HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Notices

Borowiecki

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-28-2013, 11:02 AM
  #51
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,419
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumcajs View Post
Looks like what Chris Phillips used to be. Sometimes he has a shade of Volchenkov too.
Boro isn't close to the talent level Phillips in his prime.

The guy has played 4 NHL games and other than his willingness to be physical really hasn't done much else that puts him in the company of a younger Phillips or Volchy.

Holdurbreathe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 11:03 AM
  #52
coladin
Registered User
 
coladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,467
vCash: 1413
We need someone to play physical and he is doing a great job. I like Benoit and he has been good but I wouldn't mind to have him take his turn in the press box and have Wiercoch get back in

coladin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 11:14 AM
  #53
ZSensFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 114
vCash: 500
Love the Borocop. This is what we need from at least one d-man since Carkner is gone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q8-4sZNd84

ZSensFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 11:15 AM
  #54
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,419
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamRenzo View Post
Our 5/6 dman doesnt have that much impact on the team.
Boro was in the 3/4 spot yesterday and yes the 5/6 guys have to have an impact.

Yesterday the D shut down Pittsburgh pretty well, but the Gonchar/Boro pairing did little offensively. IMO this was largely due to Boro's inability to make crisp tape to tape passes. Most of his passes missed the intended target slowing down the attack.

I like what Boro brings, but IMO he can't play with Gonchar and expect any offence from that pairing.

Holdurbreathe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 11:20 AM
  #55
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,419
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by coladin View Post
We need someone to play physical and he is doing a great job. I like Benoit and he has been good but I wouldn't mind to have him take his turn in the press box and have Wiercoch get back in
Benoit is LD, 1 of 3, that is one of the reasons he hasn't sat yet.

The other reasons are Benoit has played pretty well and MacLean like vets.

Holdurbreathe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 11:24 AM
  #56
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,419
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZSensFan View Post
Love the Borocop. This is what we need from at least one d-man since Carkner is gone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q8-4sZNd84
LOL Boro isn't going to fight the heavyweights like Carkner does, not even sure how he would fare against many of the middleweights.

Boro is physical and fearless, but I have seen him get thumped pretty badly.

Holdurbreathe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 11:26 AM
  #57
Hale The Villain
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,949
vCash: 50
He's going to be an awesome defenseman for us.

Could lead the NHL in hits for defenseman soon. He's constantly roughing up opponents and is going to be awfully hard to play against. He'll block shots, fight, stand up for teammates, and he'll keep the opposing forwards worried about their safety every time he's on the ice.

If he improves his offensive game, specifically his passing ability, and limits his defensive mistakes, he could be a guy we plug into the top 4 to play with a guy like Ceci or Wiercioch; if he doesn't improve these things, he's still a guy who is an asset on the bottom pairing.

Hale The Villain is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 01:44 PM
  #58
DrEasy
Allez Stephane !
 
DrEasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,956
vCash: 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
If you expect him to be playing like Erik Karlsson, of course you will always be disappointed.

I repeat, Phillips has been fine. At this point in his career, he is a great #5 because due to age, he lost a step. That's what happens when you have been sacrificing your body for the same team all your career.

That being said, it's astounding the amount of hate Chris Phillips gets. Frustrating for old time fans like me. Phillips ain't a "top pair" D-man anymore and it's just the way things go, like Alfie ain't a top line player anymore as well.

I think they still deserve a bit more respect, as we could just temper our expectations on them. Phillips still play great PK, score important goals, score about 20-25 points per 82 games (which is good for a defensive D-man), is never injured, has a lot of experience/leadership to share with youngsters and is fine at even strenght when he is not asked to face high skill/speed forwards like Stamkos. Plus, he never looked for big money and stayed with the Sens because his heart beats for this team. He probably cares a lot more than you ever will.
I think you're looking at Phillips through nostalgic eyes. As you said, everybody declines, but in Phillips' case it's now pretty bad. Name one of our defensemen who is slower than him. He's very hesitant when he has the puck, and it often ends up going straight to the opponent. He's still good at taking the body around the net but even then he's not the tower of strength he used to be.

