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01-25-2013, 06:23 AM
  #126
Rangerboy030
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I echo the sentiments of some other posters that probably the biggest problem with our PP is the lack of movement by the players; everyone goes to a set point on the ice and stays there, passing the puck around without trying to open holes in the PK's box by skating.

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01-25-2013, 06:32 AM
  #127
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I said yesterday, the PP was going to cost us the game.

Yesterdays performance was pathetic, I'm disgusted with what they are doing.

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01-25-2013, 08:18 AM
  #128
silverfish
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Put Stralman on the point on the 5 on 3, that's a start.

Definitely needs to be more movement.

This is the best Rangers goal scored on the power play that I can remember for quite some time...



McCabe is the catalyst here, by walking the point with the puck (something that Del Zotto never does) he gets the Flyers out of their PK shape, everything falls to ****, and Callahan has an easy goal set up by Prospal.

You see the key here is everyone that touches the puck IS MOVING WITH IT.

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01-25-2013, 08:27 AM
  #129
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They have to separate Del Zotto and Richards. Both are QB's, and you cannot operate an effective PP with two guys running the show. Especially when one of them is a kid that is constantly differing to the veteran. They need to replace DZ on the first unit with McDonagh or Stralman. Someone who has a no-nonsense shot from the point.

Secondly, they need a threat to shoot from the left side -- i.e., a righty on his off-wing. Stepan is a phenomenal passer, but his release is slow and he has no one-timer in his bag. Let him run the show on the second unit along with Del Zotto. Those two actually have chemistry together.

Lastly, force players to move. Too many people spending the entire PP in the same 5 foot radius -- that's assuming we can keep the puck in the offensive zone at all.

I'm also of the believe that Tortorella's constant line-juggling has a negative effect on the PP. Most of the top PP units in the league are made up of guys who see a lot of even strength ice together. It means the chemistry is already there and opens up the flow.

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01-25-2013, 08:51 AM
  #130
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I know it has already been mentioned, but Stralman needs more PP time. IMO it's not his shot that should warrant him getting more (even though his shot is pretty good), but how smooth he is with the puck. He doesn't handle it like a grenade like Del Zotto and isn't careless with it like Richards either.

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01-25-2013, 10:40 AM
  #131
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Stralman scored (32) of his (52) points in Columbus on the PP, but has added only a mere (4) PP assists as a Ranger. He needs a serious look with the man advantage. Someone on the roster probably knows this already.

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01-25-2013, 11:44 AM
  #132
SERE 24
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It's not just the lack of movement, which I agree is a huge problem. It's the positions that the players do occupy on the ice; even if they do move, to chase down a puck, they come right back to these positions that don't make much sense. Nash is constantly parked on the side of the net, practically on the goal line, trying to jam in a rebound. When the pass comes down low to him, he has no angle for a shot and the cross-crease play is low percentage without getting movement, because we're not drawing anyone out of position. Gaborik, if I recall correctly, was on the similar position on the other side of the net, although he sometimes wanders higher, which is better, IMO.

I get it, Torts, or Sully, or whoever came up with this. Nash is a big body so you think he can combine of far above average hands with his size and strength means he can just post up and push pucks past the goalie, but that's not going to be his strength. Why isn't Gaborik in the high slot? Why isn't Nash along the half wall where he can MOVE and make defenders come to him? Or Nash in the high slot and Gaborik on the half wall? Why are we posting players on either side of the net down low when our point men never get shots through and any pass down low leaves our two best shooters with bad angle shots at best?

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01-25-2013, 12:24 PM
  #133
Riche16
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The triangle everyone plays killing a 5-3 doesn't have to move, or even rotate to stop us because we don't move our feet. Two high, two wide, one in front and they pass around the perimeter.

Lazy
Inept
No creativity
Wet-crap

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01-28-2013, 01:02 AM
  #134
Hockey Team
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I think we have the best flower play unit on paper..

Does any other team have a better players on their flower plays?

Nash
Gaborik
Richards
Callahan
Del Zotto

It can't realistically get much better then that (Unless you add weber/chara.. again.. we're talking about realistic lineups here). Yet for some reason they can't deliver..

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01-28-2013, 01:05 AM
  #135
Krams
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There's just no movement. It's inexcusable.

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01-28-2013, 01:46 AM
  #136
Hockey Team
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Yeah.. there's no more "we need a player who can do XXXX on the flower play"

With our FP unit they should be able to do anything they want to.

