HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XVII

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-28-2013, 09:58 AM
  #201
IkeaMonkey*
HF Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: derderderderderderde
Country: Sao Tome e Principe
Posts: 12,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
Mojo for Nino?
It's a really intriguing idea. Mojo has proven a lot more at this level(I mean for ****s sake, Nino played 55 games last year and got 1 point...), but Nino has a way higher ceiling and more valuable skill set, though it's looking like he will never reach that potential.

IkeaMonkey* is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 10:08 AM
  #202
BobRouse
Registered User
 
BobRouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,926
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
Except it's not the first sign of struggle from Johansson. The warning signs were there all last season. He is physically and mentally soft. Both of those are preventing him from being an effective NHL player. That's why he is getting benched, it's not just because the offense isn't there.

He had an extended offseason to address his major weaknesses, and came back with no improvement in either. That's not a sign of someone developing into a NHLer of value.
Dude...he is 22 frikin years old! Not sure how that point is flying by your head. He was one of our leading scorers last year so I'd say he's an effective NHL player.

You're the type that would have traded Peter Bondra after back to back underwhelming 20 goal years.

Schoenfeld and the Caps also gave up on a young Jason Allison. How did that work out? Remember he was routinely in the doghouse during those years.

BobRouse is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 10:10 AM
  #203
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 19,133
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Dude...he is 22 frikin years old! Not sure how that point is flying by your head. He was one of our leading scorers last year so I'd say he's an effective NHL player.

You're the type that would have traded Peter Bondra after back to back underwhelming 20 goal years.
Not to mention, he was one of our best forwards in the playoffs as a rookie. Surely a sign of mental weakness.

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 10:20 AM
  #204
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 14,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Apparently. And now Ryan O'Reilly and his career high of 55 points is worth more than Mike Ribeiro in a trade. Plus, paying him $5M a year is seemingly desirable.
To be fair, ROR probably is worth more than Mike Ribeiro at this point. You get at least four years of team control of O'Reilly, compared to less than one year of Ribeiro. Additionally, O'Reilly is only 21 and is on the upswing of his career and brings a lot more to the table defensively than Ribeiro. Minimally, you can count on O'Reilly as a 2nd line shutdown center for the next several years, but he still has untapped offensive potential that could allow him to accept an even greater role.

As for the $5M rumors, I highly doubt his contract ends up being that high unless the term buys up multiple UFA years. That's supposedly his asking price (though his agent denies it), but players rarely receive their asking price during RFA negotiations.

Hivemind is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 10:25 AM
  #205
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Dude...he is 22 frikin years old! Not sure how that point is flying by your head. He was one of our leading scorers last year so I'd say he's an effective NHL player.

You're the type that would have traded Peter Bondra after back to back underwhelming 20 goal years.

Schoenfeld and the Caps also gave up on a young Jason Allison. How did that work out? Remember he was routinely in the doghouse during those years.
0.58 P/G alone is not going to buy a lot of time in the NHL. What a player brings when the points aren't there has lot to do with his effectiveness as a NHL player, and it's pretty clear what Johansson brings is not anything good or else he would have been playing. He is a 3rd year pro that has not addressed his significant weaknesses.

Bondra is irrelevant to this discussion since he was an All-Star by his 3rd season.

Adam Oates actually ended up playing more games for the Caps than Allison did for the Bruins, and was the the 1st line center for the team that made it to the SCF. So it worked out pretty well for the Caps.

Brad Tolliver is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 10:45 AM
  #206
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 19,133
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
To be fair, ROR probably is worth more than Mike Ribeiro at this point. You get at least four years of team control of O'Reilly, compared to less than one year of Ribeiro. Additionally, O'Reilly is only 21 and is on the upswing of his career and brings a lot more to the table defensively than Ribeiro. Minimally, you can count on O'Reilly as a 2nd line shutdown center for the next several years, but he still has untapped offensive potential that could allow him to accept an even greater role.

As for the $5M rumors, I highly doubt his contract ends up being that high unless the term buys up multiple UFA years. That's supposedly his asking price (though his agent denies it), but players rarely receive their asking price during RFA negotiations.
I just think O'Reilly is terribly overrated as a top-6 center. There are probably half a dozen young centers around his age I'd rather pursue if we're giving up Johansson plus a good draft pick.

