HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

P.K. Subban Thread IX: 'Try to make this one last longer than a day' Edition

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-28-2013, 08:59 AM
  #801
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,364
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
L'Abbe of La Presse and Brian Wilde have also tweeted similar thoughts this morning.
If I was tweeting, I would too. I just think that PK loves the Habs too much and wants to play too badly. There isn't even as much incentive in a fixed players' share universe to go too far down the road in arguing that he's fighting for the salaries of players coming after him. When the players have the same pot of money no matter what, the idea that a player can hold out for top dollar and help out those who come after isn't the same... PK getting $5M would indeed help a few others get bigger numbers. But all at the ultimate expense of everybody else's paycheque.

It's pretty easy to speculate that PK will cave and take the Habs' offer.

Blind Gardien is online now  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:00 AM
  #802
ClasslessGuy
Registered User
 
ClasslessGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St-Jean, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,272
vCash: 500
Pk will probably get a standing O

ClasslessGuy is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:01 AM
  #803
Bloumeister
Certifiable
 
Bloumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: in a padded cell
Posts: 5,736
vCash: 500
Really? Today's the day?




Bloumeister is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:01 AM
  #804
FinnHab
Registered User
 
FinnHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: overseas...
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,203
vCash: 500
Hopefully this soap opera is soon over. If he signs with Habs, i cant wait Therrien`s impact on Subbans game.

FinnHab is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:06 AM
  #805
BaseballCoach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,883
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Thing is: Bergevin values "character".

That's why both Prust and Moen both got fabulous contracts.
That's why he had a mancrush on Shane Doan in the summer, even as the superior Alexander Semin was available, or Jaromir Jagr the legitimate 1-year option.

And that may be why he doesn't want Subban in the organization.
If you like true character and not meek sheep, then Subban should be high on your list.

BaseballCoach is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:08 AM
  #806
Znthnk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 85
vCash: 500
I think PK will sign before the next habs game starts on Tuesday. If he stalls on the opportunity to join a currently exciting team that's having a terrific start, my opinion of him will erode accordingly.

The Habs are a team that spend to close to the cap. Giving PK the bank longterm takes away flexibility for compensating other players accordingly, like Markov, Emelin and Diaz in 2014-15. While many would argue that PK is better than all the D mentioned above, I would prefer a good defensive corps, and think those players can help. If any of those players dip in performance, PK will get a higher proportion.

I think many forget that any overpayment PK gets, is money unavailable to retain other players. Also the cap is lowering, so cap management becomes crucial.

Znthnk is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:15 AM
  #807
Znthnk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 85
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusBouillon View Post
hopefully he's right. And hopefully the crowd shows him a lot of love when he comes back, l'antichambre has been (obviously) on Bergevin's side on this whole issue I'm afraid some of the less hardcore fans will boo him as if he was just a greedy egocentric player.
The fans forgave the players quickly after the lockout. I have little doubt the fans will put this PK holdout saga behind them considering the contribution PK will add to the team. I think he'll be quickly forgiven.

Znthnk is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:16 AM
  #808
HabsProspectsExpert
Artturi Lehkonen
 
HabsProspectsExpert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 516
vCash: 500
My prediction: 7.5/2 years coming tomorrow

HabsProspectsExpert is online now  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:17 AM
  #809
DenverHabsFan
Registered User
 
DenverHabsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 1,305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
In turn, if PK does really well on a 2 year deal, management can be loyal in return and reward him handsomely with a long-term, lucrative contract.
But that's why that bridge to nowhere stance is retarded. If you're building a contender, you need the core locked up at a reasonable long-term cap hit. As it is, we're just going to get a bargain for two years and then pay a lot more for PK's longer contract. Why not try to have all your young core players signed for multiple years at the lowest possible cap hit? What's strange is that the Hawks have their core all on long contracts and that's why they've been a force for a few years and many more so why is MB being so principled here? We're essentially going to pay 2/5M and then 8/56M instead of signing him to 5/25M now and have a better idea of our cap situation for the next five years.

DenverHabsFan is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:24 AM
  #810
LaTenderness
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 626
vCash: 500
Are we there yet
Are we there yet

LaTenderness is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:25 AM
  #811
Znthnk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 85
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
What's strange is that the Hawks have their core all on long contracts and that's why they've been a force for a few years and many more so why is MB being so principled here?
MB has doubts about PK that will be clarified by a short term contract. Considering that MB was part of a team that gave long term contracts to young players, makes me take those doubts seriously. The organization has compensated Price, Pacioretty and Gorges handsomely after the bridge deal. I don't see why Subban should doubt he'll be compensated appropiately after those two years.

