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Trade Rumours and Proposals: Part XXXIII

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Old
01-27-2013, 01:57 PM
  #176
Pilgore88
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Originally Posted by General Granny View Post
Wasn't there a rumor last season that we had a deal with the Jets about Buff coming here but it didn't go through because the Jets weren't entirely honest about Buffs injury or that the Murrays found out he was injured and the Jets didn't tell them or something.
I can't ever recall any rumors regarding us and WPG regarding Bib Buff.

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01-27-2013, 02:00 PM
  #177
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I can't ever recall any rumors regarding us and WPG regarding Bib Buff.
That rumour was about Eric Fehr not Buff

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01-27-2013, 02:00 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by General Granny View Post
Wasn't there a rumor last season that we had a deal with the Jets about Buff coming here but it didn't go through because the Jets weren't entirely honest about Buffs injury or that the Murrays found out he was injured and the Jets didn't tell them or something.
Nope. Don't recall.

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01-27-2013, 02:01 PM
  #179
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Trade prospects + depth for RoR.
Trade Spezza for prospects + depth.

Win Cup.

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Old
01-27-2013, 02:03 PM
  #180
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Trade prospects + depth for RoR.
Trade Spezza for prospects + depth.

Win Cup.
Can't tell if serious...

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Old
01-27-2013, 02:07 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Healfezza View Post
What do you guys think of making a run at O'Reilly? Him and the Avs are having problems coming to terms on a contract and supposedly, according to our "credible" "journalist" Garrioch, he is being shopped at the moment. The Avs are apparently looking for a young center and 2nd round pick, although I could see the price being higher. Zibanejad+ could be good bait to land him, although would we feel comfortable filling the contract demands of O'Reilly (supposedly 5mil cap on term)?
I love O`Reilly but I`m not sure he fills our biggest need right now. If Murray was a little brighter he could simply have drafted O`Reilly with the the pick he wasted acquiring Chris Campoli.

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01-27-2013, 02:08 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
He's not a guy who openly looks for the big hit like Subban, no. And he's more of a puck mover than puck rusher but is overall a much more intelligent player.
I don't think Ceci is better than Subban in pretty much any facet of the game. I haven't seen a ton of Ceci but I have seen a ton of Subban, and his tools are amongst the best in the game. His execution isn't quite there, but if it was he'd be a top 5-10 dman in the league. Subban is an easy top 30 dman who is a huge momentum changer and impact maker. I'm not sure if you're saying Ceci could be as good as Subban, but if you are I think you're way, way off.

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01-27-2013, 02:28 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post


They'd probably ask for Ceci + Da Costa + Pageau (~1st, 2nd, 3rd) and maybe Gonchar for short term replacement.

I wouldn't make the deal because I could see this bite us in the ass real hard in a few years.
What in the ****?
You serious?

I would make that deal any day of the week and they won't ask for Dacosta, it would be Ceci+ Zibby+ Pageau.

You got a possible franchise #1 D and you are hesitant in giving up some futures that might or may not make the NHL.

Dacosta could just end up being another Butler, Winchester instead of Kunitz or Penner, I know Murray had some success with college guys but not here in Ottawa he hasn't yet.

Ceci is still only a prospect and hasn't proven anything yet.

Gonchar has 44 games left in his contract.

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01-27-2013, 02:37 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by General Granny View Post
Ceci is still only a prospect and hasn't proven anything yet.
You make this seem like a bad thing. "only a prospect and hasn't proven anything yet." describes every player ever at one point in their career.

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01-27-2013, 04:20 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
I don't think Ceci is better than Subban in pretty much any facet of the game. I haven't seen a ton of Ceci but I have seen a ton of Subban, and his tools are amongst the best in the game. His execution isn't quite there, but if it was he'd be a top 5-10 dman in the league. Subban is an easy top 30 dman who is a huge momentum changer and impact maker. I'm not sure if you're saying Ceci could be as good as Subban, but if you are I think you're way, way off.
I think Ceci's vision, agility and defensive awareness are better and project to be better. As was said...he's just a more intelligent player. Who knows though...they're both very young and could both develop a lot. I'd be willing to bet that Subban will never be at top 10 defenceman in the league.

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01-27-2013, 08:29 PM
  #186
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Who has more trade value? Peter Regin C the NHL player or Stephan Da Costa C the AHL player.