Part of it may be mental. He seems to play much better when he decides (or the coach tells him?) to be more actively involved offensively. It also somehow seems to affect his play with the puck in the defensive zone.

DrEasy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 02:03 PM
  #59
PoutineSp00nZ
Registered User
 
PoutineSp00nZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,309
vCash: 500
Boro looks good to me. A little clumsy with the puck, but he has such jump and he's very physical. The Sen's blueline badly needs a bruiser, if Boro continues to play solid and doesn't put himself out of position trying to make hits I think he has all the tools to stay.

Only been a couple games though, time will tell.

PoutineSp00nZ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 04:25 PM
  #60
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,419
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poutineplato View Post
Boro looks good to me. A little clumsy with the puck, but he has such jump and he's very physical. The Sen's blueline badly needs a bruiser, if Boro continues to play solid and doesn't put himself out of position trying to make hits I think he has all the tools to stay.

Only been a couple games though, time will tell.
Agree with how you have evaluated Boro to date, but with MacLean's emphasis on quick and accurate puck movement, not a strength of Boro so far.

I suppose I just don't see Boro as a 3/4 defenceman on a successful team and that is where he was yesterday.

Holdurbreathe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 04:47 PM
  #61
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,419
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrEasy View Post
I think you're looking at Phillips through nostalgic eyes. As you said, everybody declines, but in Phillips' case it's now pretty bad. Name one of our defensemen who is slower than him. He's very hesitant when he has the puck, and it often ends up going straight to the opponent. He's still good at taking the body around the net but even then he's not the tower of strength he used to be.

Part of it may be mental. He seems to play much better when he decides (or the coach tells him?) to be more actively involved offensively. It also somehow seems to affect his play with the puck in the defensive zone.
IMO Phillips speed or lack of isn't a major issue and if you attended practice you might be surprised at how fast he is.

He isn't getting beaten to the outside, nor is he losing many races to the puck.

The problem he and other Sens D have at times is quick puck movement.

However crisp, accurate outlet passes aren't all about the D, they are as much a function of the forwards getting into position to receive these passes.

What I have noticed at times during the first five games is forwards leaving the D zone too quickly, creating large gaps and leaving the D to attempt to make low percentage passes.

I also don't think Andy helps his defense with his handling of the puck at times.

All that said, the Sens have given up 1,0,1,6,1 goals over five games.

Overall the D has performed well, including Phillips.

Holdurbreathe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 05:39 PM
  #62
General Granny*
 
General Granny*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 986
vCash: 500
Anderson that's all.

General Granny* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 05:45 PM
  #63
SilverSeven
Registered User
 
SilverSeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Granny View Post
If it was up to me I will sit Philips instead.
You dont say? I never would have guessed. I mean, I think you have had at least 2 or 3 posts that didnt **** all over Phillips.

SilverSeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 05:49 PM
  #64
WasTeD
Gettn Wiggy wit it
 
WasTeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: in your head
Country: Equatorial Guinea
Posts: 14,032
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to WasTeD
He reminds me a lot of Shane Hnidy when he was a Senator. Could be a very good 5/6 guy on a deep defence. He's the kind of player you need in the playoffs.

WasTeD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 11:35 AM
  #65
NHLFreak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 385
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hale The Villain View Post
He's going to be an awesome defenseman for us.

Could lead the NHL in hits for defenseman soon. He's constantly roughing up opponents and is going to be awfully hard to play against. He'll block shots, fight, stand up for teammates, and he'll keep the opposing forwards worried about their safety every time he's on the ice.

If he improves his offensive game, specifically his passing ability, and limits his defensive mistakes, he could be a guy we plug into the top 4 to play with a guy like Ceci or Wiercioch; if he doesn't improve these things, he's still a guy who is an asset on the bottom pairing.
Nice write up.