Znthnk is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:25 AM
  #812
Bask
Embellishing User
 
Bask's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Montréal
Posts: 3,469
vCash: 500
it gets a little more awkward every day, even more since we're winning...

Bask is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:27 AM
  #813
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,619
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Znthnk View Post
MB has doubts about PK that will be clarified by a short term contract. Considering that MB was part of a team that gave long term contracts to young players, makes me take those doubts seriously. The organization has compensated Price, Pacioretty and Gorges handsomely after the bridge deal. I don't see why Subban should doubt he'll be compensated appropiately after those two years.
Because it's already disingenuous to compare him to those three (two of who were coming off very serious injuries when they signed their bridge deals), so why should he show faith in the organization if they are implying his performance last year was on par with a guy who tore his acl, a guy who broke his neck and a guy who lost his job to Halak?

Et le But is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:29 AM
  #814
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 22,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
In turn, if PK does really well on a 2 year deal, management can be loyal in return and reward him handsomely with a long-term, lucrative contract.
It'll be very interesting to see what the totals are if he signs.

2.5M for PK isn't a hometown discount, guys like Plekanec and Markov were said to have taken discounts. But on Markov's 2nd deal, he got the same amount despite being a huge question mark. Last year he got paid 5.75M and barely played. No hometown discount on his current deal. Plekanec at 5M isn't much of a discount, but more so of a fair value. He didn't go on the open market so he didn't get overpaid, but he got fair value. Price didn't take a discount. Neither did Gorges.
MaxPac is the only guy but he signed an extension a year into his bridge deal, and in retrospect, it might have been a smart move by him as he's already expected to miss 1/4 of the year. If he doesn't have a great year, he wouldn't have touched as much as he did imo.
PK would sign for 3M less than what he wanted. That's huge. Also, discounts are forced upon you.

To me, Bergevin has one main reason for giving PK a bridge deal. First, I don't think he wants to be tied to a contract with a guy that can rub people the wrong way. I just don't think he wants to take that risk and have to deal with such a problem. Even if that problem is way overblown. It's the only thing that makes sense considering PK said Bergevin didn't have a problem with any of the comparable Meehan brought forward. Problem isn't on the ice, or the value, it's the doubt about the chemistry with the rest of his teammates.
A side reason could also be that he's actually trying to protect PK, and himself. In his 3rd year only, if PK came in with a 5.5M price tag and struggled, both would get a lot of heat.
So, maybe he figures it's better for the kid to take a smaller deal, lay a bit lower, less pressure, and in 2years, they can renegotiate.
Could be. Only saying this because I watched 24 CH. Him and Therrien seem very focused on rebuilding this team patiently through kids. I have a hard time believing PK isn't part of their plans. But they way they spoke to Galchenyuk, to relax, no stress, and enjoy himself, makes me think they don't want to throw kids in bad situations.
So, despite what PK has done for his age, I think they might feel that taking a step back, relaxing, getting a bit less ice time and perfecting some parts of his game might be the best way to go. And you can't do that with a guy that is paid #1-2 dollars and expected to be the best.

At least, this is what I'm hoping for. It is a much different approach to the ''PK vs Management'' war that has been painted by media and fans where both sides are being selfish. It's more about looking out for what's best for everybody.

I still don't necessarily agree with this. I rather lock him up long term now at a cheaper price than in 2 years, because I have no doubt as to how good he'll become. But at least I can see some logical reasoning behind if this is actually the idea.


Last edited by Kriss E: 01-28-2013 at 09:35 AM.
Kriss E is online now  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:30 AM
  #815
jwolf
Registered User
 
jwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 573
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsProspectsExpert View Post
My prediction: 7.5/2 years coming tomorrow
Sounds like a reasonable compromise. If it's 2 years, it might be a little less. I'm still hoping we lock him up for a little longer than that. Maybe 5 years at 4,5M per.

jwolf is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:32 AM
  #816
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 22,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
L'Abbe of La Presse and Brian Wilde have also tweeted similar thoughts this morning.
I would say that too considering PK said he expects to be back on the ice soon when he was at the charity event Saturday.

Kriss E is online now  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:33 AM
  #817
LaTenderness
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
But that's why that bridge to nowhere stance is retarded. If you're building a contender, you need the core locked up at a reasonable long-term cap hit. As it is, we're just going to get a bargain for two years and then pay a lot more for PK's longer contract. Why not try to have all your young core players signed for multiple years at the lowest possible cap hit? What's strange is that the Hawks have their core all on long contracts and that's why they've been a force for a few years and many more so why is MB being so principled here? We're essentially going to pay 2/5M and then 8/56M instead of signing him to 5/25M now and have a better idea of our cap situation for the next five years.
It ain't about paper it's about principals.

