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for a Leafs rebuild!

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Old
01-28-2013, 07:55 AM
  #51
416Leafer
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Either rebuild or not.

No need for Richards if we're trading for futures. All that would do is make our pick worse
Oh and that isn't enough for Phaneuf. Burns got more than that and no salary was retained
Richards addresses a bunch of key needs. C position, defensive play from forwards, physical play from forwards/centres, and he's signed longterm.

We're already likely near the bottom, removing Phaneuf means we're probably closer to it when the seasons over.

This would give us Richards + Bernier + Coyle (or Dumba) + ~mid to late 1st + likely higher 1st from our own pick. It gives us a bunch of futures to go along with Rielly + Gardiner + JVR + etc.

I think it would give us a better rounded foundation, a better prospect pool, and between Bernier, Coyle, Rielly, this years 1st, etc, there would be a number of pieces ready to step up and make a difference within 2 years. And yes, arguably Minnesota would have to add another piece.

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Old
01-28-2013, 08:00 AM
  #52
Phion Keneuf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waitin425 View Post
Toronto loses
Kessel
Phaneuf
Grabs
Mac
Lilies
Cranston

Toronto adds
Reinhardt
Couture
Kane
Hjalmersson
McFarland
Chicago 1st
Nashville 2nd

Lol I wish

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Old
01-28-2013, 08:24 AM
  #53
waitin425
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Lol I wish
I thought it was pretty decent for a rebuild!

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Old
01-28-2013, 09:01 AM
  #54
FishManSam
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Toronto:

ROR
2nd

Colorado:

Phaneuf (Toronto retains 1.5mil)

Toronto:

2nd
4th

Pittsburgh:

MacArthur

Toronto:

1st
One of Saad/Pirri/McNeil/Teuvo

Chicago:

Grabovski (Toronto retains 1mil)

Toronto:

Conditional 3rd (Becomes 2nd if Franson re-signs)

Detroit:

Franson

Toronto:

1st

Nashville:

Liles
4th

I'm not going to make a Kessel proposal as it would create too much debate, but these are the potential trades that fit both team needs in a Toronto rebuild scenario.

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Old
01-28-2013, 09:11 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Frea_K View Post
So just throwing this out there. Ottawa has its top two centres locked up for the next three years, and we could use another defenseman next year to replace Gonchar. So I'm thinking it might benefit both to trade Mika Zibanejad for Phaneuf. Now im not suggesting straight up, some picks or B prospect would have to come from Ottawa as well. Now, in all seriousness, Ottawa and Toronto would never pull off this trade even if they were Buyers/Sellers respectively. It would still be a good option for Ottawa as they still have a couple years to groom a replacement for Spezza if he parts after his contract is up, but I really hope he retires a Senator.

Flame away.
God no. Phaneuf's not worth what they would want us to pay given the rivalry. I'd rather go after Yandle.

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Old
01-28-2013, 09:50 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
How long can a team re-build for? Is this a rebuild within a rebuild? Geez. Just try and make the playoffs for once.
Actually, what the Leafs having been doing over the past several years is nothing resembling a proper rebuild. Over the past four seasons, what we've seen in Toronto is Burke attempting to re-tool the Leafs without having any useable tools in the tool-box.

What the OP has suggested is a proper rebuild, hot another worthless re-tooling job. As a Leaf fan who is tired of seeing this team do things in an ass-backward fashion, I believe that a proper rebuild is crucial to this team's future chance of success. To that end, I do agree with the OP, but I don't think that he/she has gone far enough.

Moving out guys like Kessel, Phaneuf, and the others mentioned by the OP isn't enough; you have to cut even deeper than that if you want this team to eventually get better.

Personally, I would swap out Franson from the OP's list and replace him with Komisarek and I would also add Lupul and Kulemin (though I'd do so rather reluctantly) to the OP's list.

After that, draft well and let the prospects develop for a few years before exposing them to NHL-quality opponents. Also, while the new prospects are developing, only sign UFA's to short-term, stop-gap deals. That way, the team will have cap flexibility and the ability to add youth from the farm system to their NHL roster when it's ready to make the jump.

As for any potential trades, I would hope that each Leaf player mentioned (both here and in the OP) would garner a reasonable return mainly consisting of high picks and high-end prospects (since those are what the Leafs really need most right now).

