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Jason Arnott fails physical; Deal with NYR off

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01-28-2013, 11:50 AM
  #451
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Again, they haven't lost because of those three things.
Disagree with the premise of your point. Simply put, the Rangers have been struggling because, outside of the the top line, no one seems to be aware of what their role is. Until you have the players to play defined roles on the roster, you have a team that's going to struggle. Bickel, Newbury, 3rd line Rupp aren't causes of the problem but they are definitely symptoms of it.

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01-28-2013, 11:51 AM
  #452
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
No. Hossa was much younger. Ignla is what 35? Hossa was 27 or 28?

Big difference.
For a pure rental, I don't think it matters much. Iginla would pretty much be the guy I'd like to take into the playoffs.

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01-28-2013, 11:54 AM
  #453
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I couldn't imagine what would happen that would make them not needs 20 games from now
I can. Kreider becomes responsible in all three zones and Hagelin starts scoring.

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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
If they have an opportunity to add a versatile depth forward without giving up any assets now (ie. Moore, Morrison), I would jump all over it.
But they are giving up assets. Cap space is an asset.

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01-28-2013, 11:54 AM
  #454
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Rangers traded 4 assets for Nash. Where are the assets coming from to make another significant trade? Let's not play the Neil Smith games where the Rangers traded multiple assets in 93-96 to win right now. They won in 1994 but it damaged the team for many years to come. Who is to say the Rangers with Amonte and Gartner would not have beaten Jersey? They handled them during the regular season and it was a struggle in the playoffs. They traded a #1 pick for Verbeek because they couldn't put the puck in the ocean. They lost Amonte and Gartner the previous spring. Then swapped 2 young players for Robitaille and Samuelsson. Then they swapped Norstrom for the ex-Oilers. There is salary cap now so its a different league but the Rangers still need the young and cheap assets if they want to be a good team in the future. Any major rental will come with a #1 pick and/or top young player price tag. Gaustad went for a #1 pick last February. The Rangers can't do that.
I agree, which is why i dont want any trades right now. id like to pick up an UFA on a 1 year deal to help the bottom2 lines which have looked between mediocre and just flat out horrendous at times.

i cant even remember 1 good shift our 4th line has had all season so far.

anyways...Dvorak, Moore, im all for it, as long as its a 1 year deal.

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01-28-2013, 11:59 AM
  #455
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
But they are giving up assets. Cap space is an asset.
According to CapGeek, after the Arnott signing, which obviously isn't happening, the Rangers would have $7,667,707 in deadline cap space. That's certainly enough to fill my needs. So they could add up to $1.6 million in salary without having much effect.

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01-28-2013, 12:08 PM
  #456
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We should have kept Prust. I don't see how Slats would replace him.
We do not have a shutdown line, particularly a shutdown C, something like Tim Taylor Torts use to have in TB. Arnott was a step in that direction, Dvorak is not a centre, but he maight do the things Prust used to do, except for fighting, but those guys we've got plenty for now. There should be no panic, unless Torts has hinted to Sather that he signed garbage in offseason.

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01-28-2013, 12:16 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
I agree, which is why i dont want any trades right now. id like to pick up an UFA on a 1 year deal to help the bottom2 lines which have looked between mediocre and just flat out horrendous at times.

i cant even remember 1 good shift our 4th line has had all season so far.

anyways...Dvorak, Moore, im all for it, as long as its a 1 year deal.
This is the side I fall on.

Adding depth to the roster is fine, but 5 games in is a bit early to be making more roster changes even with the shortened season and no matter how bad some of those first games have been. With the short camp and some players not playing during the lockout it will take some time to see if they can get their mojo going.

Besides Torts still has at least a couple hundred line combinations he hasn't tried.

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01-28-2013, 12:20 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
We should have kept Prust. I don't see how Slats would replace him.
We do not have a shutdown line, particularly a shutdown C, something like Tim Taylor Torts use to have in TB. Arnott was a step in that direction, Dvorak is not a centre, but he maight do the things Prust used to do, except for fighting, but those guys we've got plenty for now. There should be no panic, unless Torts has hinted to Sather that he signed garbage in offseason.
And why would Torts hint at that? As if Torts wasn't in on the decision making? Sather knows what type of coach he has and what type of players he would want because he would consult him on it. Plus he has Gorton and others as supporting staff.

