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01-28-2013, 05:53 AM
  #501
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I think this is such a foolish decision if his ultimate goal is the NHL.
I disagree and I've argued about this for quite a while. Why do people think the McNally is ready to turn pro? He's not ready to play pro. Why have him potentially get destroyed physically and mentally in pro. If he loses all confidence, what good does it do him? It's not worth it. Why spend years and potentially the rest of his life playing outside of the NHL? Especially when he's a Harvard kid.

People who want him to turn pro are being selfish, look at it in the kid's perspective. A 4th rounder, who at the time, was struggling this year. He's not exactly a top prospect like some hype him out to be. He's a project. You can't just throw a kid in Pro and hope he turns out alright and figures everything on his own.

The smartest thing he can do is, wait it out. It's whats best for his future.

By pro, It's ECHL or bust. He does not belong in the AHL right now. Far from it. He'd get killed in the AHL. Much better off staying on path, and developing his game in college hockey. You can't rush a project like him.


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01-28-2013, 10:08 AM
  #502
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I disagree and I've argued about this for quite a while. Why do people think the McNally is ready to turn pro? He's not ready to play pro. Why have him potentially get destroyed physically and mentally in pro. If he loses all confidence, what good does it do him? It's not worth it. Why spend years and potentially the rest of his life playing outside of the NHL? Especially when he's a Harvard kid.

People who want him to turn pro are being selfish, look at it in the kid's perspective. A 4th rounder, who at the time, was struggling this year. He's not exactly a top prospect like some hype him out to be. He's a project. You can't just throw a kid in Pro and hope he turns out alright and figures everything on his own.

The smartest thing he can do is, wait it out. It's whats best for his future.

By pro, It's ECHL or bust. He does not belong in the AHL right now. Far from it. He'd get killed in the AHL. Much better off staying on path, and developing his game in college hockey. You can't rush a project like him.
Killed in the AHL? In what way, hit hard?

I mean not all kids are Chris Tanev, but he wasn't killed in the AHL, took some nasty, dirty hits mind you, but he wasn't killed.

We can both argue until we're blue in the face about it, it won't change our opinions.

For him, getting the Harvard education is clearly his goal here.

To be fair, it's probably best to keep him away from our 'developlmental staff' until he's more of a finished product. I just don't like this kid sitting out a full season by choice, sort of shows me his goals moving forward and I don't like it.

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01-28-2013, 10:13 AM
  #503
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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I disagree and I've argued about this for quite a while. Why do people think the McNally is ready to turn pro? He's not ready to play pro. Why have him potentially get destroyed physically and mentally in pro. If he loses all confidence, what good does it do him? It's not worth it. Why spend years and potentially the rest of his life playing outside of the NHL? Especially when he's a Harvard kid.

People who want him to turn pro are being selfish, look at it in the kid's perspective. A 4th rounder, who at the time, was struggling this year. He's not exactly a top prospect like some hype him out to be. He's a project. You can't just throw a kid in Pro and hope he turns out alright and figures everything on his own.

The smartest thing he can do is, wait it out. It's whats best for his future.

By pro, It's ECHL or bust. He does not belong in the AHL right now. Far from it. He'd get killed in the AHL. Much better off staying on path, and developing his game in college hockey. You can't rush a project like him.
Add to it he's on a "Harvard" scholarship. The chances of him having a long prosperous nhl career are slim. A full Harvard degree is probably something a lot of people would like to fall back on.

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01-28-2013, 10:21 AM
  #504
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To be fair, it's probably best to keep him away from our 'developlmental staff' until he's more of a finished product. I just don't like this kid sitting out a full season by choice, sort of shows me his goals moving forward and I don't like it.
This may come as a surprise but I suspect McNally is a bit more interested in planning for his own future than joe blow Canuck fan is.

It's pretty tough to blame him for that, even if completely mindless pursuit of a spot on an NHL roster at the expense of everything else is better for the Canucks and for fans like you and me.

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01-28-2013, 10:25 AM
  #505
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Add to it he's on a "Harvard" scholarship. The chances of him having a long prosperous nhl career are slim. A full Harvard degree is probably something a lot of people would like to fall back on.
Harvard doesn't give full rides.
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This may come as a surprise but I suspect McNally is a bit more interested in planning for his own future than joe blow Canuck fan is.

It's pretty tough to blame him for that, even if completely mindless pursuit of a spot on an NHL roster at the expense of everything else is better for the Canucks and for fans like you and me.
That's why I said, if his ultimate goal is the NHL, he should go all-in....clearly it isn't.