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01-27-2013, 08:42 PM
  #187
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Who has more trade value? Peter Regin C the NHL player or Stephan Da Costa C the AHL player.
Regin to a playoff team. Da Costa to a rebuilding team.

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Old
01-28-2013, 08:02 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by General Granny View Post
What in the ****?
You serious?

I would make that deal any day of the week and they won't ask for Dacosta, it would be Ceci+ Zibby+ Pageau.

You got a possible franchise #1 D and you are hesitant in giving up some futures that might or may not make the NHL.

Dacosta could just end up being another Butler, Winchester instead of Kunitz or Penner, I know Murray had some success with college guys but not here in Ottawa he hasn't yet.

Ceci is still only a prospect and hasn't proven anything yet.

Gonchar has 44 games left in his contract.
You're really not looking at the big picture.

We already have a #1D franchise defenseman and not only I don't think Subban is one (he is a #2 IMO and will always be... ice-time doesn't matter), but there isn't enough space for his ego/attitude on the team. I think he has that superstar syndrome that wouldn't mesh well with the humility of guys like Spezza, Alfredsson, Phillips, Neil...

If we'd trade for Subban, we'd also have to sign him and start paying him over 5.0 (he has like 3-4 RFA years left). With Del Zotto and Kulikov recent signings, is he really worth that already? Sure, we paid Gonchar the same but he is a proven veteran on a short term UFA contract. Nature of the beast for Ottawa and UFAs, we have to offer good money to attract UFAs.

So, if Montreal of all places (one of the richest teams in the NHL) don't want to pay Subban that amount, why would Ottawa of all places (one of the smaller markets, has to be cautious with money) do? Can you explain it to me?

In my proposal, Gonchar is to even out salaries and he would replace Subban in Montreal this year. A first PP of Markov-Gonchar would certainly interest them. PP is the way they win games here.

That being said, they'd be very high on Da Costa and Pageau, not only for the french connection but that's 2 high skill guys they could develop and who could even work out better in Montreal's system rather than ours (see Desharnais for example). They really wanted to draft Pageau but we did just before them at 96th... They had the 97th pick and none since the 17th overall. They were really high on him, and in retrospect should have moved up in the draft

And please don't act like Da Costa is a nothing prospect. He has a very high skill level and creativity. This guy could easily boom. As for his defensive game, it's very underrated, he has a high-end take-away ability

Finally, same for Ceci, drafted 15th overall but the guy was Top-5 on Ottawa's list and that's what matters the most. Sens are really high on him and won't give him up easily.

It's not because he isn't setting the world of hockey on fire right after being drafted that he is losing value... Ceci has the chance to become a high-end D-man, like Subban. Even if he doesn't, he is a safe bet to develop into a quality top-4 at least.

I give the Sens the benefit of the doubt concerning drafting and development, and I guess you really should do the same.

In summary :

- Gonchar (high cap hit but only this year, works for them), replaces most of Subban's contributions except the physical play
- Cody Ceci : his value to us is at least a top-10 pick
- Da Costa : his value is probably better than a 2nd round pick, at least it should be. I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a mid first.
- Pageau : his value to us is at least a 3rd, maybe more since he is developping nicely.

Maybe it's not the best package Montreal could get for Subban, but from our point of view, it's the most we should offer. Rebuilding teams can't afford to give too much... Ceci + Zibanejad could really bite us in the ass, Montreal is in the same division


Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Zibanejad

Yikes

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Old
01-28-2013, 08:28 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Hale The Villain View Post
This fanbase is terrible when it comes to valuing other teams players. Most fans around here also tremendously overrate our prospects and the value they have around the league.
lol...you're describing EVERY "fan base" not just this one...every fan base has about 80% of people in it.. that think their 15th ranked prospect is worth more than the other teams 2nd ranked prospect or their back up goalie is worth more than every other teams #3 or 4 defensemen... just.... because

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Old
01-28-2013, 08:32 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
You're really not looking at the big picture.

We already have a #1D franchise defenseman and not only I don't think Subban is one (he is a #2 IMO and will always be... ice-time doesn't matter), but there isn't enough space for his ego/attitude on the team. I think he has that superstar syndrome that wouldn't mesh well with the humility of guys like Spezza, Alfredsson, Phillips, Neil...