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Old
01-28-2013, 10:19 AM
  #57
The Podium
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I'm sorry, what?!
You can laugh, but statistically he's on par with the likes of Kesler, Zajac, etc over the last couple seasons. Extremely underrated defensively.

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01-28-2013, 10:57 AM
  #58
Brewsky
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Tavares, Seguin, Van Riemsdyk, Phaneuf, Hamilton, Rielly, Gardiner, Colborne, Biggs, Finn, Ross, Frattin, Komorov, McKegg.

Could've been...oh what could've.

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:07 AM
  #59
The Big D
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Originally Posted by T M L View Post
No, Brian Burke pissed all those picks away in the worst trade in the history of the franchise... Kessel trade.

Burke has done a great job at building his most beloved team with those picks, Boston.
Tom Kurvers & Scott Neidermeyer say hi!

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:23 AM
  #60
Anth93
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What do Kings fans think of Kessel for Richards. Imagine he wasn't just acquired, does it make sense? Because it does for the Leafs.

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:23 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewsky View Post
Tavares, Seguin, Van Riemsdyk, Phaneuf, Hamilton, Rielly, Gardiner, Colborne, Biggs, Finn, Ross, Frattin, Komorov, McKegg.

Could've been...oh what could've.
That's why the former boss is unemployed.

Just ridiculously poor asset management.

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:47 AM
  #62
PADevil3034
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The Devils would love to add Kessel, but he'd probably be too expensive to even consider.

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:57 AM
  #63
Woll Smoth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewsky View Post
Tavares, Seguin, Van Riemsdyk, Phaneuf, Hamilton, Rielly, Gardiner, Colborne, Biggs, Finn, Ross, Frattin, Komorov, McKegg.

Could've been...oh what could've.
when was Tavares ever an option?

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Old
01-28-2013, 12:06 PM
  #64
416Leafer
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Originally Posted by Woll Smoth View Post
when was Tavares ever an option?
Rumoured deal was Toronto turned down a deal of our 7th overall pick (Kadri) + Kaberle + L. Schenn for the 1st overall pick (Tavares) at the draft.

Not sure how legitimate or not the rumour was though. At the time, most Leaf fans thought the price was outrageous. But given the rumoured deal, the OP should have removed JVR from what "could have been" since JVR was obviously acquired with L. Schenn.

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Old
01-28-2013, 12:39 PM
  #65
TOGuy14
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Rumoured deal was Toronto turned down a deal of our 7th overall pick (Kadri) + Kaberle + L. Schenn for the 1st overall pick (Tavares) at the draft.

Not sure how legitimate or not the rumour was though. At the time, most Leaf fans thought the price was outrageous. But given the rumoured deal, the OP should have removed JVR from what "could have been" since JVR was obviously acquired with L. Schenn.
Hell let's break it back one step farther:

Wasn't another rumored deal Jeff Carter + 1st for Kaberle, which Kaberle then vetoed?

Quote:
Cliff Fletcher rode into town in 2008, looking to crack skulls and move out bodies, after Leafs management mercifully cut JFJ loose years after they should have. On the docket was shipping out as many players as possibly to give a clean slate, and refreshed prospect cupboard, for Brian Burke, who was heading to Toronto in the worst kept secret of all-time.

One of the major deals on the table for Fletcher was Jeff Carter, in the midst of what would be a 29-goal season, and a first-round pick for Tomas Kaberle. Fletcher was probably drooling at the thought, but Kaberle nixed the idea, using his no-trade clause to stick around in Toronto with the rest of his NTC-haviní buddies.

Carter broke out huge the next season, scoring a career-high 46 goals and 84 points.

Especially with Mats Sundin leaving after the season, Carter was, and still is, the No. 1 centre the Leafs desperately needed.

The first-round pick turned into Luca Sbisa, which isnít anything special, but at the time could have given Toronto more flexibility to make other deals.
http://www.fiveminutesforfighting.co...r-history.html

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Old
01-28-2013, 12:50 PM
  #66
NYjetsTOleafs
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Carter for Voracek and a First
Kessel for blank and a first
edit: By blank I mean a player that has the caliber Voracek had before leaving CBJ

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Old
01-28-2013, 01:03 PM
  #67
Woll Smoth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Rumoured deal was Toronto turned down a deal of our 7th overall pick (Kadri) + Kaberle + L. Schenn for the 1st overall pick (Tavares) at the draft.