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01-28-2013, 11:29 AM
  #506
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That's why I said, if his ultimate goal is the NHL, he should go all-in....clearly it isn't.
I think you're taking this too seriously. (And really you could make this same claim about any NCAA player, in principle.)

Maybe Manny shouldn't have missed a couple of chances to fight to salvage his NHL career rather than staying with his family while his son was born. Maybe Willie Mitchell should have rushed himself back into the lineup (on multiple occasions) rather than missing games until he felt comfortable returning.

These are human beings with ambitions (and needs) beyond what the NHL - or in McNally's case, an okay shot at being in the NHL - can deliver.

I don't think acknowledging that fact makes them worse NHL players necessarily.. maybe McNally has set his development back by sitting a year, that's his choice. But at the end of his collegiate career he still looks like he might have NHL talent and is ready to go pro, I don't see the point in holding his decision to stay against him.

Frankly to me the biggest question mark on McNally at this point isn't the choice to serve his suspension, it was the choice to cheat on an exam.

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01-28-2013, 12:16 PM
  #507
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Frankly to me the biggest question mark on McNally at this point isn't the choice to serve his suspension, it was the choice to cheat on an exam.
Which isn't really a big deal.

Most people kind of talk to each other about home exams...really it just means he has friends.

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01-28-2013, 12:22 PM
  #508
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Which isn't really a big deal.

Most people kind of talk to each other about home exams...really it just means he has friends.
This is one of the more creative attempts to gloss over it that I've read..

If I remember correctly the cheaters were all identified by the same grammatical error (an extra space following a period), somehow I doubt something like that would be the result of an honest mistake in your study group.

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01-28-2013, 12:50 PM
  #509
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This is one of the more creative attempts to gloss over it that I've read..

If I remember correctly the cheaters were all identified by the same grammatical error (an extra space following a period), somehow I doubt something like that would be the result of an honest mistake in your study group.
To be honest, I didn't realize the extent of the cheating.

If they were all straight up copying the same test, that's kind of stupid. I know that a large percentage of people that I went through CA school with copied off each other but most were smart enough to re-write answers. Some people were stupid enough to basically re-submit assignments with a different name on them and they generally got an automatic fail for that module.

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01-28-2013, 01:14 PM
  #510
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is Jeremy Price & Peter Andersson similar players in terms of what they bring to the table

the swiss army knife

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01-28-2013, 01:15 PM
  #511
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What an awful disservice it would be to convince a young man to leave a university like Harvard to play ECHL/AHL hockey.

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01-28-2013, 01:33 PM
  #512
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To be honest, I didn't realize the extent of the cheating.

If they were all straight up copying the same test, that's kind of stupid. I know that a large percentage of people that I went through CA school with copied off each other but most were smart enough to re-write answers. Some people were stupid enough to basically re-submit assignments with a different name on them and they generally got an automatic fail for that module.
That's all? You'd get expelled at my university, or at the very least put on strict probation.

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What an awful disservice it would be to convince a young man to leave a university like Harvard to play ECHL/AHL hockey.
There's no way to tell how sarcastic you're being but I think the point most people are trying to make is that he'll be accepted back to Harvard the minute his hockey career is over.

There are thousands of cases of a players missing time and having it end up extremely detrimental to their progress; frankly I'm shocked at how many people are brushing aside the negative effect a missed year of development can have on a player. It's so competitive to get to the NHL, literally any set back has the potential to ruin a career, whether that be injuries, suspensions, poor relationships with a coach- it's serious business.


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01-28-2013, 02:05 PM
  #513
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That's all? You'd get expelled at my university, or at the very least put on strict probation.
Would they really? Do you know anyone who has been caught or are you just saying that?

Havard didn't expel their guys. I know people from SFU who were caught plagiarizing and they weren't expelled.

In the case I'm discussing, it isn't a college or university but a professional training program.

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01-28-2013, 02:23 PM
  #514
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There are thousands of cases of a players missing time and having it end up extremely detrimental to their progress; frankly I'm shocked at how many people are brushing aside the negative effect a missed year of development can have on a player. It's so competitive to get to the NHL, literally any set back has the potential to ruin a career, whether that be injuries, suspensions, poor relationships with a coach- it's serious business.
I don't think it's being "brushed aside," personally.

McNally made a disappointing decision to cheat and its affected his academic and athletic career.

A year off is most definitely a setback, however in this particular season I think it's pretty easy to make the case that McNally is best served waiting and rejoining the league that was originally determined to be best for his development - does anyone seriously think that in the 2012-13 lockout year, when all sorts of prospects are fighting and clawing just to get AHL time (and many of them failing), that bouncing around the minor pro circuit is going to be good for McNally's growth, confidence or skill development?