There is no issue with the signings. The team just hasn't had time to gel, find out the right line combos plus they do need a little more depth. Pyatt has 3 goals. Halpern has had good legs and has looked fine on the PK; I had actually be ok with him getting a little more ice time especially for faceoff reasons. And as much as I despised Asham, he hasn't looked bad. They just need more depth.

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01-28-2013, 12:21 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
We do not have a shutdown line, particularly a shutdown C
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz

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01-28-2013, 12:25 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
And why would Torts hint at that? As if Torts wasn't in on the decision making? Sather knows what type of coach he has and what type of players he would want because he would consult him on it. Plus he has Gorton and others as supporting staff.

There is no issue with the signings. The team just hasn't had time to gel, find out the right line combos plus they do need a little more depth. Pyatt has 3 goals. Halpern has had good legs and has looked fine on the PK; I had actually be ok with him getting a little more ice time especially for faceoff reasons. And as much as I despised Asham, he hasn't looked bad. They just need more depth.
As mentioned earlier in this thread. If Halpern is to get more ice time because of his faceoff ability (which he has proven to have in the past, no denying), he needs to start winning them. 34% is worse than Stepan in his rookie year

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01-28-2013, 12:28 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by SixGoalieSystem View Post
As mentioned earlier in this thread. If Halpern is to get more ice time because of his faceoff ability (which he has proven to have in the past, no denying), he needs to start winning them. 34% is worse than Stepan in his rookie year
I agree. I think you need to pick your spots to let him gain some momentum/confidence with the faceoffs. But we'll see. I still like his game and don't think he has hurt us at all on the ice.

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01-28-2013, 12:32 PM
  #462
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People have to realize that Halpern has had little to no help on the wings so far which goes a long way to winning faceoffs and the Rangers have played multiple teams with guys who are annually at the top of the league in face-off percentage.

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01-28-2013, 12:35 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by SixGoalieSystem View Post
As mentioned earlier in this thread. If Halpern is to get more ice time because of his faceoff ability (which he has proven to have in the past, no denying), he needs to start winning them. 34% is worse than Stepan in his rookie year

but as even you admitted it has been a small sample size. He was brought here for his faceoff ability (something else arnott could have helped with) and they aren't using him for it, doesn't make sense. He didn't take any against Toronto or the last game against Boston, and in the other 2 games he wasn't that bad, so really he had one bad faceoff game, and that was against boston who can throw bergeron out there.

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01-28-2013, 12:38 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
People have to realize that Halpern has had little to no help on the wings so far which goes a long way to winning faceoffs and the Rangers have played multiple teams with guys who are annually at the top of the league in face-off percentage.
That's very true and I agree with both you and RGY. Halpern hasn't hurt the team and I think he'll find a spot on this team in the end. But even considering the points you mentioned, his FO% needs to approve if Torts is gonna trust him to be a go to guy.

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01-28-2013, 01:40 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
No. Hossa was much younger. Ignla is what 35? Hossa was 27 or 28?

Big difference.
You don't think Iginla will bring back a #1 pick(at the very least) as a rental? Paul Gaustad and a 4th round pick in 2013 went to Nashville for #1 pick in 2012. He was a rental.

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01-28-2013, 01:53 PM
  #466
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Arnott is far from a never been/was. Maybe the Rangers wanted him to add depth (a hall of fame cup winning guy) on the bottom lines. Nothing wrong with that.
Didn't say that he was--Arnott falls in the second category, washed up mercenary veteran without a contract 10 days after the season starts.

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01-28-2013, 01:59 PM
  #467
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You don't think Iginla will bring back a #1 pick(at the very least) as a rental? Paul Gaustad and a 4th round pick in 2013 went to Nashville for #1 pick in 2012. He was a rental.
While I understand what you are saying RB, last year's crop at the deadline was not much to choose from thus inflating the prices. I highly doubt a Gaustad type player garners a 1st round pick this year. More like a 2nd round pick or a 3rd round pick and a prospect which would've been the correct value for Gaustad. I do believe there will be more players available this time around with the amount of expiring contracts out there. Teams that are out or even bubble teams will try and get something for those players.

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01-28-2013, 02:11 PM
  #468
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We should have kept Prust. I don't see how Slats would replace him.
We do not have a shutdown line, particularly a shutdown C, something like Tim Taylor Torts use to have in TB. Arnott was a step in that direction, Dvorak is not a centre, but he maight do the things Prust used to do, except for fighting, but those guys we've got plenty for now. There should be no panic, unless Torts has hinted to Sather that he signed garbage in offseason.

