing with the Sedins. Doesn't have Neal's shot, but if Neal could learn to have Kassian's skating... nobody could hang with that line, even if they put speedy grinder out there as the third guy. Hell teams couldn't hang last year when it was Kunitz.

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01-28-2013, 11:01 AM
  #308
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Management needs to stop worrying about the coaching staff's ego and bring in a coach that can work the PP. If Bylsma doesn't like it, tough. He's had plenty of opportunities.

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01-28-2013, 11:04 AM
  #309
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I agree. It's 100% clear Neal should never be given the responsibility of distributing the puck on the PP. His neither a good enough skater nor or a good enough stick handler. He should have one and and only one role on the PP: get open and rip the puck.

Same with carrying the puck into the zone... he should never do it unless it's a broken play / he's stolen the puck away from someone. Honestly I think he should worry less about getting ripped with Gary Roberts at this point than spending the summers power-skating. That's what will enable him to take his game to another level, not getting huge. It's still important and he should continue to push himself physically, but his skating is the weakest part of his game IMO. He has a pretty awkward stride at times. Not BAD relative to other players his size, just the obvious weak point.

OTOH I saw Zach Kassian play over the holidays and for a big man he has awesome wheels / mobility. He could end up being pretty lethal playing with the Sedins. Doesn't have Neal's shot, but if Neal could learn to have Kassian's skating... nobody could hang with that line, even if they put speedy grinder out there as the third guy. Hell teams couldn't hang last year when it was Kunitz.
This is why I said I wanted Morrow playing with the big club, eventhough I know he hasn't "earned" it. Letang simply isn't a PP QB and there is no one on the big club or in the A who can do what he can for this PP.

I mean, Jesus, they are using Neal at the point. That screams of desperation. I'm trying to think of a PP decision like this that was so obviously doomed to failure. Why would you put your avg skating trigger man who lead your team in PP goals up high? It makes him much less dangerous for the PK unit, and makes him exploitable.

If they can't find a solution and Morrow keeps playing solid like he has the last few games, there is no harm bringing him up if an injury dictates it. At worst he shows he can't handle it, but as I keep saying, when they see what he does for their PP and transition game, they may prefer to live with his mistakes.

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01-28-2013, 11:15 AM
  #310
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I am 100% OK with them sitting Lovejoy and bringing Morrow up for a few games to experiment, or sitting Bortuzzo / whoever 7D is that night, and letting Morrow in on the PP only / big leads only.

I know he's had an up and down year in WBS and obviously if he's not able to handle the defensive side of the game you send him back after a couple nights with some things to focus on... but he'd be more valuable to this team just by being on the ice every PP, than Lovejoy is playing the whole game.

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01-28-2013, 11:24 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
DB has his work cut out for him and he needs to start with Malkin. The turnovers and bad penalties from him are happening every game.

Neal played a piss poor game managing the puck as well and Kunitz had another bad game. At what point does Kunitz get held accountable for his play? Some vet needs to be made an example of and Kunitz is the guy.

I'm a big Kunny fan, but DB has to send a message.
Amen... It seems like accountability for vets is not in Bylsma´s vocabulary though. There´s no words to describe how bad Kunitz has played in all the games so far

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01-28-2013, 11:26 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I am 100% OK with them sitting Lovejoy and bringing Morrow up for a few games to experiment, or sitting Bortuzzo / whoever 7D is that night, and letting Morrow in on the PP only / big leads only.

I know he's had an up and down year in WBS and obviously if he's not able to handle the defensive side of the game you send him back after a couple nights with some things to focus on... but he'd be more valuable to this team just by being on the ice every PP, than Lovejoy is playing the whole game.
I just had a bad feeling this PP would be a mess again and that is why I was strongly for having Morrow get a look there.

I'm not sure if Nisky is hurt, but Lovejoy would have to be put on waivers if not, to bring up Morrow.

I doubt Shero does that.

It will have to be a situation where a couple of blueliners go down, unfortunately.

Morrow just needs to keep playing solid and hopefully he gets his shot.

