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01-28-2013, 08:58 AM
  #76
Andy
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
If I had the time or the inclination I would scrounge up some of Milbury's decent trades and claim hey he wasn't that bad.

I hated Gainey's tenure with the Habs but part of the problem with Gainey was his daughter's death but the other problem was he listened to his right hand man: Gauthier who at the very least advised Gainey about signing Samsanov, Cammalleri, Spacek, trading for Gomez and giving away Ribeiro for a d-man who wasn't even capable of lacing up his skates anymore.


I decided I have the time:

Jan'96: Rhodes & Redden for Beaupre, Straka & Bedard
Mar'96: W.Clark/M.Schneider/D.Smith to TOR for D. Hendrickson/K.Jonsson/S. Haggerty and TOR 1st Rounder(R. Luongo) +1
May 00: 4th Round Pick(J.Ronnqvist) to ANA for Trent Hunter
Jan 01: 5th Round Pick(J.Andresen) to LAK for J.Blake

Hey he wasn't that bad if you ignore his terrible trades. Gauthier wasn't as bad but that's only because he didn't get as much time as Mad Mike.
When Gauthier has moved the equivalent of Spezza, Jokinen, Luongo, Redden, Bertuzzi, McCabe and signs Yashin to a 10 year 90 million dollar deal, then maybe we can compare the two.

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01-28-2013, 09:04 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
When Gauthier has moved the equivalent of Spezza, Jokinen, Luongo, Redden, Bertuzzi, McCabe and signs Yashin to a 10 year 90 million dollar deal, then maybe we can compare the two.
Maybe I was too subtle for you but I wasn't comparing Gauthier to Milbury.

I was trying to make the point that if you take only the winning trades even a dufus like Milbury looks good.

So it's quite pointless to mention Gauthier's slightly positive trades without taking into account his horrifically terrible ones. You look at the whole picture.

But I'm sure you'll misunderstand this post and make another inane comment.

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01-28-2013, 09:20 AM
  #78
Andy
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Maybe I was too subtle for you but I wasn't comparing Gauthier to Milbury.

I was trying to make the point that if you take only the winning trades even a dufus like Milbury looks good.

So it's quite pointless to mention Gauthier's slightly positive trades without taking into account his horrifically terrible ones. You look at the whole picture.

But I'm sure you'll misunderstand this post and make another inane comment.
But people have mentioned in this thread that bad trades have been made. The whole point was to acknowledge that despite the bad there has been some good, hence the title "Gauthier was terrible but,". The only misunderstanding here is you coming here to tell everyone that take everything into account when it already has, posters are merely acknowledging the good aspect in addition to the bad.

But I'm sure you'll misunderstand this point and attack the poster instead.

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01-28-2013, 09:59 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
But people have mentioned in this thread that bad trades have been made. The whole point was to acknowledge that despite the bad there has been some good, hence the title "Gauthier was terrible but,". The only misunderstanding here is you coming here to tell everyone that take everything into account when it already has, posters are merely acknowledging the good aspect in addition to the bad.

But I'm sure you'll misunderstand this point and attack the poster instead.
Yeah and i showed that Milbury made some astute trades. Should I start a thread with the title Milbury was terrible but....?

There's a but for every manager even Milbury, Howden & Houle.

Gauthier was terrible for this team and if he was allowed to stay one more year it would have taken a decade to clean up his mess. Why don't we talk about that?

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01-28-2013, 10:02 AM
  #80
Andy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
Yeah and i showed that Milbury made some astute trades. Should I start a thread with the title Milbury was terrible but....?

There's a but for every manager even Milbury, Howden & Houle.

Gauthier was terrible for this team and if he was allowed to stay one more year it would have taken a decade to clean up his mess. Why don't we talk about that?
Because we can't. This is based solely on conjecture. So how about no?

Also, I thought Milbury was just used an example to show that we need to look at the big picture, but now it seems as though you are comparing the two, if so, I respond with the same thing as before...

...when Gauthier has moved the equivalent of Spezza, Jokinen, Luongo, Redden, Bertuzzi, McCabe, multiple first round picks and signs Yashin to a 10 year 90 million dollar deal, then maybe we can compare the two.