Not sure how legitimate or not the rumour was though. At the time, most Leaf fans thought the price was outrageous. But given the rumoured deal, the OP should have removed JVR from what "could have been" since JVR was obviously acquired with L. Schenn.
Never heard of that one, guess Biggs would go too since he was acquired through the Kaberle deal

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Old
01-28-2013, 01:13 PM
  #68
416Leafer
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Hell let's break it back one step farther:

Wasn't another rumored deal Jeff Carter + 1st for Kaberle, which Kaberle then vetoed?



http://www.fiveminutesforfighting.co...r-history.html
Haha there are MANY trades that if reversed + other trades made that were rumoured, the Leafs would be MUCH MUCH better, but that's also including hindsight. You could also add Rask as a player we'd have, Steen, etc.

At the end of the day though, you could say that about any organization. All teams make bad moves. But specifically the Kessel deal, Rask deal, Kaberle non-deal, Sundin non-deal, 2009 1st overall (Tavares) non-deal and maybe a few others have had a huge huge impact.

Unfortunately over the past 6-7 years, we've only had ~2 deals become steals for us (Gardiner/Lupul and Phaneuf + what is now Ashton), neither of which are as significant as the steals we sent the other way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woll Smoth View Post
Never heard of that one, guess Biggs would go too since he was acquired through the Kaberle deal
Yea, I wasn't sure if that was Biggs or Percy, was too lazy to check, and the OP talking about all the players we could have had only had Biggs. One is from the Philly and one was from Boston (+ one of those 1sts was moved with another pick to move up to grab Biggs).

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Old
01-28-2013, 01:21 PM
  #69
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Wings fan here and their PP needs a quick fix and they could use some experienced D. Here's the deal;

To the Wings;

Kessel
Komisarek

To the Leafs:

Filppula
Kindl
Tatar

Gives the Leafs a natural center that they've needed for a while, a young defenceman with some upside and a Top Prospect that can play now in the NHL.

Gives the Wings a sniper that they need for the PP and to play with either Dats or Zee who are great playmakers and Komisarek who needs change in scenery and whose size would benefit the Wings given they dodn't play "Big" on the back end.

Let me know your thoughts....

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Old
01-28-2013, 01:28 PM
  #70
416Leafer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus View Post
To the Wings;

Kessel
Komisarek

To the Leafs:

Filppula
Kindl
Tatar
It's probably pretty fair value, but the Leafs would probably prefer to take 2 pieces with a higher value central piece coming back over 3 pieces of pretty good value. Tatar is probably a notch below the type of prospect Leafs would be looking for is my guess.

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Old
01-28-2013, 01:35 PM
  #71
StarsFan74
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
If Dallas was interested I'd ask for Jamieson Oleksiak.
Untouchables are Benn, Eriksson, Kari, and Oleksiak...for now. I might even add Eakin to the list pretty soon.

Everyone else is available.

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Old
01-28-2013, 01:36 PM
  #72
Phion Keneuf
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
Untouchables are Benn, Eriksson, Kari, and Oleksiak...for now. I might even add Eakin to the list pretty soon.

Everyone else is available.
What's up with Chiasson and Smith?

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Old
01-28-2013, 01:39 PM
  #73
Four1 Lead
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
Untouchables are Benn, Eriksson, Kari, and Oleksiak...for now. I might even add Eakin to the list pretty soon.

Everyone else is available.
Oleksiak is far from untouchable.

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Old
01-28-2013, 01:42 PM
  #74
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Replace Kindl with Ericsson and leave Tatar in the deal...done?

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Old
01-28-2013, 01:47 PM
  #75
StarsFan74
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
What's up with Chiasson and Smith?
Available for the right price, I'd say.

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Originally Posted by Morgan Gardiner View Post
Oleksiak is far from untouchable.
And you'd know this how? Our defense is already undersized and we don't have any player with that kind of size and speed in our system- many teams do not. He also made it to the AHL ASG in his first season there.

So yeah, he is untouchable at this point.

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