I want the same thing as you Subban locked up for as long as possible but I do see where MB stands. He can't put PK above the team and u gotta respect what PAC and Cowboy went thru.

LaTenderness is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:34 AM
  #818
pepperMonkey
Registered User
 
pepperMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,401
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Znthnk View Post
I think PK will sign before the next habs game starts on Tuesday. If he stalls on the opportunity to join a currently exciting team that's having a terrific start, my opinion of him will erode accordingly.

The Habs are a team that spend to close to the cap. Giving PK the bank longterm takes away flexibility for compensating other players accordingly, like Markov, Emelin and Diaz in 2014-15. While many would argue that PK is better than all the D mentioned above, I would prefer a good defensive corps, and think those players can help. If any of those players dip in performance, PK will get a higher proportion.

I think many forget that any overpayment PK gets, is money unavailable to retain other players. Also the cap is lowering, so cap management becomes crucial.
You are only thinking short term, as in the next two years. Assuming he continues to play the way he has the last two years, or more likely, play better, whatever savings you get in the next two years would be blasted and the Habs will end up paying more long term. So which is more important? Short term savings or long term savings? Besides, 4-5mill is only overpayment if he regresses in the next two years.

pepperMonkey is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:35 AM
  #819
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 19,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
It'll be very interesting to see what the totals are if he signs.

2.5M for PK isn't a hometown discount, guys like Plekanec and Markov were said to have taken discounts. But on Markov's 2nd deal, he got the same amount despite being a huge question mark. Last year he got paid 5.75M and barely played. No hometown discount on his current deal. Plekanec at 5M isn't much of a discount, but more so of a fair value. He didn't go on the open market so he didn't get overpaid, but he got fair value. Price didn't take a discount. Neither did Gorges.
MaxPac is the only guy but he signed an extension a year into his bridge deal, and in retrospect, it might have been a smart move by him as he's already expected to miss 1/4 of the year. If he doesn't have a great year, he wouldn't have touched as much as he did imo.
PK would sign for 3M less than what he wanted. That's huge. Also, discounts are forced upon you.

To me, Bergevin has one main reason for giving PK a bridge deal. First, I don't think he wants to be tied to a contract with a guy that can rub people the wrong way. I just don't think he wants to take that risk and have to deal with such a problem. Even if that problem is way overblown. It's the only thing that makes sense considering PK said Bergevin didn't have a problem with any of the comparable Meehan brought forward. Problem isn't on the ice, or the value, it's the doubt about the chemistry with the rest of his teammates.
A side reason could also be that he's actually trying to protect PK. In his 3rd year only, if PK came in with a 5.5M price tag and struggled, he would get a lot of heat.
So, maybe he figures it's better for the kid to take a smaller deal, lay a bit lower, less pressure, and in 2years, they can renegotiate.
Could be. Only saying this because I watched 24 CH. Him and Therrien seem very focused on rebuilding this team patiently through kids. I have a hard time believing PK isn't part of their plans. But they way they spoke to Galchenyuk, to relax, no stress, and enjoy himself, makes me think they don't want to throw kids in bad situations.
So, despite what PK has done for his age, I think they might feel that taking a step back, relaxing, getting a bit less ice time and perfecting some parts of his game might be the best way to go. And you can't do that with a guy that is paid #1-2 dollars and expected to be the best.

At least, this is what I'm hoping for. It is a much different approach to the ''PK vs Management'' war that has been painted by media and fans.

I still don't necessarily agree with this. I rather lock him up long term now at a cheaper price than in 2 years, because I have no doubt as to how good he'll become. But at least I can see some logical reasoning behind if this is actually the idea.
Same here...as the days have passed and as I believe this will come to an end soon with PK signing a 2 year deal. I'm starting to understand more and more why this actually might be the best thing for all parties involved.

417 is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:36 AM
  #820
Bloumeister
Certifiable
 
Bloumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: in a padded cell
Posts: 5,736
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
But that's why that bridge to nowhere stance is retarded. If you're building a contender, you need the core locked up at a reasonable long-term cap hit. As it is, we're just going to get a bargain for two years and then pay a lot more for PK's longer contract. Why not try to have all your young core players signed for multiple years at the lowest possible cap hit? What's strange is that the Hawks have their core all on long contracts and that's why they've been a force for a few years and many more so why is MB being so principled here? We're essentially going to pay 2/5M and then 8/56M instead of signing him to 5/25M now and have a better idea of our cap situation for the next five years.
I don't mind the bridge contract, especially since this year will be prorated to approximately 40 games for PK - depending on when he signs... if he signs... Essentially, it's a 1.5 year contract. But the rumored 2.5mil/per is retarded. It's OK for Bergevin to offer a brigde contract to PK' UFA, but the offer should be bringing the two sides together. Isn't this what a bridge is for?