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 10:48 AM
  #207
IkeaMonkey*
HF Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: derderderderderderde
Country: Sao Tome e Principe
Posts: 12,073
vCash: 500
Good Brad is on the right track. Mojo's value outside of scoring...is what? He's got great wheels...which he doesn't use to play physical with. He's terribad on draws and pillow soft.Teams have figured out to smurf him before he can get his patended drop pass off and he seriously looks horrible.

IkeaMonkey* is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 10:49 AM
  #208
BobRouse
Registered User
 
BobRouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,926
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
0.58 P/G alone is not going to buy a lot of time in the NHL. What a player brings when the points aren't there has lot to do with his effectiveness as a NHL player, and it's pretty clear what Johansson brings is not anything good or else he would have been playing. He is a 3rd year pro that has not addressed his significant weaknesses.

Bondra is irrelevant to this discussion since he was an All-Star by his 3rd season.

Adam Oates actually ended up playing more games for the Caps than Allison did for the Bruins, and was the the 1st line center for the team that made it to the SCF. So it worked out pretty well for the Caps.
Clearly you have very little patience with young players and expect them to develop far more rapidly than most. Thats your call.

That trade got David Poile fired and the Caps would have had a do over in a heartbeat. Allison became a dominant player for the Bs in addition to the other assets. The only thing good about it was broken-down Ranford's suckitude and injury that led to the emergence of Olaf Kolzig...who by the way didn't become good til his 5th year at age 28. He was wildly inconsistent before then.

MJ has played 2 years in the league and was rushed into his first due to our lack of center depth.

Last year he was one of the leading scorers on the team and the year before perhaps our best player in the playoffs.

BobRouse is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 10:56 AM
  #209
Ridley Simon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,244
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
I just think O'Reilly is terribly overrated as a top-6 center. There are probably half a dozen young centers around his age I'd rather pursue if we're giving up Johansson plus a good draft pick.
Do tell? And that we could actually *get* for MoJo and a 2nd?

Ridley Simon is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 11:02 AM
  #210
IkeaMonkey*
HF Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: derderderderderderde
Country: Sao Tome e Principe
Posts: 12,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
MJ has played 2 years in the league and was rushed into his first due to our lack of center depth.

Last year he was one of the leading scorers on the team and the year before perhaps our best player in the playoffs.
Cheechoo was a great player at one time too.

Mojo has looked absolutely awful. He has one move, drop pass. We are a team of players who have one identifiable "move". OV's little blue line cross deke, Ward standing still on the crease, Hendo's shootout move. No depth on this team!

IkeaMonkey* is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 11:04 AM
  #211
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 14,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
I just think O'Reilly is terribly overrated as a top-6 center. There are probably half a dozen young centers around his age I'd rather pursue if we're giving up Johansson plus a good draft pick.
Who? Obviously guys like Tavares and RNH would be preferable, but you're not going to get those for Johansson (or anything short of Backstrom or Ovechkin).

O'Reilly's 55 points last year put him in a tie for the 70th most points produced from any player. 23rd among players classified as a center by NHL.com. He's already producing like a borderline 1st line center. And he did that with a rookie (Landeskog) on one wing, and a combination of the Daniel Winnik, Steve Downie, and Milan Hejduk on the other. Winnik doesn't bring much of an offensive game (yes. I'm aware of his sudden offensive outburst this year) and Hejduk is way over the hill. The fact he was able to suddenly turn Downie into an offensive threat should speak to his skill level.

Especially in scenarios where you can line up strong, two-way players with him, you can create a very strong two-way line that can shut down the opponent's to players and still produce.

Do I think he's an ideal fit for the Capitals? No, we already able to roll Backstrom, Ribeiro, and Laich down the middle so I don't see the need to spend quality asset to pursue him. And we have plenty of players capable of filling in during an injury. But most teams are probably going to put substantially more value in O'Reilly than Ribeiro, given the surrounding circumstances.

Hivemind is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 11:06 AM
  #212
Ridley Simon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,244
vCash: 500
Ribeiro

2 things on him (and its early, I know this):

1. We need to get the guy some wingers who can finish. I honestly think he needs to play with Ovechkin. Backstrom is a better scorer than Ribeiro, so he can carry his own line (offensively) maybe a little better than Ribeiro can. I'd rather see Laich and Brouwer with Backstrom.