Last edited by Andy: 01-28-2013 at 11:43 AM.
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01-28-2013, 11:14 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Yeah and i showed that Milbury made some astute trades. Should I start a thread with the title Milbury was terrible but....?

There's a but for every manager even Milbury, Howden & Houle.

Gauthier was terrible for this team and if he was allowed to stay one more year it would have taken a decade to clean up his mess. Why don't we talk about that?
How was Gauthier terrible for the team? The biggest knock people can say against him is the whole "didn't communicate well" thing.

His transactions are all either good or at least logical. Gainey's are harder to defend.

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01-28-2013, 11:21 AM
  #82
Et le But
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I love Gainey but the end of his reign is hard to defend, it was a much bigger disaster than anything Gauthier did. Of course the fact that the two of them worked together is reason enough to be glad that era is behind us.

Gainey never was the same after his daughter died.

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01-28-2013, 11:24 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How was Gauthier terrible for the team? The biggest knock people can say against him is the whole "didn't communicate well" thing.

His transactions are all either good or at least logical. Gainey's are harder to defend.
Lapierre trade is horrible. When you trade valuable NHL hockey players for AHL bums, it can't be considered either good or logical.

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01-28-2013, 11:27 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How was Gauthier terrible for the team? The biggest knock people can say against him is the whole "didn't communicate well" thing.

His transactions are all either good or at least logical. Gainey's are harder to defend.
Not all were. Lapierre and Sergei come to mind. Some will argue D'agostini, but let's face it, the man wasn't going to play and couldn't be sent down because he'd have to pass waivers. Some will also O'byrne, but others would disagree.

Kaberle also comes to mind. If he was putting up points like last season I wouldn't mind, but if Kaberle continues to play the way he has this season, that will also fall into a clear bad category.

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01-28-2013, 11:37 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
he did some good, he did some bad. as it's been said earlier in the thread, gauthier's biggest problem is not his hockey moves, it's that he turned the franchise into an embarrassing circus... people person he is not.

he panicked a bit earlier last season when he acquired kaberle because our powerplay bombed, but when the team went bad, he recognized it and started selling. only thing he messed up then is he could have dumped campoli for a third, but help on for a second.

the bournival and holland/bourque/2nd trades are gonna be good ones
And considering the PK situation, Bergevin isn't?

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01-28-2013, 11:40 AM
  #86
Et le But
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Not all were. Lapierre and Sergei come to mind. Some will argue D'agostini, but let's face it, the man wasn't going to play and couldn't be sent down because he'd have to pass waivers. Some will also O'byrne, but others would disagree.

Kaberle also comes to mind. If he was putting up points like last season I wouldn't mind, but if Kaberle continues to play the way he has this season, that will also fall into a clear bad category.
The Lapierre trade was awful but Lapierre forced it, if there's anyone to blame there it's Martin. The SK trade was even worse but also likely forced.

The Kaberle trade made sense as far as it was a desperate move to get the power play working while the season was savable, but making sense doesn't make a trade good by any means.

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01-28-2013, 11:46 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
The Lapierre trade was awful but Lapierre forced it, if there's anyone to blame there it's Martin. The SK trade was even worse but also likely forced.

The Kaberle trade made sense as far as it was a desperate move to get the power play working while the season was savable, but making sense doesn't make a trade good by any means.
Considering we didn't give up an asset for Kaberle, and considering how desperate we were with Markov going down, I think it was worth the risk.

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01-28-2013, 12:08 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
And considering the PK situation, Bergevin isn't?
no. not even close. if a contract dispute is a reason for calling an organization a circus, you have a strangely high bar of what doesn't constitute a circus.

so far all we've heard is rumors. rumors are just that, rumors... im gonna do the smart thing and for the resolution before judging a process which is very fluid.

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01-28-2013, 12:17 PM
  #89
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Traded Halak after bringing us to round 3 of the playoffs, ...balls.

i can never stay mad at him for that, that was not easy.

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01-28-2013, 12:29 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The Cammy trade was brutal.
The Cammy trade was great. If he was still on the Habs, Bergevin would have asked him to stay home along with Gomez. There is no way the habs get under next year's salary cap with him on the roster.

