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The "Trade _______ Right ******* NOW" Thread

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Old
01-25-2013, 08:51 AM
  #126
Winger98
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I disagree. Quincey has been beyond brutal since we traded for him, but going into the playoffs last year we needed a defensemen - especially since we knew Lidstrom and Stuart were leaving. Quincey was the right choice to go after, he was younger than any of the other defensemen actually being traded and it seemed like a long term solution. Quincey would not have been the first defensemen with some decencies but equal amounts of promise to turn it around in another city.

Did it work out? Did it look great at the time? Both answers are no, but the thinking was sound. The biggest issues, as you've said, is that Holland hasn't landed any top end talent. If we landed Suter over the summer, this whole Quincey thing is just another Lilja bash - meaning, it's irrelevant, but good board fodder.
Not to mention the cost of assets being thrown around for other players. Gaustad was a 4th line center and got moved for a first. It'd be nice if we could have moved our pick and a prospect for something more significant last February, but I have a feeling such a deal just wasn't out there.

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01-25-2013, 08:52 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I disagree. Quincey has been beyond brutal since we traded for him, but going into the playoffs last year we needed a defensemen - especially since we knew Lidstrom and Stuart were leaving. Quincey was the right choice to go after, he was younger than any of the other defensemen actually being traded and it seemed like a long term solution. Quincey would not have been the first defensemen with some decencies but equal amounts of promise to turn it around in another city.

Did it work out? Did it look great at the time? Both answers are no, but the thinking was sound. The biggest issues, as you've said, is that Holland hasn't landed any top end talent. If we landed Suter over the summer, this whole Quincey thing is just another Lilja bash - meaning, it's irrelevant, but good board fodder.
Indeed we did need another dman that season, but why not just call up Smith? Also, Babcock wanted Smith on the team, why not let him play the final 20-30 games with the big club and get him some needed experience then?

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01-25-2013, 08:54 AM
  #128
Heaton
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Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
Indeed we did need another dman that season, but why not just call up Smith? Also, Babcock wanted Smith on the team, why not let him play the final 20-30 games with the big club and get him some needed experience then?
Because we needed a defensemen past the season as well. Smith would've been fine and we could've just signed someone in the offseason, but the thinking process was to solve the future issues right then.

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01-25-2013, 09:48 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Because we needed a defensemen past the season as well. Smith would've been fine and we could've just signed someone in the offseason, but the thinking process was to solve the future issues right then.
The sad thing is, Q-Tip has always seemed like a huge jackhole. Didn't he do an interview right after he was waived where he kinda-sorta took a shot at the Wings?

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01-25-2013, 09:57 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
The sad thing is, Q-Tip has always seemed like a huge jackhole. Didn't he do an interview right after he was waived where he kinda-sorta took a shot at the Wings?
No, I think it was perceived that he took a shot at Colorado.

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01-25-2013, 10:07 AM
  #131
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No, I think it was perceived that he took a shot at Colorado.
That's how I remember it too.

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01-25-2013, 10:23 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
No, I think it was perceived that he took a shot at Colorado.
I'll have to see if I can dig that up, but I swear I remember being somewhat offended at a comment he made.

Also, Mezaros could be out for a while for the Flyers... SEND QUEASY OUT EAST, HOLLAND! DO EEET!

Edit: After thinking about it -- A LOT -- I'm pretty sure it was an interview between periods when he was playing for the Kings where he said something about Detroit "not knowing what they're missing;" but of course, I can't find any record of it at all, so I'll just chalk it up to "making **** up" and dislike him for his current play instead.


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01-25-2013, 11:15 AM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I disagree. Quincey has been beyond brutal since we traded for him, but going into the playoffs last year we needed a defensemen - especially since we knew Lidstrom and Stuart were leaving. Quincey was the right choice to go after, he was younger than any of the other defensemen actually being traded and it seemed like a long term solution. Quincey would not have been the first defensemen with some decencies but equal amounts of promise to turn it around in another city.

Did it work out? Did it look great at the time? Both answers are no, but the thinking was sound. The biggest issues, as you've said, is that Holland hasn't landed any top end talent. If we landed Suter over the summer, this whole Quincey thing is just another Lilja bash - meaning, it's irrelevant, but good board fodder.
yah no i can agree we needed a defenceman, i just dont think quincey was the type of dman we needed. I think given that inevitable loss of lidstrom and stuart which had to be well known for a while within the mgmt team a better plan should have been in place and acted upon sooner by being more aggressive to land via any number of ways a younger skilled dman who could play in our top 3 and thrive . I think waiting and hoping and praying for suter was a mistake and knowing the chances of landing him given the competition would be firece, a dman like quincey was a bigger mistake. if holland and co couldnt land said player then acquiring a guy like hal gill and keeping that first round pick to draft another dman would probably have made more sense.

its not quinceys fault, its just he is in an enviroment that he cant succeed. we probably needed at the deadline a more stay at home physical dman knowing that this year would see a lot more defensive mistakes then we were used too, not a defensively unreliable player like Q. Q isnt good enough to fit the role we need right now nor the role of the players we have lost(lidstrom, rafalski, stuart).

