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01-28-2013, 11:03 AM
  #426
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I get that. And I enjoy talking trades as much as the next guy. I'm just not sure how anyone can have a strong grasp on what this team is, what their strengths and weaknesses are, and what they might need five games in. Especially with the schedule they've had to date.
I think the framework is there. In its most basic form, the team could use another depth forward and a cheap defenseman capable of taking a regular shift.

But it is too early to target particular players.

Radek Dvorak, for instance, is someone who I dont really think would help this team in any tangible way. The strongest case for him is "Hey, that guy has an awesome name and I sort of remember him from 12 years ago."

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01-28-2013, 11:03 AM
  #427
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OK, how about forward depth?
It's still too broad. But let's work off that. What exaclty are you basing the idea that Rangers need forward depth on?

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01-28-2013, 11:07 AM
  #428
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The Rangers traded 4 assets for Nash. Where are the assets coming from to make another significant trade? Let's not play the Neil Smith games where the Rangers traded multiple assets in 93-96 to win right now. They won in 1994 but it damaged the team for many years to come. Who is to say the Rangers with Amonte and Gartner would not have beaten Jersey? They handled them during the regular season and it was a struggle in the playoffs. They traded a #1 pick for Verbeek because they couldn't put the puck in the ocean. They lost Amonte and Gartner the previous spring. Then swapped 2 young players for Robitaille and Samuelsson. Then they swapped Norstrom for the ex-Oilers. There is salary cap now so its a different league but the Rangers still need the young and cheap assets if they want to be a good team in the future. Any major rental will come with a #1 pick and/or top young player price tag. Gaustad went for a #1 pick last February. The Rangers can't do that.

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01-28-2013, 11:10 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
It's still too broad. But let's work off that. What exaclty are you basing the idea that Rangers need forward depth on?
Well so far, with 2 injuries only, we've seen:

- Bickel play forward
- Newbury in the lineup
- Rupp on the third line

And if a top 3 center goes down we'd potentially have Halpern and Newbury as bottom two centers.

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01-28-2013, 11:12 AM
  #430
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The Rangers traded 4 assets for Nash. Where are the assets coming from to make another significant trade? Let's not play the Neil Smith games where the Rangers traded multiple assets in 93-96 to win right now. They won in 1994 but it damaged the team for many years to come. Who is to say the Rangers with Amonte and Gartner would not have beaten Jersey? They handled them during the regular season and it was a struggle in the playoffs. They traded a #1 pick for Verbeek because they couldn't put the puck in the ocean. They lost Amonte and Gartner the previous spring. Then swapped 2 young players for Robitaille and Samuelsson. Then they swapped Norstrom for the ex-Oilers. There is salary cap now so its a different league but the Rangers still need the young and cheap assets if they want to be a good team in the future. Any major rental will come with a #1 pick and/or top young player price tag. Gaustad went for a #1 pick last February. The Rangers can't do that.
Significant trades are out of the question in my opinion.

Depth guys need to be targeted - preferably on 1 year deals.

The Rangers can afford to part with B-level prospects that dont have a likely future with the organization. Christian Thomas and a 3rd is probably the best package they'd be able to offer around the league. Something like that.

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01-28-2013, 11:12 AM
  #431
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I think the framework is there. In its most basic form, the team could use another depth forward and a cheap defenseman capable of taking a regular shift.
I'll agree with the comment on defense. I maintained over the summer that the Rangers can't ice a team with both Stralman and Bickel in the everyday line-up.

To the idea of forward depth, I still don't know because the forwards have undergone the most change and there are still a ton of questions that need to be answered before changes can or need to be made:

1) Does the Gaborik-Richards-Nash line stay intact? They've looked good in the games they've won. Now, is that because they were great or because the Rangers won. I'd argue a bit of both.

2) If the Gaborik-Richards-Nash doesn't stay intact, doesn't that, in theory, that add to the team's depth?

3) Isn't this idea of a lack of depth being highlighted because of Stepan, Callahan and Hagelin's slow starts and Kreider looking like a rookie?

These are three pretty big questions that need to answered (and I don't think 5 games with the schedule they've had) is enough time to really have an answer.

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01-28-2013, 11:14 AM
  #432
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- Bickel play forward
- Newbury in the lineup
- Rupp on the third line
Again, they haven't lost because of those three things.

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01-28-2013, 11:15 AM
  #433
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Significant trades are out of the question in my opinion.

Depth guys need to be targeted - preferably on 1 year deals.