2. We should resign him. Yes, I said it, and I know its only 6 games in. But he and Backstrom would be tremendous for us, in the future. 4 years at 6m a year. Let him actually replace Semin's salary slot long term.

Ovechkin-Riberio-Wolski
Laich-Backstrom-Brouwer
Chimera-Johansson-Ward
Hendricks-Beagle-Crabb
Perrault-Fehr

I like that. But thats just me. If MaJo keeps stinking it up, we have other options. I'd prefer a more shut down C for that 3rd line, but MaJo at least has the wheels to go with Chimera.

Anyway, RESIGN Ribs!

Ridley Simon is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 11:09 AM
  #213
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 14,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IkeaMonkey View Post
Cheechoo was a great player at one time too.
He was a one-tool player who had that skill maximized by playing next to Joe Thornton in his prime.

Hivemind is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 11:10 AM
  #214
BobRouse
Registered User
 
BobRouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,926
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
2 things on him (and its early, I know this):

1. We need to get the guy some wingers who can finish. I honestly think he needs to play with Ovechkin. Backstrom is a better scorer than Ribeiro, so he can carry his own line (offensively) maybe a little better than Ribeiro can. I'd rather see Laich and Brouwer with Backstrom.

2. We should resign him. Yes, I said it, and I know its only 6 games in. But he and Backstrom would be tremendous for us, in the future. 4 years at 6m a year. Let him actually replace Semin's salary slot long term.

Ovechkin-Riberio-Wolski
Laich-Backstrom-Brouwer
Chimera-Johansson-Ward
Hendricks-Beagle-Crabb
Perrault-Fehr

I like that. But thats just me. If MaJo keeps stinking it up, we have other options. I'd prefer a more shut down C for that 3rd line, but MaJo at least has the wheels to go with Chimera.

Anyway, RESIGN Ribs!
Lets see how the season plays out first my man.

He's good but not $6 mil per good!

BobRouse is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 11:15 AM
  #215
IkeaMonkey*
HF Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: derderderderderderde
Country: Sao Tome e Principe
Posts: 12,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
He was a one-tool player who had that skill maximized by playing next to Joe Thornton in his prime.
What tool does Mojo have?

Good skating ability then a drop pass?

IkeaMonkey* is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 11:22 AM
  #216
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IkeaMonkey View Post
Good Brad is on the right track. Mojo's value outside of scoring...is what? He's got great wheels...which he doesn't use to play physical with. He's terribad on draws and pillow soft.Teams have figured out to smurf him before he can get his patended drop pass off and he seriously looks horrible.
There really isn't that much value in his scoring. He only scored 1 more goal last season vs his rookie season, and that was with significantly increased top-6 ice time and 11 extra games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Clearly you have very little patience with young players and expect them to develop far more rapidly than most. Thats your call.

That trade got David Poile fired and the Caps would have had a do over in a heartbeat. Allison became a dominant player for the Bs in addition to the other assets. The only thing good about it was broken-down Ranford's suckitude and injury that led to the emergence of Olaf Kolzig...who by the way didn't become good til his 5th year at age 28. He was wildly inconsistent before then.

MJ has played 2 years in the league and was rushed into his first due to our lack of center depth.

Last year he was one of the leading scorers on the team and the year before perhaps our best player in the playoffs.
Players without elite potential that are exhibiting poor development signs and habits should be traded if it brings in a better player. That's where Marcus Johasson falls.

Poile was fired because the Caps missed the playoffs. Allison had played 13 games in a Bruins uniform by then. As dominant as Allison was he couldn't beat Oates H2H in the playoffs and only made to the 2nd round once as a Bruin.

Defensemen and goalies usually have a longer development curve than forwards. Speaking of defensemen, Jeff Schultz still has the same exact mental and physical weaknesses that everyone saw in his early 20s. How did being patient with him work out? That contract isn't looking so great without that shiny +50 stat.

Johansson was tied with Dennis Wideman in points. That's not a great accomplishment for a player consistently getting top-6 time. As for playoffs from years ago, Steve Eminger happened too.


Last edited by Brad Tolliver: 01-28-2013 at 11:28 AM.
Brad Tolliver is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 11:36 AM
  #217
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 14,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IkeaMonkey View Post
What tool does Mojo have?

Good skating ability then a drop pass?
Would you prefer he skate the puck right into the defender's skates, ala Ovechkin? If you're the foremost forward on the ice, where else are you going to pass it?

