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David Desharnais Discussion (Slow Start & Contact Talk)

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01-28-2013, 10:30 AM
  #101
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by IWalkThroughWalls View Post
I'm not against it. Anyway, DD isn't exactly great at faceoffs either.
He had about the same % as Plekanec and Gomez last year.

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01-28-2013, 10:31 AM
  #102
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When Cole played with Staal, he also played against the oppositions best forwards. Last year this was not the case, since Plekanec and even Eller faced stronger lines on average.

This doesn't mean Desharnais' passing didn't help Cole make the most of his siituation. But saying he had a career year last year, might be superficially true, but it ignores context.
Yeah, all this "opposition best forwards" thing again. I understand the point, but some people make it sound like it's real science.

Habs best line last year was DD's line, Habs toughest line to play against last year was Plekanec's line.

Anaheims best line when they won the cup was Getzlaf's line, but the toughest to play against was Pahlsson's.

I'm not saying it's not not a factor, but It's surely more complex than some make it sound here.

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01-28-2013, 10:32 AM
  #103
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He had about the same % as Plekanec and Gomez last year.
Which doesn't preclude him of being not that great on the faceoff...

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01-28-2013, 10:38 AM
  #104
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Which doesn't preclude him of being not that great on the faceoff...
No but the alternatives are pretty much the same. Granted we no longer have Gomez but Eller wasn't good and plekanec ranges at 50ish percent as well.

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01-28-2013, 10:44 AM
  #105
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Well, okay, he didn't get a pass per say but...
There was never a question of him being a real NHL'er (well, okay, there were only a few delusional fans that felt that way about DD because of his size.).
There was no question that of Pleks being a real C (1st or 2nd or 3rd C).
There was no question that Pleks was only 'riding' on the success of his wingers.
Not so much with DD.
The only real argument last year with Pleks was whether or not he was 1st line C or 2nd line C. And I think most people felt if he wasn't a 1st line C, he would and is a great 2nd line C.
Well that's the thing, we know what we get with Plekanec. Outside of a few people who hate him, it's hard to dispute what Plekanec is - an above average two way center who will give you 50 to 70 points while playing difficult minutes, not to mention elite PK ability and good PP minutes. He won't get you over a PPG and even if he did, it would probably be inefficient and a waste of his defensive talents. He's not a 1C who will carry a team but he can play on the 1st or 2nd line depending on the supporting cast and the context. He's not quite Bergeron, Mikko Koivu or Mike Richards, but he's still above average at this role.

Even last year despite playing an even more defensive role than usual with little supporting cast and a revolving door of grinders as wingers, he still got 52 points.

Desharnais still has a while to go before we can say what he is as clearly as we can with Plekanec, despite only being 3 years younger.

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Originally Posted by IWalkThroughWalls View Post
Yeah, all this "opposition best forwards" thing again. I understand the point, but some people make it sound like it's real science.

Habs best line last year was DD's line, Habs toughest line to play against last year was Plekanec's line.

Anaheims best line when they won the cup was Getzlaf's line, but the toughest to play against was Pahlsson's.

I'm not saying it's not not a factor, but It's surely more complex than some make it sound here.
Well, I think the reason it's brought up so often is because despite that lines statistical success, it didn't really work. The Habs were terrible last year, and were only getting consistent offence from that one line and to an extent Plekanec, and part of it was that Plekanec and Eller were given the heavy lifting matchups wise and no offensive help on the wings. Eller, for all the skepticism, actually produced decent offense for his role. This is not to blame the DD line for that situation, it was the coaching, but the only way that sort of lopsided offense works is if you have Sedin-like output.

This is not writing off DD's offense and guys like Briere show that small one-way playmakers can definitely perform, but as long as Galchenyuk plays the sheltered line role, DD is probably best off as a winger.


Last edited by Et le But: 01-28-2013 at 10:53 AM.
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Old
01-28-2013, 12:20 PM
  #106
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Implying that people are racists because they do not like DD is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! The fact that you want to give a "gars de chez nous" a spot over someone more deserving is racist.
-Desharnais has elite vision... see Markov and get back to me
-Desharnais can't handle hot passes, rolls off his stick most of the time
-Desharnais has a below average shot
-Desharnais is a slow skater
-Desharnais is always one step behind the play
-Desharnais is average on face offs
-Desharnais can't play wing due to the things I listed here

Where does that leave him? Maybe a second line center in the AHL, a pp specialist who can be called up in case of injuries. But to pretend he's the number one center and we should give him 5 million$ a year over 5 years is a joke and what frustrates me the most and is the reason why I'm extra harsh with him. It is nothing personal, but I hope people can see the truth behind all this propaganda. How many times over the last 15 years we've overpaid a local guy that turned out to be busts? Calling me and some others racists because we want to see the best team possible whatever language the players and coaches speak is racist itself.