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01-28-2013, 11:28 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by BigBadBoris View Post
Amen... It seems like accountability for vets is not in Bylsma´s vocabulary though. There´s no words to describe how bad Kunitz has played in all the games so far
Kunitz won't get benched or demoted, trust me.

I'm not going to beat on DB like others are, but I'd be shocked if he starts holding his vets accountable.

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01-28-2013, 11:29 AM
  #314
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Edit: nevermind

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01-28-2013, 11:40 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Kunitz won't get benched or demoted, trust me.

I'm not going to beat on DB like others are, but I'd be shocked if he starts holding his vets accountable.
Yeah, I'm with you. Too bad there is a different set of standard for vets and rookies. With rookies, one should expect some mistakes and give them time to learn from it. Vets shouldn´t have that excuse to the same degree imo

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01-28-2013, 11:50 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
1. You're **** right I'm paranoid. Another one and done, no changes to the staff, if YOU were Geno, would you be in a rush to sign an extension this summer with, for example, your buddy Kovalchuk saying 'wouldn't it be fun if we played together'? That's why I'm paranoid. I just think this 'done deal, no question' attitude around here is incredibly myopic (but typical).

2. I'm not thrilled with the guy's demeanor (CV seemed to agree that it was worth watching). But, hey, Rowdy says all is well, so all is well.



Appreciated attempt at sarcasm notwithstanding, I think it will have a little more to do with how the Pens as a team fare this year. Another one and done, no changes . . . guy wants to win another cup badly.
If he leaves, it'll be because of money. It won't be for anything more or less.

His demeanor is what it's always been, and no amount of coaching or ego stroking is going to fix it. You saw it under Therrien, we see it under Bylsma and we'll see it under whatever other coach Evgeni Malkin plays for: When things aren't going his way, he gets angry and it manifests itself in pouting and/or taking penalties.

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01-28-2013, 12:06 PM
  #317
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Yeah, I'm with you. Too bad there is a different set of standard for vets and rookies. With rookies, one should expect some mistakes and give them time to learn from it. Vets shouldn´t have that excuse to the same degree imo
I like Kunitz, always have, but he is hurting the team. I don't expect guys like him to be sources of offense every night, so if he struggles like he is doing now, I'm ok with it. However, it is the mental mistakes he is making that need to stop.

He had two bad turnovers last night again. Once trying to stickhandle through three guys at the top of the blueline.... He had two boarding penalties in the same game (Tor) on the same damn guy. Seriously? Those kind of penalties can't happen. Then you combine all of the coverage mistakes, turnovers AND lack of offense, yet he never sits out a shift.

If Vitale played like that, Jeffrey would be back in and not a single person can deny it.

DB needs to start sending messages that ALL players who turn over the puck will be sitting at the far end and losing ice time.

It's like a virus when you keep letting this happen without accountability. Last night it was Neal, Sutter and Kunitz... Before that it was Cooke and Kunitz... etc. etc. Worst of all, Malkin and Crosby are turnover machines.

It's a troubling pattern affecting the entire team. No system is designed to account for this many turnovers. DB needs to start sending a message about accountability and that puck mismanagement won't be tolerated. Kunitz is an ideal guy to make his first example out of.

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01-28-2013, 01:11 PM
  #318
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Even if Morrow were called up due to injuries, you know he wouldn't get a shot with the Top PP. He's gotta pay his dues first...... or something.

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01-28-2013, 02:14 PM
  #319
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Ah another person to exit late from the hyperbolic chamber.

1. Shero can't guarantee that. Nobody can . . . except for people like you and most others here who assume it's a fait accompli.

2. Keep that **** in another thread. My initial comment about Geno flipping last night was more about how it applied to coaching-- the need to get him under control-- than anything. For the most part, this has stayed a thread about all things coaching, with a few notable exceptions now.