I was thinking (as other poster said) with the loss of Carkner he'd be ideal. Infact i think he gives you a little more then him doesn't he?

NHLFreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 11:39 AM
  #66
Xspyrit
Registered User
 
Xspyrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 12,933
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrEasy View Post
I think you're looking at Phillips through nostalgic eyes. As you said, everybody declines, but in Phillips' case it's now pretty bad. Name one of our defensemen who is slower than him.
Exageration, confirmation bias.

Only Karlsson is clearly faster than him (and everybody else). Wiercioch and Methot too but that's because they're much younger. Cowen would but he's not there... He's on par with Gonchar (although being a faster skater) and Benoit

One thing people don't understand is that veteran D-men change their style over the course of their careers. It is due to a lost of mobility but also from gaining experience and try to save energy out there. They are not running over everywhere on the ice anymore and play a more "positional sound" game.

However, in a straight line, Phillips would still beat a lot of NHL players in a race. You'd be very surprised and understand how much all of this is related to some kind of bias.

Quote:
He's very hesitant when he has the puck, and it often ends up going straight to the opponent. He's still good at taking the body around the net but even then he's not the tower of strength he used to be.
Again, I don't see that a lot and stats confirms it. He's never among the Sens leaders in give aways (4th last year, 6th this year tied with Methot with only 1 GvA)

Quote:
Part of it may be mental. He seems to play much better when he decides (or the coach tells him?) to be more actively involved offensively. It also somehow seems to affect his play with the puck in the defensive zone
No, it's just that it takes him longer to "shake the rust off" than younger players... Phillips has sacrified his body a lot for this team.

From experience, I know that most fans only see things at the surface... The other team scores : who was on the ice? Phillips and Gonchar? ok blame then! It's their fault... when in reality, most of the time, forwards have had a bigger impact in creating a scoring chance for the opposition... NHL is all about time and space. If O'Brien or Smith miss their positionnal assignements = scoring chance for the other team. But I don't expect every fan to see that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumcajs View Post
Looks like what Chris Phillips used to be. Sometimes he has a shade of Volchenkov too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Granny View Post
Handles the puck better than Philips and skates better than him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Granny View Post
If it was up to me I will sit Philips instead.



Changed tune after last game?

Xspyrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 01:03 PM
  #67
leftwinglocker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 79
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Exageration, confirmation bias.

Only Karlsson is clearly faster than him (and everybody else). Wiercioch and Methot too but that's because they're much younger. Cowen would but he's not there... He's on par with Gonchar (although being a faster skater) and Benoit

One thing people don't understand is that veteran D-men change their style over the course of their careers. It is due to a lost of mobility but also from gaining experience and try to save energy out there. They are not running over everywhere on the ice anymore and play a more "positional sound" game.

However, in a straight line, Phillips would still beat a lot of NHL players in a race. You'd be very surprised and understand how much all of this is related to some kind of bias.



Again, I don't see that a lot and stats confirms it. He's never among the Sens leaders in give aways (4th last year, 6th this year tied with Methot with only 1 GvA)



No, it's just that it takes him longer to "shake the rust off" than younger players... Phillips has sacrified his body a lot for this team.

From experience, I know that most fans only see things at the surface... The other team scores : who was on the ice? Phillips and Gonchar? ok blame then! It's their fault... when in reality, most of the time, forwards have had a bigger impact in creating a scoring chance for the opposition... NHL is all about time and space. If O'Brien or Smith miss their positionnal assignements = scoring chance for the other team. But I don't expect every fan to see that.










Changed tune after last game?
Ranks #4 on team for on ice Corsi and #2 in quality of competition.

leftwinglocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 01:43 PM
  #68
DrEasy
Allez Stephane !
 
DrEasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,956
vCash: 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Exageration, confirmation bias.

Only Karlsson is clearly faster than him (and everybody else). Wiercioch and Methot too but that's because they're much younger. Cowen would but he's not there... He's on par with Gonchar (although being a faster skater) and Benoit

One thing people don't understand is that veteran D-men change their style over the course of their careers. It is due to a lost of mobility but also from gaining experience and try to save energy out there. They are not running over everywhere on the ice anymore and play a more "positional sound" game.