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01-28-2013, 04:07 AM
  #137
Ola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend23 View Post
Do we have anyone who can shoot on the fly....especially at the points. It seems to me that we give the PK too much time to get back into the lanes by settling the puck and then taking a shot rather than shooting one timers like Jagr used to do from the right circle.
The problem is that we just can't staff a standard PP!

This is more or less how all good PP's are set up:

-----------------5 Forward (left)--------------
----------------NET---------------------
---------4 Garbage player (right)-----------
----------------------------3 Playmaker/Shooter (Left)
-2 Shooter (Right)------------------------------
---------------------1 QB (Left)----------------

You can mirror it. You can rotate it. You can weight their roles diffrently. But, you need those bolded sticks to point in the right direction. Why? Its not about just being able to shoot the puck. You need a open lane. Before the shot you must be able to A) gain the zone, B) set up and controll the box, force it to rotate by opening up two options of which the box only can over one, then C) shoot the puck.

We can fill these postions;
1. Brad Richards;
4. Ryan Callahan;
5. Nash/Gabby;
with world class options. But the extremely important 2 and 3 aren't available.

Gabby don't get the 3. role at all. Nash hasn't worked out there yet atleast. Stepan and MDZ are good PP players, but they shot the wrong way for a BR run PP. Unfortuneately.

These are two PPs that BR has worked fantastically on:
Tampa
---------------------MSL--------------
---------------NET-------------------
---------Andrechuck (right)-----------
----------------------------Lecavalier (Left)
-Boyle (Right)------------------------------
---------------------BR (Left)-----------

Dallas
--------------Eriksson--------------
---------------NET-------------------
---------Neal--------------------------
----------------------------Riberio (Left)
-Zubov (Right)------------------------------
---------------------BR (Left)------------

BR starts out far and deeper to the right with Riberio/Lecavalier deep in the zone. Boyle/Zubov rotates towards the left side. Richards moves back towards the center of the blueline. Riberio/ LeCavalier moves up towards the blueline. They get 3 shooting options. 3 passing options to foce the PK box to rotate. They can choose to go high (shot from the blue line) or low (riberio or LeCav takes the puck to the net).

1) We lack that left shooting player on the right side that gives BR a relief option and can function with him when forcing the box to rotate.
2) We lack the right shooting option next to BR on the blueline.


Last edited by Ola: 01-28-2013 at 04:13 AM.
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01-28-2013, 04:26 AM
  #138
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movement, move move move move move create lanes. the essence of the MAN ADVANTAGE is to have open man to take a good shop on goal. When you don't move it's a 5 on 4. 1 on 0 is better than 2 on 1 and 3 on 2 is better than 4 on 3, 5 on 4 is better than 6 on 5.... so when you don't move your silly bottoms around, you're playing a 5 on 4. The difference between a good PP and a bad PP is simply how close PP units can get to an instant 2-1 or 1-0 play. When you push the puck around the way we do, the best we're going to get is a 3-2 situation. In the one play where Pyatt scored the PPG in PHI, it was essentially a 2-1. We need to move the puck better, faster and make plays that will get the opposition to move. That's the thing, when you have a bad PP, everyone can smell it, no opposition defender will be convinced they HAVE TO make a desperate play/block. That being said, we need guys that are willing to try and maneuver with the puck toward the collapsed defensive zone and make defenders go to them.

Both elements to a PP are wrong.
There's the set up and plan of attack which Sully is not doing anything about. Fine.
The guys on the ice have to be more creative with the puck. no lane is going to magically open just because you're making point passes. Not once during 80% of our failed PP did a player carry the puck in a way that would convince the opposition's defender that he's actually going to do something.

Our trap hockey last season is essentially what we're allowing the PK unit to do. We collapse and block shots 5-5 making it difficult for anything to happen in our defensive zone. We have even strength coverage and our goaltender was god. In our PP, we're basically playing against our own trap hockey from last year except with an extra man who doesn't really factor in much.

All the outlines of who's manning which position is basically what Sully should be thinking about.


Last edited by Cresto: 01-28-2013 at 04:33 AM.
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01-28-2013, 05:30 AM
  #139
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The Rangers also don't make the opposing goalie move from side to side on the PP. I mean you can move the puck around on the left / right side as much as you want, but what good is it if the goalie and the shot blocking PKrs can just focus on one side. Ola's example is a good one. Either you have to move the puck across the crease close in front and stuff it in or have the option to shoot one-timers from either the point or from one of the circles.