See, here's what's funny about your post. I say 'I don't see it being 100% that he stays and here would be the reasons why', and a group of parrots (not you) starts balking ZOMG, KIRK SAYZ GENO LEAVING BECAUSE OF BYLSMA. Please tell me that I don't have to tell you too the difference between what I wrote and that.
I din't think anyone took it literally, it was all in good spirit to perpetuate this hyperbole of yours and you got all excited. Too bad, anyhow, I personally don't need x and o's to figure out that what Bylsma putting out is not working and that he stubbornly refuses to adjust (like if on the first three pp they cannot set a single play, they cannot even bring the puck in, than maybe you change the players or do something differently)

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01-28-2013, 02:18 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I like Kunitz, always have, but he is hurting the team. I don't expect guys like him to be sources of offense every night, so if he struggles like he is doing now, I'm ok with it. However, it is the mental mistakes he is making that need to stop.

He had two bad turnovers last night again. Once trying to stickhandle through three guys at the top of the blueline.... He had two boarding penalties in the same game (Tor) on the same damn guy. Seriously? Those kind of penalties can't happen. Then you combine all of the coverage mistakes, turnovers AND lack of offense, yet he never sits out a shift.

If Vitale played like that, Jeffrey would be back in and not a single person can deny it.

DB needs to start sending messages that ALL players who turn over the puck will be sitting at the far end and losing ice time.

It's like a virus when you keep letting this happen without accountability. Last night it was Neal, Sutter and Kunitz... Before that it was Cooke and Kunitz... etc. etc. Worst of all, Malkin and Crosby are turnover machines.

It's a troubling pattern affecting the entire team. No system is designed to account for this many turnovers. DB needs to start sending a message about accountability and that puck mismanagement won't be tolerated. Kunitz is an ideal guy to make his first example out of.
It's not turnovers (that happens), but a total lack of what once made him a very good player, his physical presence, his ability to chip in and follow Sid's or Gino's lead, his forecheck, that's what I don't see...

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01-28-2013, 02:23 PM
  #321
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I like Disco and want him to succeed but its worth talking about. Who else is out there?

The first guy that comes to my mind is Ulfie. Whats his contract status with Modo?

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01-28-2013, 02:27 PM
  #322
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It's not turnovers (that happens), but a total lack of what once made him a very good player, his physical presence, his ability to chip in and follow Sid's or Gino's lead, his forecheck, that's what I don't see...
I can live with his lack of chemistry right now. You can still play solid, positional hockey, manage the puck well and not be a liability out there.

I can't forgive blowing routine assignments, turning the puck over and undisciplined penalties. That **** needs to be corrected. You can't always control when you are in a slump, but you can control everything else I just mentioned.

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01-28-2013, 02:34 PM
  #323
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I like Disco and want him to succeed but its worth talking about. Who else is out there?

The first guy that comes to my mind is Ulfie. Whats his contract status with Modo?
No one really. DB I think is the Pens longest tenured coach, right?

You win with consistency on the ice, but you need stability with the HC as well. That's why I want him to stay on. People were *****ing about MT and I remember my buddy saying DB is a hell of a coach after they won the Cup. I told him, just give it time and people will call for his head to... Same with the next guy and round and round we go.

DB wants his rookies to step up and take the bull by the horns, but he has to lead by example. He needs to start benching vets for poor play and become a better disciplinarian, because that is an obvious weakness he has. Very obvious.

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01-28-2013, 02:37 PM
  #324
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Marc Crawford is a big meh (think he's available).

Ron Wilson is a positively no (the ultimate underachieving coach).

uhhh... not sure. I wouldn't just look at former head coaches though. Look at other teams' assistant coaches who have been around for a while. That's the most likely source for a new outside guy to come in and help the team.

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01-28-2013, 02:47 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
No one really. DB I think is the Pens longest tenured coach, right?

You win with consistency on the ice, but you need stability with the HC as well. That's why I want him to stay on. People were *****ing about MT and I remember my buddy saying DB is a hell of a coach after they won the Cup. I told him, just give it time and people will call for his head to... Same with the next guy and round and round we go.

DB wants his rookies to step up and take the bull by the horns, but he has to lead by example. He needs to start benching vets for poor play and become a better disciplinarian, because that is an obvious weakness he has. Very obvious.
The problem is Jiggy, you and I both know what happens when you start benching vets. THAT is when the room starts turning on you, especially when as a "vet" you've earned the benefit of the doubt of more than a handful of games, especially under some very unique circumstances with the late start and no training camp.

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