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01-28-2013, 12:35 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Implying that people are racists because they do not like DD is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! The fact that you want to give a "gars de chez nous" a spot over someone more deserving is racist.
-Desharnais has elite vision... see Markov and get back to me
-Desharnais can't handle hot passes, rolls off his stick most of the time
-Desharnais has a below average shot
-Desharnais is a slow skater
-Desharnais is always one step behind the play
-Desharnais is average on face offs
-Desharnais can't play wing due to the things I listed here

Where does that leave him? Maybe a second line center in the AHL, a pp specialist who can be called up in case of injuries. But to pretend he's the number one center and we should give him 5 million$ a year over 5 years is a joke and what frustrates me the most and is the reason why I'm extra harsh with him. It is nothing personal, but I hope people can see the truth behind all this propaganda. How many times over the last 15 years we've overpaid a local guy that turned out to be busts? Calling me and some others racists because we want to see the best team possible whatever language the players and coaches speak is racist itself.
Well said. Alot of people drank too much DD koolaid and wanted to trade Pleks over the summer. He's had one good season and now that other teams know what he brings to the table. That first line with Cole and Patches were effectively shut down. DD is a 3rd line center at best going forward once AG27 is ready to play on the first line.

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Old
01-28-2013, 12:37 PM
  #108
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not sure what to think of him yet. i gotta see more

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01-28-2013, 12:41 PM
  #109
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lol at people attacking Eller to defend Desharnais. It's kind of pathetic how a team with limited forward talent has a fanbase that wants to chase their forwards out of town to prop up their favourite. Reminds me of the we "must" trade Plekanec threads last year.

Both Desharnais and Eller are struggling. Desharnais is overmatched in a harder minutes role, especially with his wingers failing to produce, Eller has zero confidence and no role on the team. Realistically, neither one has a future on this team at this rate.
I don't think Eller is struggling he's only played two games..One on a third line and the other out of his natural position at wing.

I thought he had a decent game last night.
Nothing special but wasn't out of place.

I really believe the issue is Desharnais. He doesn't have the jump in his stride like he did last year and seems to be hesitating a lot.

Once Desharnais finds his game again I think this line with Eller or Pacioretty will find the back of the net again.

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Old
01-28-2013, 01:18 PM
  #110
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People are acting like we hate Desharnais because we want him to move to wing. Why not try it? If Eller played at the wing yesterday and it didn't work why not change things up. It's not like Desharnais is very good defensively and on faceoffs. Eller is probably our 2nd best defensive forward on the team and he can't really show that playing on the wing. Desharnais won't lose his playmaking skills because of playing on the wing.

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01-28-2013, 01:21 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Pineapples View Post
People are acting like we hate Desharnais because we want him to move to wing. Why not try it? If Eller played at the wing yesterday and it didn't work why not change things up. It's not like Desharnais is very good defensively and on faceoffs. Eller is probably our 2nd best defensive forward on the team and he can't really show that playing on the wing. Desharnais won't lose his playmaking skills because of playing on the wing.
The guy is 5'6. 170 pounds for godsake. Playing him on a wing is suicidal.

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01-28-2013, 01:25 PM
  #112
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The guy is 5'6. 170 pounds for godsake. Playing him on a wing is suicidal.
See Martin St Louis.

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Old
01-28-2013, 01:28 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
The guy is 5'6. 170 pounds for godsake. Playing him on a wing is suicidal.
To be fair look at St.Louis and Gionta. Size isn't everything for a winger but if you don't have it you must have exceptional speed, grit, shot, and hockey sense. DD fails in most of those categories and is why he should never be a winger.

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01-28-2013, 01:33 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
The guy is 5'6. 170 pounds for godsake. Playing him on a wing is suicidal.
God, and playing in a more defensive position 1st line forward where you're trying to guard mostly 6 foot + players isn't?

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01-28-2013, 02:12 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
The guy is 5'6. 170 pounds for godsake. Playing him on a wing is suicidal.
How are Gionta and Gallagher still alive?

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01-28-2013, 02:38 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by iwalkthroughwalls View Post
i'm not against it. Anyway, dd isn't exactly great at faceoffs either.
Desharnais: 678 693 1371 49.4
Plekanec: 824 854 1678 49.1

Considering that after the first month DD was hovering around 40% I'd say he was pretty freaking good at faceoffs last season.

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01-28-2013, 02:44 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
The guy is 5'6. 170 pounds for godsake. Playing him on a wing is suicidal.
And playing him in a more defensive role as center is not?