If we'd trade for Subban, we'd also have to sign him and start paying him over 5.0 (he has like 3-4 RFA years left). With Del Zotto and Kulikov recent signings, is he really worth that already? Sure, we paid Gonchar the same but he is a proven veteran on a short term UFA contract. Nature of the beast for Ottawa and UFAs, we have to offer good money to attract UFAs.

So, if Montreal of all places (one of the richest teams in the NHL) don't want to pay Subban that amount, why would Ottawa of all places (one of the smaller markets, has to be cautious with money) do? Can you explain it to me?

In my proposal, Gonchar is to even out salaries and he would replace Subban in Montreal this year. A first PP of Markov-Gonchar would certainly interest them. PP is the way they win games here.

That being said, they'd be very high on Da Costa and Pageau, not only for the french connection but that's 2 high skill guys they could develop and who could even work out better in Montreal's system rather than ours (see Desharnais for example). They really wanted to draft Pageau but we did just before them at 96th... They had the 97th pick and none since the 17th overall. They were really high on him, and in retrospect should have moved up in the draft

And please don't act like Da Costa is a nothing prospect. He has a very high skill level and creativity. This guy could easily boom. As for his defensive game, it's very underrated, he has a high-end take-away ability

Finally, same for Ceci, drafted 15th overall but the guy was Top-5 on Ottawa's list and that's what matters the most. Sens are really high on him and won't give him up easily.

It's not because he isn't setting the world of hockey on fire right after being drafted that he is losing value... Ceci has the chance to become a high-end D-man, like Subban. Even if he doesn't, he is a safe bet to develop into a quality top-4 at least.

I give the Sens the benefit of the doubt concerning drafting and development, and I guess you really should do the same.

In summary :

- Gonchar (high cap hit but only this year, works for them), replaces most of Subban's contributions except the physical play
- Cody Ceci : his value to us is at least a top-10 pick
- Da Costa : his value is probably better than a 2nd round pick, at least it should be. I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a mid first.
- Pageau : his value to us is at least a 3rd, maybe more since he is developping nicely.

Maybe it's not the best package Montreal could get for Subban, but from our point of view, it's the most we should offer. Rebuilding teams can't afford to give too much... Ceci + Zibanejad could really bite us in the ass, Montreal is in the same division


Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Zibanejad

Yikes
You raise a very good point about meshing with the team. I don't know enough about Subban (sometimes I wonder if its a media agenda). We do have a humble, hardworking team and he could upset that.

But he's also a tremendous talent and the thought of he and/or Karlsson on the ice for 50 minutes of a game is pretty salivating. That would be a tough team to play against.

Doubt it even gets considered from either team though (but fun to discuss nonetheless)

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Old
01-28-2013, 09:16 AM
  #191
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About Subban

I believe McLean has a way with players to conform to his system. He would have to prove his character he's not a problem to his new team.

Being traded is also a humbling experience, at least for a few weeks Subban would stay quiet and listen to the Sens leaders (Neil, Alfie, Phillips, Spezza, Gonchar) which are more influential than MTL's at the moment.

Montreal haven't taken care of their youngster in the last years.

About MTL will all their wealth: Sens will have to reach the cap floor next year, signing Subban or any 5, 6M defenseman is not a problem.
Cowen won't make a lot of $$ on his next contract because of this year injury.

I don't believe Gonchar is not a good fit for MTL this year, they are rebuilding/tweeking. Ceci is nice but won't be ready for a couple years. Because it's MTL, they're looking to make the playoffs every year, I would think MTL would take Wiercioch before Gonchar at this point.

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01-28-2013, 09:22 AM
  #192
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Having Karlsson and Subban on the ice can really bite Montreal's ass.

Once again HF over values prospects over NHL players.

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01-28-2013, 09:30 AM
  #193
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To Ottawa: PK Subban
To Montreal: Mika Zibanejad, Simon Despres
To Pittsburgh: Ottawa's 1st in 2013, Gonchar


Last edited by Qward: 01-28-2013 at 09:54 AM. Reason: forgot to add gonchar
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01-28-2013, 09:50 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by OgieO View Post
You raise a very good point about meshing with the team. I don't know enough about Subban (sometimes I wonder if its a media agenda). We do have a humble, hardworking team and he could upset that.