The Rangers can afford to part with B-level prospects that dont have a likely future with the organization. Christian Thomas and a 3rd is probably the best package they'd be able to offer around the league. Something like that.
Exactly. I don't think the Rangers could swing a Jarome Iginla trade (as if Feaster will ever sell anyways). Float Thomas, St. Croix, draft picks out there for a 3rd line winger and a #5 defenseman.

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01-28-2013, 11:19 AM
  #434
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Again, they haven't lost because of those three things.
You should become a financial planner.

"I can't see any all-encompassing reason why you're poor, don't change a thing."

I;m not reacting to past losses.The idea is if you improve the lineup in any way, you're improving the chances of future wins.

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01-28-2013, 11:19 AM
  #435
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Exactly. I don't think the Rangers could swing a Jarome Iginla trade (as if Feaster will ever sell anyways). Float Thomas, St. Croix, draft picks out there for a 3rd line winger and a #5 defenseman.
Retort:

How do we know the Rangers need, as they head into the postseason, will be a 3rd line winger and a #5 defenseman. You can make a good argument that those two things are needs now. But what about 20 games from now.

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01-28-2013, 11:21 AM
  #436
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The Rangers traded 4 assets for Nash. Where are the assets coming from to make another significant trade? Let's not play the Neil Smith games where the Rangers traded multiple assets in 93-96 to win right now. They won in 1994 but it damaged the team for many years to come. Who is to say the Rangers with Amonte and Gartner would not have beaten Jersey? They handled them during the regular season and it was a struggle in the playoffs. They traded a #1 pick for Verbeek because they couldn't put the puck in the ocean. They lost Amonte and Gartner the previous spring. Then swapped 2 young players for Robitaille and Samuelsson. Then they swapped Norstrom for the ex-Oilers. There is salary cap now so its a different league but the Rangers still need the young and cheap assets if they want to be a good team in the future. Any major rental will come with a #1 pick and/or top young player price tag. Gaustad went for a #1 pick last February. The Rangers can't do that.
I agree with a lot of this. My only response would be that unlike the end of the Smith era, the drafting has improved and the Rangers of late have not been as willing to treat 1st and second round picks as throw-ins for trades.

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01-28-2013, 11:21 AM
  #437
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The reason I want Dvorak is because all it takes is (1) significant injury for the Rangers to be playing Kris Newbury in the everyday line-up and with the way this team blocks shots, that is going to happen.

He isn't anything special but he is a very good PKer and a good depth forward in terms of speed and forechecking ability.

Moore makes the most sense for the simple reason that he is another superb PKer, difficult to play against and can play any forward position.

I am by no means calling for major changes, just looking at acquiring a depth forward for insurance purposes because I don't feel the Rangers can afford to deal very much at the deadline with the loss of Erixon and their 1st already this year.

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01-28-2013, 11:23 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Retort:

How do we know the Rangers need, as they head into the postseason, will be a 3rd line winger and a #5 defenseman. You can make a good argument that those two things are needs now. But what about 20 games from now.
I couldn't imagine what would happen that would make them not needs 20 games from now, but I would envision those things being trade deadline moves anyway. If they have an opportunity to add a versatile depth forward without giving up any assets now (ie. Moore, Morrison), I would jump all over it.

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01-28-2013, 11:24 AM
  #439
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Retort:

How do we know the Rangers need, as they head into the postseason, will be a 3rd line winger and a #5 defenseman. You can make a good argument that those two things are needs now. But what about 20 games from now.
This is very true and I entirely agree with your points SBOB.

To -31-'s comment though, Iginla is the type of player you can add at any time and he will be a benefit. But Calgary is not trading him right now. I think you can get Iginla with MSC, Thomas, and a draft pick plus a roster player. Restock on forwards at the draft. Calgary has a front row seat to MSC's talent. He could intrigue them.

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01-28-2013, 11:31 AM
  #440
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This is very true and I entirely agree with your points SBOB.

To -31-'s comment though, Iginla is the type of player you can add at any time and he will be a benefit. But Calgary is not trading him right now. I think you can get Iginla with MSC, Thomas, and a draft pick plus a roster player. Restock on forwards at the draft. Calgary has a front row seat to MSC's talent. He could intrigue them.
I sincerely doubt that.

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01-28-2013, 11:36 AM
  #441
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I sincerely doubt that.
What do you think other teams are offering for a UFA to be who will more likely than not return to CGY after the season is over?