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01-28-2013, 03:09 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Implying that people are racists because they do not like DD is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! The fact that you want to give a "gars de chez nous" a spot over someone more deserving is racist.
-Desharnais has elite vision... see Markov and get back to me
-Desharnais can't handle hot passes, rolls off his stick most of the time
-Desharnais has a below average shot
-Desharnais is a slow skater
-Desharnais is always one step behind the play
-Desharnais is average on face offs
-Desharnais can't play wing due to the things I listed here

Where does that leave him? Maybe a second line center in the AHL, a pp specialist who can be called up in case of injuries. But to pretend he's the number one center and we should give him 5 million$ a year over 5 years is a joke and what frustrates me the most and is the reason why I'm extra harsh with him. It is nothing personal, but I hope people can see the truth behind all this propaganda. How many times over the last 15 years we've overpaid a local guy that turned out to be busts? Calling me and some others racists because we want to see the best team possible whatever language the players and coaches speak is racist itself.
I'm not a french DD fanboy but he does have really solid vision... Maybe not Markov level but he has shown he has the vision needed to pivot a NHL top 6 line, and move the puck creatively with top line wingers to make a line consistently productive.

The other stuff you mentioned is mostly true though and a potential problem and reasons why maybe the Habs shouldn't be offering him a 5 year extension but to call him a AHL centre is ridiculous.

So far this season I think Cole is holding that line back too. He really missed not having a training camp and pre-season cuz he showed up rusty and slightly out of shape and you can tell his timing is off.

I would expect them both to be improved by the time Pacioretty is back.

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01-28-2013, 07:05 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Implying that people are racists because they do not like DD is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! The fact that you want to give a "gars de chez nous" a spot over someone more deserving is racist.
-Desharnais has elite vision... see Markov and get back to me
-Desharnais can't handle hot passes, rolls off his stick most of the time
-Desharnais has a below average shot
-Desharnais is a slow skater
-Desharnais is always one step behind the play
-Desharnais is average on face offs
-Desharnais can't play wing due to the things I listed here

Where does that leave him? Maybe a second line center in the AHL, a pp specialist who can be called up in case of injuries. But to pretend he's the number one center and we should give him 5 million$ a year over 5 years is a joke and what frustrates me the most and is the reason why I'm extra harsh with him. It is nothing personal, but I hope people can see the truth behind all this propaganda. How many times over the last 15 years we've overpaid a local guy that turned out to be busts? Calling me and some others racists because we want to see the best team possible whatever language the players and coaches speak is racist itself.
Seriously, are you 11 years old? How many hockey games have you watched in your life? 20? 30?

To say that Desharnais is "maybe a 2nd line AHL center" is only detrimental to your own credibility, and I hope you're aware of it. To see other people agreeing with you makes me puke...

Geez... I miss the time when you could come here and have serious hockey discussions...

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01-28-2013, 08:04 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Seriously, are you 11 years old? How many hockey games have you watched in your life? 20? 30?

To say that Desharnais is "maybe a 2nd line AHL center" is only detrimental to your own credibility, and I hope you're aware of it. To see other people agreeing with you makes me puke...

Geez... I miss the time when you could come here and have serious hockey discussions...
Ahh yes, one of the posters who says you're racist if you don't like Desharnais.

The faster you realize he doesn't belong in the nhl the better for you.

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01-28-2013, 08:39 PM
  #121
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The faster you realize he doesn't belong in the nhl the better for you.
I think this sums up very well the high caliber hockey knowledges that the DD haters bring to this thread. Thank you for your contribution. Adding to this would be useless.

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01-28-2013, 08:40 PM
  #122
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Ahh yes, one of the posters who says you're racist if you don't like Desharnais.

The faster you realize he doesn't belong in the nhl the better for you.
Thank God you're not running this team.

We really don't need trolls like you on this board.

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01-28-2013, 08:42 PM
  #123
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I am somewhere in the middle. I like Desharnais. I think he has good coordination, is strong for his size, tenacious and a smart passer. But I also still have doubts. Have to see him play more.

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01-28-2013, 09:07 PM
  #124
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And now desharnais doesn't have his place in a NHL team?

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:03 PM
  #125
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Ahh yes, one of the posters who says you're racist if you don't like Desharnais.

The faster you realize he doesn't belong in the nhl the better for you.
The guy destroyed the AHL. Even if he's not NHL caliber in your mind(which he is), how is he a 2nd line center in AHL? Doesn't even make sense.

I'm not french either but wow. You wonder why some people think comments like this are from haters. 2nd line center in AHL.

How is he wrong for calling you out? Any logical person would agree what you said made little sense.

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