If he was going to get spoonfed ice time with the Wolves I'd think it was a good thing for him to turn pro and just work out the kinks at that level, but this is just a weird season and I think the further you are down an organization's depth chart the worse the impact.

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01-28-2013, 02:39 PM
  #515
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Killed in the AHL? In what way, hit hard?

I mean not all kids are Chris Tanev, but he wasn't killed in the AHL, took some nasty, dirty hits mind you, but he wasn't killed.

We can both argue until we're blue in the face about it, it won't change our opinions.

For him, getting the Harvard education is clearly his goal here.

To be fair, it's probably best to keep him away from our 'developlmental staff' until he's more of a finished product. I just don't like this kid sitting out a full season by choice, sort of shows me his goals moving forward and I don't like it.
He's not physically developed yet, he's not conditioned yet to play twice every week, he's not developed properly to be in the AHL. His defensive game is way off, he was struggling offensively this season. He's way too much of a project right now. You can't compare him to Chris Tanev, who was playing against bigger guys his whole life.

You don't have to like it, but it isn't about you. You're being selfish. It's the kids future were talking about here. Just because he is going to take the year off, doesn't mean he isn't committed in playing in the NHL. You gotta be smart about it, rushing him into pro, when he's clearly not ready is another way of destroying a kids career. At least if he stays in Harvard, he'll at least have a backup plan. Goal in life should be trying to be as successful as you can. Anyone on this board can dream of being in the NHL, it just doesn't mean it'll happen. You gotta be realistic. Lots of prospects have huge potential, but it's not a given that they'll be in the NHL. Living a life of a journeymen isn't exactly glamorous. He's better off sitting in an office 5 days a week, making the same 6 figures then wasting his life playing in the ECHL/AHL. Hell, how disappointing would he and his family be, if he ended up like Patrick White. playing hockey is a full time commitment whether your good or not. Only people who have nothing else to turn back to, would make that decision to play in a small league, making little money, and be far away from the fam.


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01-28-2013, 05:08 PM
  #516
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He's not physically developed yet, he's not conditioned yet to play twice every week, he's not developed properly to be in the AHL. His defensive game is way off, he was struggling offensively this season. He's way too much of a project right now. You can't compare him to Chris Tanev, who was playing against bigger guys his whole life.

You don't have to like it, but it isn't about you. You're being selfish. It's the kids future were talking about here. Just because he is going to take the year off, doesn't mean he isn't committed in playing in the NHL. You gotta be smart about it, rushing him into pro, when he's clearly not ready is another way of destroying a kids career. At least if he stays in Harvard, he'll at least have a backup plan. Goal in life should be trying to be as successful as you can. Anyone on this board can dream of being in the NHL, it just doesn't mean it'll happen. You gotta be realistic. Lots of prospects have huge potential, but it's not a given that they'll be in the NHL. Living a life of a journeymen isn't exactly glamorous. He's better off sitting in an office 5 days a week, making the same 6 figures then wasting his life playing in the ECHL/AHL. Hell, how disappointing would he and his family be, if he ended up like Patrick White. playing hockey is a full time commitment whether your good or not. Only people who have nothing else to turn back to, would make that decision to play in a small league, making little money, and be far away from the fam.
He could always go back to Harvard if it doesn't work out, right? Once you're in, you're in for life - or at least that's what I thought.

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01-28-2013, 05:20 PM
  #517
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He could always go back to Harvard if it doesn't work out, right? Once you're in, you're in for life - or at least that's what I thought.
Playing pro hockey would void his scholarship

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01-28-2013, 05:22 PM
  #518
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He's not physically developed yet, he's not conditioned yet to play twice every week, he's not developed properly to be in the AHL. His defensive game is way off, he was struggling offensively this season. He's way too much of a project right now. You can't compare him to Chris Tanev, who was playing against bigger guys his whole life.

You don't have to like it, but it isn't about you. You're being selfish. It's the kids future were talking about here. Just because he is going to take the year off, doesn't mean he isn't committed in playing in the NHL. You gotta be smart about it, rushing him into pro, when he's clearly not ready is another way of destroying a kids career. At least if he stays in Harvard, he'll at least have a backup plan. Goal in life should be trying to be as successful as you can. Anyone on this board can dream of being in the NHL, it just doesn't mean it'll happen. You gotta be realistic. Lots of prospects have huge potential, but it's not a given that they'll be in the NHL. Living a life of a journeymen isn't exactly glamorous. He's better off sitting in an office 5 days a week, making the same 6 figures then wasting his life playing in the ECHL/AHL. Hell, how disappointing would he and his family be, if he ended up like Patrick White. playing hockey is a full time commitment whether your good or not. Only people who have nothing else to turn back to, would make that decision to play in a small league, making little money, and be far away from the fam.
He played 7 games this year. Hardly the sample to make the claim he was 'struggling'.

