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P.K. Subban Thread IX: 'Try to make this one last longer than a day' Edition

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01-28-2013, 08:01 AM
  #776
Davebo
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Originally Posted by ClasslessGuy View Post
If the 2.5-2.6 millions rumors are true and PK signs for that amount. We can't question his loyalty for this team.
I think that's fair to say. He should get a little more than that, though. I'd be OK with him getting up to 3.5/4.0 over 2 years, then after that we'll see if he gets the big contract.

Something that's occurred to me, though, is he might have to accept a slightly reduced workload as well, given how well the Habs D corps has stepped up, for the most part.

In any case he must be signed. Seeing those McDonagh commercials on the MSG channel last night made me steaming mad. We can't let another prospect go!

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01-28-2013, 08:01 AM
  #777
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Why should his loyalty be questioned in the first place?

His contract status is totally independent from his loyalty to the team...
In turn, if PK does really well on a 2 year deal, management can be loyal in return and reward him handsomely with a long-term, lucrative contract.

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01-28-2013, 08:01 AM
  #778
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At this point, even though I totally understand where PK is coming from...this isn't a battle he's going to win

I don't think the Bergevin is going to budge, and strangely as time has gone on, i've come to actually somewhat admire what he's doing. Also, they're not going to trade him...so PK has to start wondering if it's all worth it.

Sign the deal and you can start negotiating your next long term deal, if you choose to do so, 1 year from now.

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01-28-2013, 08:03 AM
  #779
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Let's compare RFAs with RFAs.

Cam Fowler: Five year, $4M per extension.
Victor Hedman: Five year, $3.5M per extension.
Luke Schenn: Five year, $3.6M per extension.
Drew Doughty: Eight year, $7M per extension.
Erik Johnson: Four year, $3.75M per extension.

Only one of those players are better than Subban. Guess which.
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I would add:

Tyler Myers: 7 years, $5.5M per cap hit
John Carlson: 6 years, $3.967M per

And then the counter-examples:

Dmitri Kulikov: 2 years, $2.5M
Michael Del Zotto: 2 years, $2.55M
Jamie McBain: 2 years, $1.8M
Zach Bogosian: 2 years, $2.5M

Ekman-Larsson and Pietrangelo are going to be significant new entries this summer. In the top list, not the counter-examples list.

In general, I think the Habs are undervaluing Subban's statistical comparables if they are putting him in the second group instead of the top group. There are slightly more examples of the top group... which to me makes sense, teams should *want* to lock up their top young players for as long as possible, and any UFA years they buy at a lower rate while the player is still getting better are going to be a sound investment in the long run. If you can get a guy to sign on the counter-examples list, great for you, but it seems like risky asset management to really go to war pushing your guy onto that list to me. The potential loss (young core player) outweighs the potential gain (couple million dollars on the cap), esp. for a wealthy building team IMHO.
Do you know if those players had the rights to arbitration?

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01-28-2013, 08:03 AM
  #780
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
What he means is if PK accepts this offer he's ready to get paid less to be a Habs.
That can be considered loyalty. It's not a bad thing
I don't think a players salary needs to be tied to his loyalty to his team...

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01-28-2013, 08:04 AM
  #781
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At this point, even though I totally understand where PK is coming from...this isn't a battle he's going to win

I don't think the Bergevin is going to budge, and strangely as time has gone on, i've come to actually somewhat admire what he's doing. Also, they're not going to trade him...so PK has to start wondering if it's all worth it.

Sign the deal and you can start negotiating your next long term deal, if you choose to do so, 1 year from now.
I completely agree. Sign the deal, be awesome and get the huge paycheck in a couple of years.
I

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01-28-2013, 08:06 AM
  #782
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I don't think a players salary needs to be tied to his loyalty to his team...
It's also called the hometown discount. In every profession, when you like you job, employer and where you live you are often willing to take a hit on your salary. It happens all the time, even in hockey. But it's a personal choice.

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01-28-2013, 08:08 AM
  #783
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It's also called the hometown discount. In every profession, when you like you job, employer and where you live you are often willing to take a hit on your salary. It happens all the time, even in hockey. But it's a personal choice.
I don't know how often it happens in correlation to players preferring to maximise their salary...I don't think that statement is truly accurate.

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01-28-2013, 08:09 AM
  #784
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Do you know if those players had the rights to arbitration?
Nobody does off their ELC, so the answer is no, they didn't have arbitration rights. Erik Johnson actually shouldn't be on the list... he would have had arbitration rights, but he actually had a bridge deal and then the one listed. So he should be off. There are probably a few other examples both sides of the ledger that somebody could dig up if they went at it systematically.

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01-28-2013, 08:09 AM
  #785
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
He's a RFA. He basically can't bolt. Habs own his rights. There's no need to pray right now.
If he signs 2 years, he'll be eligible for arbitration next time around. If they don't find an agreement and it goes to arbitration, Habs will have to match whatever he's entitled to or he becomes an UFA.

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01-28-2013, 08:09 AM
  #786
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
It's also called the hometown discount. In every profession, when you like you job, employer and where you live you are often willing to take a hit on your salary. It happens all the time, even in hockey. But it's a personal choice.
As you said, hometown discount is a personal choice by the player and should not be imposed to the player by the GM.

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01-28-2013, 08:10 AM
  #787
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So when are they meeting today?

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01-28-2013, 08:12 AM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Nobody does off their ELC, so the answer is no, they didn't have arbitration rights. Erik Johnson actually shouldn't be on the list... he would have had arbitration rights, but he actually had a bridge deal and then the one listed. So he should be off. There are probably a few other examples both sides of the ledger that somebody could dig up if they went at it systematically.
Thanks for the answer; to be honest I was expecting something like “Do the research yourself you lazy bum”!