Should have kept Prust? Sure. Not for 2.5M for 4 years though.

And Arnott was not a step in the right direction as far as completing a shut-down line. He's not a better defensive forward than Boyle. He's not as good as Boyle is on faceoffs either.

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01-28-2013, 02:14 PM
  #469
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I would love to have Prust on this team but the deal he got was flat out insane. I'd have been pissed if Sather matched that.

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01-28-2013, 02:15 PM
  #470
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Why we should want Subban?
We have a great D! yes, we could use better 6th dman, but Subban is not a 6th dman. our top 4 is gold.
You can't be serious! Our defense doesn't put the fear of God into anybody especially along the boards and in front of the net.
Subban would easily be the #1 defenseman on our team if he were here. We dont have one lousy defenseman on our team as presently constituted who can take a big forward off the puck in the crease area. All they do collectively is flail their sticks at the puck instead of making an attempt to take the body!

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01-28-2013, 02:17 PM
  #471
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I would love to have Prust on this team but the deal he got was flat out insane. I'd have been pissed if Sather matched that.
Agree 100%. We all loved Prust but 10 mil over 4 years for a guy who scores 5-7 goals is ridiculous!

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01-28-2013, 02:17 PM
  #472
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Subban would easily be the #1 defenseman on our team if he were here.
I blame Youtube.

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01-28-2013, 02:18 PM
  #473
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You can't be serious! Our defense doesn't put the fear of God into anybody especially along the boards and in front of the net.
Subban would easily be the #1 defenseman on our team if he were here. We dont have one lousy defenseman on our team as presently constituted who can take a big forward off the puck in the crease area. All they do collectively is flail their sticks at the puck instead of making an attempt to take the body!
Nevermind the assets and money it would take, which is insane to begin with.

But while Subban's talent is undeniable, he also doesnt have his head on straight. Call it immaturity, call it what you will, but its a problem. And it wouldnt fly with Torts and the environment hes tried to create here. And no amount of "BIG HITZ!!!" is going to change that.

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01-28-2013, 02:23 PM
  #474
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You can't be serious! Our defense doesn't put the fear of God into anybody especially along the boards and in front of the net.
Subban would easily be the #1 defenseman on our team if he were here. We dont have one lousy defenseman on our team as presently constituted who can take a big forward off the puck in the crease area. All they do collectively is flail their sticks at the puck instead of making an attempt to take the body!
Wait, wait, wait....Subban would be our #1? Have you watched the kid play? Sorry but a #1 defenseman is someone who provides a solid all around game, and if there is any attribute that can be neglected while being a #1 defenseman it is the offensive side of the game. Subban is far from a solid defensive defenseman. He can throw the big hits but that doesn't make him a #1. Sorry, no dice. He has been undisciplined and taken himself out of position. I have watched him a lot in his first full year being up at school in Boston. He can be a horror show in his own end at times. Watch the kid play before you make statements like that. He only put up 30+ points the last two years. He has logged at least a 100+ penalty minutes in the last two seasons. He is 23 years old not some 18 year old blue chip prospect.

I'm not saying we couldn't use a tough rugged defenseman to intimidate guys but Subban is not a #1 defenseman so we should not in any sensible way be paying for him both in assets and in money.

And last time I checked we made it to game 6 of the ECF with the same defense as last year.

EDIT:

No Rangers defenseman logged more than 44 PIM other than Stu Bickel who was at 108. Staal had 16 at 46 GP which would be on pace for let's say 30 PIM. McDonagh had 44 PIM in his first full season. THAT is true immaturity. What Subban's totals have been is a liability and a poor excuse for a "defenseman."

I don't want to hear it anymore about him.

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01-28-2013, 02:25 PM
  #475
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I don't think Subban is that great in front his own net, at least not better than who the Rangers currently have, but maybe I'm wrong.

He's a great skater with a good shot, defensively responsible and will look to make the big hit. He's a very good overall package but the price to get him wouldn't make it worthwhile. edit: in response to the above, I agree he can take himself out of position for a hit but he's pretty good defensively overall when he focuses on it. He got tons of hard minutes in the past year and did well all things considered on a team that was lacking in many areas around him.

And I think the Habs front office is the ones who don't have their heads on straight. While it is kind of dumb for Subban to be holding out at this point, it's also dumb for the Habs to be holding to a 2 year deal for approximately what Del Zotto makes...Subban is a better player than Del Zotto right now and it's fairly agreed upon that Del Zotto's contract is very favorable to the Rangers.

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