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01-25-2013, 01:19 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
yah no i can agree we needed a defenceman, i just dont think quincey was the type of dman we needed. I think given that inevitable loss of lidstrom and stuart which had to be well known for a while within the mgmt team a better plan should have been in place and acted upon sooner by being more aggressive to land via any number of ways a younger skilled dman who could play in our top 3 and thrive . I think waiting and hoping and praying for suter was a mistake and knowing the chances of landing him given the competition would be firece, a dman like quincey was a bigger mistake. if holland and co couldnt land said player then acquiring a guy like hal gill and keeping that first round pick to draft another dman would probably have made more sense.

its not quinceys fault, its just he is in an enviroment that he cant succeed. we probably needed at the deadline a more stay at home physical dman knowing that this year would see a lot more defensive mistakes then we were used too, not a defensively unreliable player like Q. Q isnt good enough to fit the role we need right now nor the role of the players we have lost(lidstrom, rafalski, stuart).
could've used grossman who did not cost a first rounder. of course we would have had to have been aggressive in resigning him before free agency as philly was. but holland was willing to give up more for a guy who had rfa status.

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01-25-2013, 01:53 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I disagree. Quincey has been beyond brutal since we traded for him, but going into the playoffs last year we needed a defensemen - especially since we knew Lidstrom and Stuart were leaving. Quincey was the right choice to go after, he was younger than any of the other defensemen actually being traded and it seemed like a long term solution. Quincey would not have been the first defensemen with some decencies but equal amounts of promise to turn it around in another city.

Did it work out? Did it look great at the time? Both answers are no, but the thinking was sound. The biggest issues, as you've said, is that Holland hasn't landed any top end talent. If we landed Suter over the summer, this whole Quincey thing is just another Lilja bash - meaning, it's irrelevant, but good board fodder.
That's a load and half, Heaton.
1. Did we need defense going into the playoffs?

Lidstrom/Kronwall/Stuart/Ericsson/White/Kindl/Smith/Commodore/Janik?

No. In the the short term, there was absolutely NO NEED for Quincey.
Quincey went out and proved that, beyond the shadow of a doubt, when he got here and STUNK for and the team won about about 5 of 23 games (including the playoffs)

2. Did we need Quincey long term?
Again, the answer is NO.
Since we didn't need him short term, that means we can take care of our longer team need in unrestricted free agency. And there were any number of better options than Quincey. Especially options who better fitour needs.

Reduce it to a Lilja-bash if you like.
But the Quincey chapter is about the dumbest Red Wings transaction chapter since.... drafting Murphy over Carson and then trading Murphy and everyone else to get Carson, only to watch Carson fade.

As Debacles go, the Quincey chapter is pretty minor.

But it highlights a glaring chink in Ken Holland's armor.

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01-25-2013, 03:08 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
That's a load and half, Heaton.
Not really. Especially since I'm not defending it as a good trade - but the idea behind the trade made sense. The Wings DID need to bolster the defense going into the playoffs. Smith, Kindl, Janik and Commodore are not top 4 guys (or weren't at the time), which is what Holland was trying to replace - obviously it didn't work out.

As for the guys in free agency - the top 2 guys were Suter and Carle - Holland obviously missed on both, which was a major mistake.

It didn't work out and looked dumb since we waived Quincey in the first place, but it really only looked as bad as it did because we waived him. That's undeniable. On that note, I'm with anyone who wants to get rid of him as quickly as possible.

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01-25-2013, 04:17 PM
  #137
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Quincey was reportedly unhappy with Wings management because he didn't receive a ring in 2008

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01-25-2013, 04:21 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Quincey was reportedly unhappy with Wings management because he didn't receive a ring in 2008
Thus Holland has to trade to get him back in 2012.

If he liked what he saw, he shoulda put a ring on it.

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01-25-2013, 04:29 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
Thus Holland has to trade to get him back in 2012.

If he liked what he saw, he shoulda put a ring on it.
haha allright that was pretty good..

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01-25-2013, 05:32 PM
  #140
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What id like see is a trade now for a guy like Robyn Regehr or Douglas Murray or Volchenkov.

Ie, Cleary + for Reghr... a 3rd rounder + prospect (or Quincey) for Doug Murray.

Kronwall Ericsson
Smith Regehr (Regehr was a good partner for a young Phaneuf)
Murray White
Kindl
(CC is IR'd allyear ... who are we kidding)

This isnt the prettiest d-corps in the world ... but it balances a puck mover with a big steady guy on each pairing and at the very least will make us harder to play against and take the physical strain off our smaller dmen.