Jagr learned how to shoot against the goalie's movement so if the goalie was moving from right to left, Jagr shot it to the right corner and so on. Most of the time the goalie knows where the puck is being cycled and if there's no element of surprise for a one-timer, for example, it's easier to defend it and for the goalie to lock in on the puck.

I've given up on the PP. If they score, great. If not, same old, same old. This will come back to haunt them in the playoffs, but it's unlikely the PP will go from one of the worst to one of the best over a period of 40 games and with new personnel (Nash). We'll have to live with it and hope they can squeeze a few mor ES goals out of themselves in the postseason.

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01-28-2013, 06:22 AM
  #140
Ola
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Yeah, its so important that you got players with the sticks pointing in the right directions at the right positions. It has come down to that. Like 95' you could use alot of diffrent variations, now you need to be able to move the puck in a triangle really fast, because the PK box overloads so hard and are so good at getting into the lanes.

The players in those positions also need to be able to figure what's happening infront of them, and where the open lane will come from a result of that.

Let's take a look at what options Riberio had in the PP Dallas had when BR had 40 pts on the PP (we scored 44 PP goals total last season!!!). Gaborik has failed in this role for us.
--------------Eriksson---------------------
---------------NET------------------------
---------Neal-----------------------------
------------------------------Riberio (Left)
-Zubov (Right)------------------------------
---------------------BR (Left)------------
Riberio can:
1. Pass to BR for a shot.
2. Pass through the PK box to Zubov for a shot.
3. Pass to Neal for a shot.
4. Shoot on net with a wrister.
5. Shoot a one timer on net after a pass from BR.
6. Shot on Neal for a deflection.
7. Take the puck to the net.
8. Pass to Eriksson for a give and go.
9. Pass to Eriksson and go to the net to open up ice for a) Eriksson to come up from the net behind him and take a shot or b) for Eriksson to pass the puck back to BR for a one-timer (one of the most used options)
10. The rotating options: a) move into BR's spot and have Eriksson come up from behind the net into his Riberios old position for a onetimer, b) Move into BR's spot and pass to BR, c) move into BR's spot and shoot the puck on net, d) move into BR's spot and look for a deflection from one of any of the other 4 players on the ice.

And BR has basically as many options. The other players on the ice have real simple jobs in the standard set-up, but these two guys are the core and decide what options they shall go with (in Dallas Zubov kind of functioned in BR's role but they rotated alot).

The above indicates why it can look soooooooo easy for some PP's, and so extremely hard for others. A modern PK box is often able to take away all but 1 or 2 of the like 14 options available, but if you have two guys on your PP in the right positions, who always picks the right spot you get chance after chance after chance.

Gabby's problem has always been that he has taken shots on the PP when he hasn't had a lane; hasn't been able to start a attempt to go to the net downlow when he and BR are pressured up high (like if Gabby and BR are pressured hard, like they often were, you get a 3 on 2 sitautions down low and you gotta get the puck down to the player behind the net in a hurry); hasn't executed fast enough when they pressure is down low; and, without a right handed player in "Zubovs" role, neither Richards nor Gabby has had that great option to move the puck over the left side of the ice if the PK box overloads on them; and so forth.

My point is just, we can't work magic with our knees here. Unless Nash steps up and handles "Riberios" role in the above PP, we are short two core player types for a good PP. If Nash steps up, we are still short that right handed shot on the PP (and that is bad enough). It would be awesome if we could find a a right handed good PP D. With that, and if Nash just is ok in Riberio's role, we go close to 20% atleast. If we get a good left handed playmaker/shooter that BR can work magic with, we go into the top 5 tier PP overall.

We do have decent pieces for a solid 2nd PP unit that is a mirror version of the good PP's used in this league. That PP sets up on the left side of the ice and is run by Stepan and Del Zott, with Gabby on the right side in the shooter role:
--------------Hagelin---------------------
------------------NET-----------------
--------------Pyatt-----------------------
Stepan--------------------------Gabby
-------------------------------------
-----------MDZ----------------------


Last edited by Ola: 01-28-2013 at 06:38 AM.
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01-28-2013, 06:55 AM
  #141
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Ola, what do you do for a living? You should be coaching hockey at some level. If I remember correctly, didn't you mention in passing how you played in the SEL for a little bit?