Hivemind is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 11:36 AM
  #218
coyote
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 833
vCash: 500
wolski

I don't know why everyone considers him a first line player. I know you don't have to be that physical to be up there but this guy is softer then marshmallows. It's obvious why he was available.

coyote is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 11:38 AM
  #219
strungout
Professional Killer
 
strungout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 29,228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by coyote View Post
I don't know why everyone considers him a first line player. I know you don't have to be that physical to be up there but this guy is softer then marshmallows. It's obvious why he was available.
Define "everyone"

strungout is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 11:40 AM
  #220
Bananas
****
 
Bananas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,298
vCash: 500
I hope GMGM starts feeling the heat. He should be fighting f

Bananas is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 11:40 AM
  #221
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 19,133
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Do tell? And that we could actually *get* for MoJo and a 2nd?
Obviously, some of these wouldn't be obtainable for that price, but taking into consideration offensive upside and contract situation:

Tavares
Seguin
RNH
Duchene
Hodgson
Skinner
Couture
Stepan
Henrique
Huberdeau
Galchenyuk

Maybe:

Couturier
Schenn
Granlund

O'Reilly had 55 points last year with 15:59 ESTOI/G (1.75 P/60) and 2:21 PPTOI/G (4.76 P/60). That was his career high in his 3rd year in the league.

Johansson had 46 points last year with 13:58 ESTOI/G (1.90 P/60) and 2:13 PPTOI/G (2.95 P/60). That was his career high in his 2nd year in the league.

Looking at their scoring rates, Johansson was the more productive player at even strength. O'Reilly's better numbers overall came from his PP production. For reference's sake, Colorado's team PP% was 18.4 (9th in the NHL), and Washington's was 16.7 (18th in the NHL).

I'd be happy with getting O'Reilly for another asset, as long as you're not paying him the $5M/year he's allegedly demanding. But he's not that far ahead of Johansson.

Also, while I haven't seen Johansson this year, it seems that his struggles are still related to his strength on the puck. Personally, lack of strength is the weakness I'd like to have most in a young player, as it's one that can be remedied. Look at the jump Tomas Fleischmann's game took when he gained the requisite strength.

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 11:42 AM
  #222
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 19,133
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
2 things on him (and its early, I know this):

1. We need to get the guy some wingers who can finish. I honestly think he needs to play with Ovechkin. Backstrom is a better scorer than Ribeiro, so he can carry his own line (offensively) maybe a little better than Ribeiro can. I'd rather see Laich and Brouwer with Backstrom.

2. We should resign him. Yes, I said it, and I know its only 6 games in. But he and Backstrom would be tremendous for us, in the future. 4 years at 6m a year. Let him actually replace Semin's salary slot long term.

Ovechkin-Riberio-Wolski
Laich-Backstrom-Brouwer
Chimera-Johansson-Ward
Hendricks-Beagle-Crabb
Perrault-Fehr

I like that. But thats just me. If MaJo keeps stinking it up, we have other options. I'd prefer a more shut down C for that 3rd line, but MaJo at least has the wheels to go with Chimera.

Anyway, RESIGN Ribs!
Agree with all of this except for that first line. I can't think of a worse defensive line that could be put together with the current personnel.

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 11:44 AM
  #223
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Would you prefer he skate the puck right into the defender's skates, ala Ovechkin? If you're the foremost forward on the ice, where else are you going to pass it?
Use his speed to get past the defenseman? Oh no can't do that because that might mean getting hit. Better dump it off to your teammate and let him get hit instead.

Johansson is basically a poor man's version of Wolski with less offensive skill and size. There is a reason the guy keeps bouncing around different teams and got picked up on a dumpster dive.

Brad Tolliver is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 11:49 AM
  #224
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
So when is Jeff Schultz going to gain the requisite strength to become a competent NHL defenseman?

Brad Tolliver is offline  
Old
01-28-2013, 11:52 AM
  #225
BiPolar Caps
Emotionally Wounded!
 
BiPolar Caps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 5,793
vCash: 500
Anyone know how Schilling has looked at Hershey this season. With Hamrlik, Poti, Erskine and Hillen all pending UFAs, just wondering if Schilling is able to make the jump to the NHL next season.

BiPolar Caps is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:22 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.