Bloumeister is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:36 AM
  #821
pepperMonkey
Registered User
 
pepperMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,401
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaTenderness View Post
It ain't about paper it's about principals.

I want the same thing as you Subban locked up for as long as possible but I do see where MB stands. He can't put PK above the team and u gotta respect what PAC and Cowboy went thru.
Sorry, the principals should be to do what's best for the team. Now, unless bridge contracts are ALWAYS best for the team, it shouldn't be a principal to live and die on.

pepperMonkey is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:37 AM
  #822
ClasslessGuy
Registered User
 
ClasslessGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St-Jean, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,272
vCash: 500
Subban watch on twitter. Apparently Omark & a 3rd is too much for Subban.

ClasslessGuy is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:38 AM
  #823
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 22,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Same here...as the days have passed and as I believe this will come to an end soon with PK signing a 2 year deal. I'm starting to understand more and more why this actually might be the best thing for all parties involved.
Well, this is assuming that what we said was the reason.
If the reason is because Bergevin isn't sold on PK's development, then it's a whole other story.

Kriss E is online now  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:38 AM
  #824
Znthnk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 85
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Because it's already disingenuous to compare him to those three (two of who were coming off very serious injuries when they signed their bridge deals), so why should he show faith in the organization if they are implying his performance last year was on par with a guy who tore his acl, a guy who broke his neck and a guy who lost his job to Halak?
Because those players got compensated well despite those difficulties. If anything is should reassure him that should he isn't taking that much of a risk should he have a dip due to injury. And those "guys" are currently an important part of the team. PK can be part of that team. I think he'll sign Tuesday latest.

Znthnk is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 09:43 AM
  #825
Bloumeister
Certifiable
 
Bloumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: in a padded cell
Posts: 5,736
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
It'll be very interesting to see what the totals are if he signs.

2.5M for PK isn't a hometown discount, guys like Plekanec and Markov were said to have taken discounts. But on Markov's 2nd deal, he got the same amount despite being a huge question mark. Last year he got paid 5.75M and barely played. No hometown discount on his current deal. Plekanec at 5M isn't much of a discount, but more so of a fair value. He didn't go on the open market so he didn't get overpaid, but he got fair value. Price didn't take a discount. Neither did Gorges.
MaxPac is the only guy but he signed an extension a year into his bridge deal, and in retrospect, it might have been a smart move by him as he's already expected to miss 1/4 of the year. If he doesn't have a great year, he wouldn't have touched as much as he did imo.
PK would sign for 3M less than what he wanted. That's huge. Also, discounts are forced upon you.

To me, Bergevin has one main reason for giving PK a bridge deal. First, I don't think he wants to be tied to a contract with a guy that can rub people the wrong way. I just don't think he wants to take that risk and have to deal with such a problem. Even if that problem is way overblown. It's the only thing that makes sense considering PK said Bergevin didn't have a problem with any of the comparable Meehan brought forward. Problem isn't on the ice, or the value, it's the doubt about the chemistry with the rest of his teammates.
A side reason could also be that he's actually trying to protect PK, and himself. In his 3rd year only, if PK came in with a 5.5M price tag and struggled, both would get a lot of heat.
So, maybe he figures it's better for the kid to take a smaller deal, lay a bit lower, less pressure, and in 2years, they can renegotiate.
Could be. Only saying this because I watched 24 CH. Him and Therrien seem very focused on rebuilding this team patiently through kids. I have a hard time believing PK isn't part of their plans. But they way they spoke to Galchenyuk, to relax, no stress, and enjoy himself, makes me think they don't want to throw kids in bad situations.
So, despite what PK has done for his age, I think they might feel that taking a step back, relaxing, getting a bit less ice time and perfecting some parts of his game might be the best way to go. And you can't do that with a guy that is paid #1-2 dollars and expected to be the best.

At least, this is what I'm hoping for. It is a much different approach to the ''PK vs Management'' war that has been painted by media and fans where both sides are being selfish. It's more about looking out for what's best for everybody.

I still don't necessarily agree with this. I rather lock him up long term now at a cheaper price than in 2 years, because I have no doubt as to how good he'll become. But at least I can see some logical reasoning behind if this is actually the idea.
Sums up my thoughts on this perfectly... although I do have doubts about PK's ceiling. But since the kid's a thoroughbred, I'm hopeful that he'll reach his full bawse potential.

Bloumeister is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:37 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.