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01-28-2013, 08:16 AM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Team View Post
Does any other team have a better players on their flower plays?

Nash
Gaborik
Richards
Callahan
Del Zotto

It can't realistically get much better then that (Unless you add weber/chara.. again.. we're talking about realistic lineups here). Yet for some reason they can't deliver..
That's a bad PP unit. No player can skate the puck in the zone from our own end flawlessly like a Karlsson or Boyle. We kill 30-40 secs trying to gain zone entry since no one on the roster seems to be capable of doing that.

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01-28-2013, 08:33 AM
  #143
HockeyBasedNYC
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Ugh. Its the same ole problem and same ole conversation every year with this team. Then we get new players that should help out and it still isn't effective, every year it seems.

The Rangers probably make it to the finals by not having to go to two game 7's last year if they had a dangerous PP. They would probably have a winning record or at least a couple more points this season if they converted on a couple 5 on 3s. Its the one thing that has continued to hold this team back from really getting over the hump.

If this team wants to do anything special theyll need to figure this out, and quick.

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01-28-2013, 08:45 AM
  #144
HockeyBasedNYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
That's a bad PP unit. No player can skate the puck in the zone from our own end flawlessly like a Karlsson or Boyle. We kill 30-40 secs trying to gain zone entry since no one on the roster seems to be capable of doing that.

I always thought that was a huge part of the problem with the Rangers, gaining the zone - I may be wrong because im being over critical of the team on this one - but i dont think theres a more deliberate and SLOW breakout coming from their own zone. The last few games it looked like they were working on this with more speed coming in from a player darting in and timing the dump in or pass, but as far as going back to retrieve a clear and getting it back into the oppositions zone, i dont think theres a slower team in the NHL.

I could think of a few reasons.

A. Lundqvist may be the worst puck handling goalie in the NHL.
I love Hank, but he should work on his stickhandling relentlessly. Not only does he remove 1/8th of the PP time by not head manning the puck as much as he should, but ES his ****** puck skills have probably lead to 1/6th more time on the defensive and a large number of giveaways. Dont underestimate this.

The mere fact that a majority of the time to Rangers have to fetch the puck behind their net instead of at the top of the circles is enough for the defense to push everyone up 15 feet and make it harder to navigate the neutral zone.

B. The lack of a true PP QB
- Hopefully DZ becomes this, but right now even hes too slow and deliberate. It shouldnt take 10-15 seconds to get back to the icing line, set a breakout and get back to the oppositions blue line. I dont care whos back there. It seems like every PP im yelling at the TV for them to get going while the PP time is clicking off, no matter what time of the game it is.

C. Lost time
- This kind of goes hand in hand with A and B, but is it me or does it always seem like the oppositions PP's are like 50% longer than the Rangers PP's? Especially the good PP teams. Wasted time like dicking around with the puck, getting outnumbered in the corners, lost faceoffs, passing it back and forth at the points (slowly), slow breakouts, dump ins (giveaways) not enough shots on net to get faceoffs... get whistles


In short, the Rangers need to manage their PP time better. Start there. If they work quicker, breakout faster, pass more decisively, get off one timers, head man the puck from their own zone, etc... then the 20-30 dead seconds they always seem to lose might be the time when they put a puck in the net.

Maybe not every time, but we are talking about a 3% increase in success which is the difference between a top 10 PP and one that sucks. Maximizing the man advantage time = decisiveness.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 01-28-2013 at 08:59 AM.
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01-28-2013, 09:10 AM
  #145
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How many point to point passes has Richards sent cross the blueline on the pp? It's more than just a lack of strategy and the wrong players, seems to be lack of concentration and focus with the puck on the pp. Normally he can make those passes tape to tape blindfolded.

I dunno. Seems odd to me.

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01-28-2013, 09:42 AM
  #146
Rangerboy030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Yeah, its so important that you got players with the sticks pointing in the right directions at the right positions. It has come down to that. Like 95' you could use alot of diffrent variations, now you need to be able to move the puck in a triangle really fast, because the PK box overloads so hard and are so good at getting into the lanes.

The players in those positions also need to be able to figure what's happening infront of them, and where the open lane will come from a result of that.