But he's also a tremendous talent and the thought of he and/or Karlsson on the ice for 50 minutes of a game is pretty salivating. That would be a tough team to play against.

Doubt it even gets considered from either team though (but fun to discuss nonetheless)
Yes and a big part of me WANT Subban on the team but I think the asking price from Montreal (particulary since same division), the money we will have to pay him and the "space" he would take on this team are big factors to consider

To be noted, I don't think that Ceci + Da Costa + Pageau + Gonchar is near the Montreal's asking price.

It would probably be something ridiculous. That being said, I think that package has a lot of value to us and very good value to them, but still not exactly what they'd want for Subban.

Subban + 5th round pick

for

Gonchar + Ceci + Pageau + Da Costa + 1st

Is what they'd probably want if I am guessing.

Of course they could target many of our other prospects like Noesen, Stone and Zibanejad... but trading Zibanejad to them would be a mistake IMO

They are playing well actually and it doesn't seem like they miss Subban that much with Markov back to top-form


Quote:
Originally Posted by General Granny View Post
Having Karlsson and Subban on the ice can really bite Montreal's ass.

Once again HF over values prospects over NHL players.
Same could be said for every move that includes actual players vs prospects... but most of the time it finally bites the team getting the actual player in the ass.

Is Kessel's move a good example?

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Old
01-28-2013, 10:22 AM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Yes and a big part of me WANT Subban on the team but I think the asking price from Montreal (particulary since same division), the money we will have to pay him and the "space" he would take on this team are big factors to consider

To be noted, I don't think that Ceci + Da Costa + Pageau + Gonchar is near the Montreal's asking price.

It would probably be something ridiculous. That being said, I think that package has a lot of value to us and very good value to them, but still not exactly what they'd want for Subban.

Subban + 5th round pick

for

Gonchar + Ceci + Pageau + Da Costa + 1st

Is what they'd probably want if I am guessing.

Of course they could target many of our other prospects like Noesen, Stone and Zibanejad... but trading Zibanejad to them would be a mistake IMO

They are playing well actually and it doesn't seem like they miss Subban that much with Markov back to top-form




Same could be said for every move that includes actual players vs prospects... but most of the time it finally bites the team getting the actual player in the ass.

Is Kessel's move a good example?
Kessel's experiment went bad because TML didn't expect to be a lottery team.

There are many examples that the team getting the best player end up with the most value in the trade.

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01-28-2013, 10:45 AM
  #196
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Montreal will sign Subban 90% sure which diesn't mean much xD. there's not even really rumors about them even shopping him.

The only rumor involving sens is for Y Weber.

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01-28-2013, 11:00 AM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Yes and a big part of me WANT Subban on the team but I think the asking price from Montreal (particulary since same division), the money we will have to pay him and the "space" he would take on this team are big factors to consider

To be noted, I don't think that Ceci + Da Costa + Pageau + Gonchar is near the Montreal's asking price.

It would probably be something ridiculous. That being said, I think that package has a lot of value to us and very good value to them, but still not exactly what they'd want for Subban.

Subban + 5th round pick

for

Gonchar + Ceci + Pageau + Da Costa + 1st

Is what they'd probably want if I am guessing.

Of course they could target many of our other prospects like Noesen, Stone and Zibanejad... but trading Zibanejad to them would be a mistake IMO

They are playing well actually and it doesn't seem like they miss Subban that much with Markov back to top-form




Same could be said for every move that includes actual players vs prospects... but most of the time it finally bites the team getting the actual player in the ass.

Is Kessel's move a good example?
No offense but Montreal is in a rebuild if they move a Subban they are going to want a Cowen coming back, not a Gonchar plus.

You may think in a rebuild you need to stock the shelves. But you do that by trading away older vets to win now teams, not by trading away young proven minute eating RFA's for another teams prospects.

If you move a good top 2 damn their ginna want something significant back.

And that's why we are never gonna get him.

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01-28-2013, 11:45 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by General Granny View Post
Once again HF over values prospects over NHL players.
Just like when Montreal decided it wanted a quick fix and decided to trade for Gomez instead of keeping youth.

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01-28-2013, 11:49 AM
  #199
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Still talking about subban to ottawa? Yawn

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:51 AM
  #200
Qward
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You've been a member for 4 1/2 years, you should know by now how it works around here.

Shiny toy until toy resigns with previous club, look for next shiny toy.

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