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01-28-2013, 08:13 AM
  #789
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Dave Stubbs ‏@Dave_Stubbs
No decision need be made today RT @shannonmarnell: @Dave_Stubbs Any word on subban? Does he have to make a decision today?

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01-28-2013, 08:23 AM
  #790
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PK has no leverage and should probably sign the deal. However, I don't like the crap Bergevin pulled here. Good way to piss off your players. PK will have to make his money later. Hopefully he won't get run into the ground and be forced to defend himself to players on the ice, teammates and the media. Hope the org sticks up for him. The one thing I admired about Gainey. He stuck up for his guys.

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01-28-2013, 08:29 AM
  #791
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
PK has no leverage and should probably sign the deal. However, I don't like the crap Bergevin pulled here. Good way to piss off your players. PK will have to make his money later. Hopefully he won't get run into the ground and be forced to defend himself to players on the ice, teammates and the media. Hope the org sticks up for him. The one thing I admired about Gainey. He stuck up for his guys.
what crap?

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01-28-2013, 08:37 AM
  #792
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
PK has no leverage and should probably sign the deal. However, I don't like the crap Bergevin pulled here. Good way to piss off your players. PK will have to make his money later. Hopefully he won't get run into the ground and be forced to defend himself to players on the ice, teammates and the media. Hope the org sticks up for him. The one thing I admired about Gainey. He stuck up for his guys.
His leverage is he can go out and sign a carzy offer sheet that they will either have to match or lose him for picks. If he gets a 5 year 30 mil offer what do the Habs do? Then their lowball 2 yaer offer will really look moronic.

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01-28-2013, 08:40 AM
  #793
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
At this point, even though I totally understand where PK is coming from...this isn't a battle he's going to win

I don't think the Bergevin is going to budge, and strangely as time has gone on, i've come to actually somewhat admire what he's doing. Also, they're not going to trade him...so PK has to start wondering if it's all worth it.

Sign the deal and you can start negotiating your next long term deal, if you choose to do so, 1 year from now.
Not even, July and he can sign assuming he takes a 2 year deal

And I agree, Bergy isn't moving so if PK wants to play, he has no choice!

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01-28-2013, 08:41 AM
  #794
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His leverage is he can go out and sign a carzy offer sheet that they will either have to match or lose him for picks. If he gets a 5 year 30 mil offer what do the Habs do? Then their lowball 2 yaer offer will really look moronic.
Thats the thing about offer sheets...they have to get offered.

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01-28-2013, 08:41 AM
  #795
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
PK has no leverage and should probably sign the deal. However, I don't like the crap Bergevin pulled here. Good way to piss off your players. PK will have to make his money later. Hopefully he won't get run into the ground and be forced to defend himself to players on the ice, teammates and the media. Hope the org sticks up for him. The one thing I admired about Gainey. He stuck up for his guys.
No one in the Habs room seems pissed BTW

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01-28-2013, 08:49 AM
  #796
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Francois Gagnon ‏@GagnonFrancois
Bonne journée à tous et à toutes. Le PK watch continue. Je crois qu'il signera dans les prochaines heures (1 à 48). On reconnecte plus tard

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01-28-2013, 08:54 AM
  #797
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His leverage is he can go out and sign a carzy offer sheet that they will either have to match or lose him for picks. If he gets a 5 year 30 mil offer what do the Habs do? Then their lowball 2 yaer offer will really look moronic.
It's bad timing just after the lockout, however, to think that teams might go right back to poaching on other RFAs. Of course it's "allowed", and within the rules and everything, and of course NHL GMs/owners have not exactly had a stellar track record for holding to principles and trying to avoid making deals that affect league markets at the expense of their league brethren... but... I guess I'd still be surprised. Even if a team offered something more in the $4-5M per range, which seems like a huge bump from the Habs' offer, and which ought to be pretty good value to the offering team... I wonder if the climate is really right yet for teams to go that route?

If I was Meehan, I'd already have knocked on a few doors in that respect, though. He ought to have a good idea of whether GMs might consider it, or if it's just not going to happen in this immediate post-lockout climate. If it's not something that is going to be an option, more incentive for PK to sign the Habs' lowball deal. But if it really might be something teams would consider so soon, I'd start asking teams to submit their offers, then, grab whatever additional leverage is available.

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01-28-2013, 08:55 AM
  #798
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Francois Gagnon ‏@GagnonFrancois
Bonne journée à tous et à toutes. Le PK watch continue. Je crois qu'il signera dans les prochaines heures (1 à 48). On reconnecte plus tard
L'Abbe of La Presse and Brian Wilde have also tweeted similar thoughts this morning.

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01-28-2013, 08:55 AM
  #799
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Francois Gagnon ‏@GagnonFrancois
Bonne journée à tous et à toutes. Le PK watch continue. Je crois qu'il signera dans les prochaines heures (1 à 48). On reconnecte plus tard
Hmm. I'll believe when I see it but it gives me hope.

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01-28-2013, 08:56 AM
  #800
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Francois Gagnon ‏@GagnonFrancois
Bonne journée à tous et à toutes. Le PK watch continue. Je crois qu'il signera dans les prochaines heures (1 à 48). On reconnecte plus tard
hopefully he's right. And hopefully the crowd shows him a lot of love when he comes back, l'antichambre has been (obviously) on Bergevin's side on this whole issue I'm afraid some of the less hardcore fans will boo him as if he was just a greedy egocentric player.

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