Let's take a look at what options Riberio had in the PP Dallas had when BR had 40 pts on the PP (we scored 44 PP goals total last season!!!). Gaborik has failed in this role for us.
--------------Eriksson---------------------
---------------NET------------------------
---------Neal-----------------------------
------------------------------Riberio (Left)
-Zubov (Right)------------------------------
---------------------BR (Left)------------
Riberio can:
1. Pass to BR for a shot.
2. Pass through the PK box to Zubov for a shot.
3. Pass to Neal for a shot.
4. Shoot on net with a wrister.
5. Shoot a one timer on net after a pass from BR.
6. Shot on Neal for a deflection.
7. Take the puck to the net.
8. Pass to Eriksson for a give and go.
9. Pass to Eriksson and go to the net to open up ice for a) Eriksson to come up from the net behind him and take a shot or b) for Eriksson to pass the puck back to BR for a one-timer (one of the most used options)
10. The rotating options: a) move into BR's spot and have Eriksson come up from behind the net into his Riberios old position for a onetimer, b) Move into BR's spot and pass to BR, c) move into BR's spot and shoot the puck on net, d) move into BR's spot and look for a deflection from one of any of the other 4 players on the ice.

And BR has basically as many options. The other players on the ice have real simple jobs in the standard set-up, but these two guys are the core and decide what options they shall go with (in Dallas Zubov kind of functioned in BR's role but they rotated alot).

The above indicates why it can look soooooooo easy for some PP's, and so extremely hard for others. A modern PK box is often able to take away all but 1 or 2 of the like 14 options available, but if you have two guys on your PP in the right positions, who always picks the right spot you get chance after chance after chance.

Gabby's problem has always been that he has taken shots on the PP when he hasn't had a lane; hasn't been able to start a attempt to go to the net downlow when he and BR are pressured up high (like if Gabby and BR are pressured hard, like they often were, you get a 3 on 2 sitautions down low and you gotta get the puck down to the player behind the net in a hurry); hasn't executed fast enough when they pressure is down low; and, without a right handed player in "Zubovs" role, neither Richards nor Gabby has had that great option to move the puck over the left side of the ice if the PK box overloads on them; and so forth.

My point is just, we can't work magic with our knees here. Unless Nash steps up and handles "Riberios" role in the above PP, we are short two core player types for a good PP. If Nash steps up, we are still short that right handed shot on the PP (and that is bad enough). It would be awesome if we could find a a right handed good PP D. With that, and if Nash just is ok in Riberio's role, we go close to 20% atleast. If we get a good left handed playmaker/shooter that BR can work magic with, we go into the top 5 tier PP overall.

We do have decent pieces for a solid 2nd PP unit that is a mirror version of the good PP's used in this league. That PP sets up on the left side of the ice and is run by Stepan and Del Zott, with Gabby on the right side in the shooter role:
--------------Hagelin---------------------
------------------NET-----------------
--------------Pyatt-----------------------
Stepan--------------------------Gabby
-------------------------------------
-----------MDZ----------------------
On your note about our potential 2nd unit, if it were to be a mirror of the standard 1st PP unit, wouldn't Del Zotto need to be a righty? I'm assuming that you have Stepan in the Shooter/Playmaker role on the left side as he's a right handed shot.

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01-28-2013, 11:00 AM
  #147
ImIdaho
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Our PP was our downfall last season; they better get someone (New coach) to fix it.

Here's the weird thing: we aren't dead last on the PP. We're actually 26th. Un-****ing-believable!

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01-28-2013, 11:10 AM
  #148
Ola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerboy030 View Post
On your note about our potential 2nd unit, if it were to be a mirror of the standard 1st PP unit, wouldn't Del Zotto need to be a righty? I'm assuming that you have Stepan in the Shooter/Playmaker role on the left side as he's a right handed shot.
I think BR is kind of playing the "off-point" on the PP, normally the player in his position would be a right shooting player. But it doesn't seem to bother him much.

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01-28-2013, 12:11 PM
  #149
tomcatNYR
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Andrew Gross ‏@AGrossRecord
Quote:
#NYR working on power play.
PP1: Del Zotto-Girardi Nash-Callahan-Richards
PP2 McDonagh-Stralman Pyatt-Stepan-Gaborik

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01-28-2013, 12:13 PM
  #150
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Not sure what to think of that -- taking Gaborik of the main PP unit. But it looks like they are trying to match the handedness like Ola has pointed out. Del Zotto and Girardi on the point can both shoot one-timers directly off a pass, same with McDonagh and Stralman.

We'll see.

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