You may have seen Harvard play, I haven't so....


Now for the last part, of course I'm being selfish, isn't that what sports fans are? We can all pretend we care, but I don't, if this kid is going to be a player, I want him playing and I want it now....It's a very 21st century way of thinking.


Unrelated to hockey, but I'm one of those people, who doesn't think too much of 'prestige' when it comes to education, there are a lot of really smart successful people who go to no name schools.

If you're smart and driven, you'll be successful.

By the way Rey, you should post more....I remember not always agreeing with you in the CDC hey day, but at least you stuck to your guns.

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01-28-2013, 05:27 PM
  #519
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Playing pro hockey would void his scholarship
http://www.gocrimson.com/information...ng/helpfulinfo

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Does Harvard offer scholarships?

No. As an Ivy League institution, Harvard does not offer athletic or academic scholarships to students. However, Harvard does provide need-based financial aid to those students who demonstrate financial need.
Harvard does not give scholarships.

His NCAA eligibility would be void, that may have been what you meant to say.

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01-28-2013, 05:28 PM
  #520
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http://www.gocrimson.com/information...ng/helpfulinfo



Harvard does not give scholarships.

His NCAA eligibility would be void, that may have been what you meant to say.
Yeah, that's precisely what I meant. Been really tired lately, hardly got any sleep on the weekend studying for exams.

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01-28-2013, 06:02 PM
  #521
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If he isn't getting an athletic scholarship, then why not go for it, if he can just come back later? I'd imagine there's no greater chance to earn big money then now if he's even got half a mind to play in the NHL. If it doesn't work out, that's fine. Nothing's changed anyway.

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01-28-2013, 06:09 PM
  #522
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http://www.gocrimson.com/information...ng/helpfulinfo



Harvard does not give scholarships.

His NCAA eligibility would be void, that may have been what you meant to say.
A girl I graduated with had some sort of scholarship to Harvard, I don't know how it worked though.

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01-28-2013, 06:10 PM
  #523
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A girl I graduated with had some sort of scholarship to Harvard, I don't know how it worked though.
That would have been financial aid, not a scholarship.

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01-28-2013, 07:20 PM
  #524
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That would have been financial aid, not a scholarship.
They announced as a scholarship. I did not know her well, but they announced with others getting scholarships, most were athletic, hers was not. This was 13 years ago.

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01-28-2013, 08:35 PM
  #525
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He could always go back to Harvard if it doesn't work out, right? Once you're in, you're in for life - or at least that's what I thought.
Basically you're right about that, although it's possible that some egregious acts would get you both fired and expunged from the records. Which they threatened my freshman classmates and me with in regard to plagiarism, way back in the day.

But they said you could come and go more or less as it suited you. I suppose there was understood to be a constructive reason for an absence; Gates, Zuckerberg, or a professional hockey player would be welcomed back with open arms.

About scholarships: as The Crimson says, there aren't athletic scholarships per se. But the majority of students is on scholarship, and strangely to say, so are the athletes whom they recruit to play sports at Harvard. Somehow it might work out that a suspended athlete has his scholarship renewed upon returning to school . . .

McNally has burned one NCAA year of eligibility, however, by starting the current season.

Morgan Rielly played 18 games in 2011-12 before his season-ending injury. Evan McEneny played only two games before sustaining his. One is pretty close to a PPG average this year, while the other, less-offensive one is around a .5 PPG. Not bad at all, considering all the time they missed and rehab they had to do. McNally didn't have a major injury to heal and then rehab from, he was skating with a junior team soon after his suspension, and no doubt he is training now as I posted about earlier. His situation isn't a good one, but there's precedent for a return to form and a good outcome down the line.

Finally, it is what it is, as a famous hockey philosopher once said. A mistake was made, a family decision was then made, and apparently the Canucks are OK with it. Gillis singled out "McNally at Harvard" in a recent interview as a promising Dman in the pipeline. Chicago will have to absorb a wave of three new Dmen next season anyway, and they don't need a fourth one right now with Andersson an AHL rookie. What's happened has happened. It's done. There's no real point in agonizing about it. To me, McNally's future still looks pretty bright for a fourth-rounder.

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