Get Dekeyser come hell of high water this year.
Bring Ouellet along quicker than Smith ... 2 years AHL max.
If Kindl grabs a spot by the balls this year and runs with it let White walk this summer and use his cap-space to give Filp/Howie a raise.

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01-26-2013, 12:35 AM
  #141
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Apparently Jamie McBain is getting a regular healthy scratch in Carolina these days. Maybe there's a match there. He's young, big, skilled, mobile, and righthanded. Not exactly a defensive ace, but...

If he's not in the Canes' plans, maybe there's a move to be made.

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01-26-2013, 12:55 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
Indeed we did need another dman that season, but why not just call up Smith? Also, Babcock wanted Smith on the team, why not let him play the final 20-30 games with the big club and get him some needed experience then?
I know Babcock said this in an interview, but the fact remains that when he did have Smith available to him he either sat him as a healthy scratch or played him very sparingly on the 3rd pairing.

When it comes to younger players, they have a very limited window to make an impression on Babs or they are pushed aside for veterans. Its happened to Mursak, Kindl, and Nyquist as well.

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01-26-2013, 01:31 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
Apparently Jamie McBain is getting a regular healthy scratch in Carolina these days. Maybe there's a match there. He's young, big, skilled, mobile, and righthanded. Not exactly a defensive ace, but...

If he's not in the Canes' plans, maybe there's a move to be made.
We will see, he drew back in after they started the season poorly in the first couple of outings.

I am a big McBain fan, really if they are unloading him and it isn't super expensive I would be pretty happy. He did play a bit with Smith for the Badgers, although Smith is one of our few lefties comfortable on the right.

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01-26-2013, 08:13 AM
  #144
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What id like see is a trade now for a guy like Robyn Regehr or Douglas Murray or Volchenkov.

Ie, Cleary + for Reghr... a 3rd rounder + prospect (or Quincey) for Doug Murray.
Huskins brings a lot of the same things Murray does. Regehr brings everything Murray does and is a better player. If we're adding Regehr, why would we also then add Murray at the cost of prospect+? We'd be better off with Regehr working with Kindl on his defensive and physical game.

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We will see, he drew back in after they started the season poorly in the first couple of outings.

I am a big McBain fan, really if they are unloading him and it isn't super expensive I would be pretty happy. He did play a bit with Smith for the Badgers, although Smith is one of our few lefties comfortable on the right.
McBain would be interesting, but I wonder at the price. The Carolina defensemen that have always really interested me are Pitkanen and Gleason. I would wonder if a move around one of those two might be possible given McBain's situation and the fact that moving one of them might put him in a situation to succeed. It might sound backwards, but let's think hopeful thoughts.

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01-28-2013, 10:41 AM
  #145
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After watching a couple of games, I think we need to make a long term investment on defense. A side from Kronwall and Smith, none of our d-men have long term top pairing potential (I'm not including our prospects in this).

The way I see it, we need to give quality in order to get quality. The one guy I don't want to give up on but might not be a bad idea if we get a top d-man in return is Nyquist. I'm not sure if the Jets will bite, but I would not mind giving away Nyquist + Kindl + 1st (Which is likely significant considering our struggles this year) for Bogosian.

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01-28-2013, 10:52 AM
  #146
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I was originally opposed to trying to acquire P.K. Subban (via either trade or offer sheet) but the idea is growing on me. I think he'd be a great fit, it's obviously an area of great need, the Canadians (from what I've read) cannot go too high [on his contract] without being in a cap crunch, and that would give us a very solid top four for the next decade (once Ouellet and Sproul are ready):

Subban Sproul
Ouellet Smith


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01-28-2013, 10:52 AM
  #147
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After watching a couple of games, I think we need to make a long term investment on defense. A side from Kronwall and Smith, none of our d-men have long term top pairing potential (I'm not including our prospects in this).

The way I see it, we need to give quality in order to get quality. The one guy I don't want to give up on but might not be a bad idea if we get a top d-man in return is Nyquist. I'm not sure if the Jets will bite, but I would not mind giving away Nyquist + Kindl + 1st (Which is likely significant considering our struggles this year) for Bogosian.
Jets fans will bark at you for it, as they quote their GM as saying they are building their D around him for years to come. I would be on board with it, but I am doubtful as to the Jets willingness to follow through on that type of move.

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01-28-2013, 12:15 PM
  #148
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We are not getting Subban. He will negotiate a contract with Montreal or they will trade his rights to a team that can actually afford him. Simple as that. We have nothing to offer Montreal that they need except for picks (which might end up being a high round pick) or overpaying big time.

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01-28-2013, 12:18 PM
  #149
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Subban is not a good fit either, don't even want him.

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01-28-2013, 12:19 PM
  #150
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We are not getting Subban. He will negotiate a contract with Montreal or they will trade his rights to a team that can actually afford him. Simple as that. We have nothing to offer Montreal that they need except for picks (which might end up being a high round pick) or overpaying big time.
I see you have a crystal ball. Tell me, when am I gonna meet my significant other?

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