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01-28-2013, 11:39 AM
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What do you think other teams are offering for a UFA to be who will more likely than not return to CGY after the season is over?
High-end UFA rentals typically get a roster player, a prospect and a high draft pick.

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01-28-2013, 11:40 AM
  #443
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What do you think other teams are offering for a UFA to be who will more likely than not return to CGY after the season is over?
Hossa was traded for a 1st rounder, the team's first rounder the year before, an elite 3rd line winger and, well, Erik Christensen at the 2008 deadline.

I'd imagine a similar return for Iginla.

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01-28-2013, 11:41 AM
  #444
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This is very true and I entirely agree with your points SBOB.

To -31-'s comment though, Iginla is the type of player you can add at any time and he will be a benefit. But Calgary is not trading him right now. I think you can get Iginla with MSC, Thomas, and a draft pick plus a roster player. Restock on forwards at the draft. Calgary has a front row seat to MSC's talent. He could intrigue them.
Who is this mystery "roster player" you speak of?

Im sure Calgary would be interested if it was a Stepan or Del Zotto, but something tells me that not where you're heading.

Iginla has seemingly been on the block forever. Calgary is a mess right now, but I think its likely he ends his career with them.

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01-28-2013, 11:43 AM
  #445
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The Rangers traded 4 assets for Nash. Where are the assets coming from to make another significant trade? Let's not play the Neil Smith games where the Rangers traded multiple assets in 93-96 to win right now. They won in 1994 but it damaged the team for many years to come. Who is to say the Rangers with Amonte and Gartner would not have beaten Jersey? They handled them during the regular season and it was a struggle in the playoffs. They traded a #1 pick for Verbeek because they couldn't put the puck in the ocean. They lost Amonte and Gartner the previous spring. Then swapped 2 young players for Robitaille and Samuelsson. Then they swapped Norstrom for the ex-Oilers. There is salary cap now so its a different league but the Rangers still need the young and cheap assets if they want to be a good team in the future. Any major rental will come with a #1 pick and/or top young player price tag. Gaustad went for a #1 pick last February. The Rangers can't do that.
+one billion.

I've always felt the Rangers could have still won the Cup in 94 without those trades. And could have won more than one while keeping Amonte, Weight, Zubov, Gartner (who was aging, but was still very good).

Rangers sold their future for that Cup. No doubt about it.

They shouldn't make the same mistake.

Trading Gaborik in June at the draft, while retaining our young core players, and adding to the system, is the smart thing to do.

But that's June.

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01-28-2013, 11:46 AM
  #446
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Hossa was traded for a 1st rounder, the team's first rounder the year before, an elite 3rd line winger and, well, Erik Christensen at the 2008 deadline.

I'd imagine a similar return for Iginla.
I get what you're saying but that's not apples for apples. Hossa was 29-30 years of age at the time. The season before he had 100 points. He had 56 points up until the trade that year. Granted he wasnt on pace to match his total the season before but in Pittsburgh's eyes he was still a 100 point player the year before and he would be joining malkin, crosby, staal. And Hossa also had 90+ points the year before the 100 point season.

Iginla is 35 years old. He had 67 points the year before. It's not the same value.

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01-28-2013, 11:48 AM
  #447
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Again, they haven't lost because of those three things.
Directly, no... They sure as hell didn't help though.

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01-28-2013, 11:48 AM
  #448
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Who is this mystery "roster player" you speak of?

Im sure Calgary would be interested if it was a Stepan or Del Zotto, but something tells me that not where you're heading.

Iginla has seemingly been on the block forever. Calgary is a mess right now, but I think its likely he ends his career with them.
Listen I was not going into great detail. I threw out a couple of prospects names because they are not on the current roster. Also like SBOB has been saying we don't know what the team will look like in 15-20 games as the deadline approaches. One of our roster players might be more expendable then and who knows who it would or will be.

And of course I'm not here offering up Stepan or MDZ.

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01-28-2013, 11:49 AM
  #449
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Guys, this is the Jason Arnott thread. If you want to discuss rumors or potential trades please head over the Rumors thread.

Thanks

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01-28-2013, 11:50 AM
  #450
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Hossa was traded for a 1st rounder, the team's first rounder the year before, an elite 3rd line winger and, well, Erik Christensen at the 2008 deadline.

I'd imagine a similar return for Iginla.
No. Hossa was much younger. Ignla is what 35? Hossa was 27 or 28?

Big difference.

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