However, in a straight line, Phillips would still beat a lot of NHL players in a race. You'd be very surprised and understand how much all of this is related to some kind of bias.



Again, I don't see that a lot and stats confirms it. He's never among the Sens leaders in give aways (4th last year, 6th this year tied with Methot with only 1 GvA)



No, it's just that it takes him longer to "shake the rust off" than younger players... Phillips has sacrified his body a lot for this team.

From experience, I know that most fans only see things at the surface... The other team scores : who was on the ice? Phillips and Gonchar? ok blame then! It's their fault... when in reality, most of the time, forwards have had a bigger impact in creating a scoring chance for the opposition... NHL is all about time and space. If O'Brien or Smith miss their positionnal assignements = scoring chance for the other team. But I don't expect every fan to see that.
Confirmation bias works both ways; maybe as a Phillips supporter you tend to overlook his mistakes?

Phillips has done a lot of great work for this team, especially back when he was paired with Chara or Volchenkov. His body may have indeed taken a toll, and he's getting old which makes him slower than the other players (I don't see where I exaggerated). That doesn't make his play any better, it's just a possible explanation as to why he's not performing as well as he used to. I love Alfie more than any player in the NHL, but I can see that he's also lost a step. It's ok to criticize an icon, even though it can be painful to hear or admit.

He still has his place on the third pairing, but that's just an indication of our current lack of depth on defense.

DrEasy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 01:47 PM
  #69
Mercurial
#lalala
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,177
vCash: 50
Should change thread title to Bor-vee-eski.

Mercurial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 01:58 PM
  #70
sens83
Registered User
 
sens83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 1,682
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
Should change thread title to Bor-vee-eski.
This

sens83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 02:12 PM
  #71
DonthaveaCOWEN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 339
vCash: 500
People often say we should have kept Carkner because of his toughness element he added.

Lets be clear...

Carkner was tough because he was a great fighter but a great solid hitter he was not. I can probably count on one hand how many good solid open ice hits Carks had in his entire time here. He was too slow to get in a position to throw big hits. He was good at angling guys and rubbing them out against the boards but he wasn't someone you'd fear of catching you with your head down open ice.

DonthaveaCOWEN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 02:14 PM
  #72
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 5,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WasTeD View Post
He reminds me a lot of Shane Hnidy when he was a Senator. Could be a very good 5/6 guy on a deep defence. He's the kind of player you need in the playoffs.
It's a good comparison, except Boro is an absolutely terrific skater, where as Hnidy was always held back by his skating quite a bit. Hnidy was in the bottom 10% of the league in terms of wheels in his prime, while Boro is probably on the better side of the top 50% at this point. He skates in all ways, really, really well (perhaps comparable to Phillips in that way, as Big Rig always had decent wheels).

He is still a work in progress, and nothing is guaranteed in his development, but if all the parts come together, he could be an integral part of our defence going forward. The fact that he brings such utter toughness to our blueline, while being able to potentially hold his own in terms of his play as a hockey player overall, makes him an very valuable guy to us going forward. Guys like Hnidy and Carkner provided valuable minutes as roll players, but Boro could be a lot more than either of those guys.

Dr.Sens(e) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:02 PM
  #73
ReginKarlssonLehner
Classless, no rispek
 
ReginKarlssonLehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 20,168
vCash: 50
Boro's breakout passes are more horrific than... Phillip's worst moments.

ReginKarlssonLehner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:13 PM
  #74
Lehner
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Lehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,465
vCash: 50
Im not a fan, never really have been.

Much rather Benoit, Wiercoich, even Claesson...

Lehner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 08:24 PM
  #75
BrawlFan
Registered User
 
BrawlFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,646
vCash: 500
Love him to death but he needs to learn how to take a hit safely. No worries on holding onto the puck for a second to save yourself from being run

BrawlFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:24 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.