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01-28-2013, 12:44 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Because we can't. This is based solely on conjecture. So how about no?

Also, I thought Milbury was just used an example to show that we need to look at the big picture, but now it seems as though you are comparing the two, if so, I respond with the same thing as before...

...when Gauthier has moved the equivalent of Spezza, Jokinen, Luongo, Redden, Bertuzzi, McCabe, multiple first round picks and signs Yashin to a 10 year 90 million dollar deal, then maybe we can compare the two.
we can say that Gauthier was part of a management team that produced a mediocre team for just about a decade, culminating in one of the worst seasons in franchise history.

he wasn't GM for the entire duration, but he was clearly an integral part of the leadership (in his roles as head of pro scouting, assistant GM & finally GM) that guided the team through a decade of mediocrity highlighted by 1 outstanding season and 1 surprising playoff run of note.

people can focus on the "but's" all they want, no GM is all good or all bad... the numbers speak for themselves, and the guy is no longer running the team because of them.

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01-28-2013, 02:49 PM
  #92
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his assessment of McDonagh alone should have gotten him fired.

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01-28-2013, 03:05 PM
  #93
Et le But
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his assessment of McDonagh alone should have gotten him fired.
That was Gainey.

There's talk Gauthier was part of the decision but nobody knows. The final decision was Gainey's, and that destroyed his legacy.

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01-28-2013, 03:18 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
That was Gainey.

There's talk Gauthier was part of the decision but nobody knows. The final decision was Gainey's, and that destroyed his legacy.
There were several articles stating that Gauthier wasn't a fan of McDonagh after what little he had seen of him, primarily at the WJC. Gainey at that time was a sitting duck after the death of his daugher

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01-28-2013, 03:52 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by dre2112 View Post
There were several articles stating that Gauthier wasn't a fan of McDonagh after what little he had seen of him, primarily at the WJC. Gainey at that time was a sitting duck after the death of his daugher
Conjecture.

Fact is that Goat provided for his coach as best he could. JM basically called the shots and we saw how awful the Habs looked then compared to this season, with actually positive hockey.

I'd trade Cammy any day of the week, Gomez, Gionta and Spacek too. *** Gainey was truly an imbecile and I can't believe he's venerated yet Goat (for all his logic and simple dealings) is loathed.

I blame the media for this image - he's clearly a talented and desirable hockey mind - the Blackhawks are recent champions and a well run organization and they scooped him up immediately.

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01-28-2013, 04:07 PM
  #96
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Traded Halak after bringing us to round 3 of the playoffs, ...balls.

i can never stay mad at him for that, that was not easy.
Yup. Even though I wasn't thrilled at the return, I give him props for having the courage to make that trade and at least try to get a prospect that he beleived in. It hasn't worked out but at least he tried.

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01-28-2013, 04:22 PM
  #97
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Gauthier was terrible.

I'm sure you all saw the Jaroslav Spacek interview last year. Saying it was the worst and most defunctional management he ever played for.
that's all you need.

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01-28-2013, 04:25 PM
  #98
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Gauthier was terrible.

I'm sure you all saw the Jaroslav Spacek interview last year. Saying it was the worst and most defunctional management he ever played for.
that's all you need.
Considering that Jacques went on L'antichambre and stated that he was a miserable signing - I don't really rate what that fat loser has to say.

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01-28-2013, 04:36 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Habbybirthday View Post
Gauthier was terrible.

I'm sure you all saw the Jaroslav Spacek interview last year. Saying it was the worst and most defunctional management he ever played for.
that's all you need.
Yup. I'm really glad he's gone.

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01-28-2013, 05:25 PM
  #100
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Considering that Jacques went on L'antichambre and stated that he was a miserable signing - I don't really rate what that fat loser has to say.
He traded cammy mid game. That is defunctional. moves like that is what caused the bad mantra on the ice, in the dressing room. The players did'nt respect him. Gauthier was terrible as a GM. Have you ever worked for a boss where you are always saying "why the **** would he do that". it does'nt help your work preformance probably you would want to quit, and your attitude towards work would be in the gutter. like the players were last year.

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