HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Top 25 Slovakian Players Of All-Time – #3

View Poll Results: Top 25 Slovakian Players Of All-Time – #3
Marian Hossa 18 62.07%
Peter Bondra 4 13.79%
Zigmund Palffy 4 13.79%
Marian Gaborik 0 0%
Robert Svehla 0 0%
Lubomir Visnovsky 0 0%
Pavol Demitra 1 3.45%
Michal Handzus 0 0%
Vladimir Dzurilla 1 3.45%
Jozef Golonka 0 0%
Marian Stastny 0 0%
Anton Stastny 0 0%
Miroslav Satan 1 3.45%
Jozef Stόmpel 0 0%
Richard Zednik 0 0%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-28-2013, 09:13 AM
  #1
the edler
Inimitable
 
the edler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,478
vCash: 500
Top 25 Slovakian Players Of All-Time – #3

1. Peter Stastny
2. Zdeno Chara

the edler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 09:22 AM
  #2
MadArcand
We do not sow
 
MadArcand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pyke
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,595
vCash: 500
Hm, Bondra or Palffy? Or... Hossa (the heresy!)?

MadArcand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 11:32 AM
  #3
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,261
vCash: 500
Hossa, and I don't think it's close either.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 11:55 AM
  #4
MadArcand
We do not sow
 
MadArcand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pyke
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,595
vCash: 500
Purely by NHL careers, probably not.

MadArcand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 12:22 PM
  #5
jcbio11
Registered User
 
jcbio11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bratislava
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 1,967
vCash: 500
Two things -

Maybe the choices could be listed alphabetically, to avoid any sort of bias.

And is there any chance we make this a modern hockey only thing? (80s and onwards). I sometimes find it very difficult to compare players across eras. I mean where do we put Dzurilla? I can easily make an argument for him to be as high as number 2, yet I don't see him going anywhere in the top 5 this way.

jcbio11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 01:26 PM
  #6
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,894
vCash: 500
I'd vote for Nedomansky if he were in option.

Of the guys listed, I'd say Hossa by a hair over Palffy.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 01:44 PM
  #7
vadim sharifijanov
Registered User
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,348
vCash: 500
i see quite a bit of separation between hossa and palffy, personally. i love palffy and don't really care for hossa, but seems like hossa was just as impactful at his peak (goals finishes of 4, 4, 5, 6 and points finishes of 5 and 6) with a huge edge in longevity. hossa was not the greatest playoff performer over the course of his career, but he did outscore palffy's entire playoff career in one finals run with pittsburgh and came relatively close to it three other times.

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 01:46 PM
  #8
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i see quite a bit of separation between hossa and palffy, personally. i love palffy and don't really care for hossa, but seems like hossa was just as impactful at his peak (goals finishes of 4, 4, 5, 6 and points finishes of 5 and 6) with a huge edge in longevity. hossa was not the greatest playoff performer over the course of his career, but he did outscore palffy's entire playoff career in one finals run with pittsburgh and came relatively close to it three other times.
Hossa got a lot of points getting fed by Crosby in 2009, that's for sure. He's still probably the right answer here. I see Palffy as much more consistent offensively, though.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 02:03 PM
  #9
vadim sharifijanov
Registered User
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,348
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Hossa got a lot of points getting fed by Crosby in 2009, that's for sure. He's still probably the right answer here. I see Palffy as much more consistent offensively, though.
yeah, hossa doesn't deserve all that much credit for '08, especially when he crapped the bed in the playoffs on numerous other occasions. but it's still more than palffy.

in terms of consistency, that's kind of weird because i kind of see hossa as a rich man's mike gartner. i said in the last poll, i can't believe i'm turning around and marian hossa is at 400 goals and 900 points. but he basically scored 30 goals for a decade, from his second year until he went to chicago. for era, that's very impressive.

2000: 19th in goals, 61st in points
2001: 30th, 33rd
2002: 25th, 35th
2003: 4th, 14th
2004: 6th, 5th
2006: 12th, 11th (one goal from tying for top ten in both)
2007: 5th, 6th
2008: 29th, 44th
2009: 5th, 37th
...
2012: 31st, 12th


whereas palffy has five full seasons where he was at the level of hossa's best offensively, but couldn't really be counted on to be healthy for most of the rest of his career. factor in that hossa is a very good defensive winger and palffy was useless when not scoring and

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 02:08 PM
  #10
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,894
vCash: 500
Yeah, among NHLer, I think it's clearly Hossa, then Palffy, then Demitra, then Bondra. Maybe there's an argument for Bondra over Demitra; I dunno.

Dzurilla and Marian Stastny are the best of the non-Nedomansky non-NHL Slovaks - comparing them to the career NHLers is the hard part! (I realize Marian played in the NHL but most of his prime was in Europe).

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 02:13 PM
  #11
kmad
Riot Survivor
 
kmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,189
vCash: 500
Hard to reconcile Dzurilla being an option for the final round of the goalie list but barely being considered for the top five of Slovaks.

kmad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 02:15 PM
  #12
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
Hard to reconcile Dzurilla being an option for the final round of the goalie list but barely being considered for the top five of Slovaks.
I do think he should be considered for top 5. These poll threads are always very NHL-heavy though.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 02:34 PM
  #13
jcbio11
Registered User
 
jcbio11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bratislava
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 1,967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Yeah, among NHLer, I think it's clearly Hossa, then Palffy, then Demitra, then Bondra. Maybe there's an argument for Bondra over Demitra; I dunno.

Dzurilla and Marian Stastny are the best of the non-Nedomansky non-NHL Slovaks - comparing them to the career NHLers is the hard part! (I realize Marian played in the NHL but most of his prime was in Europe).
I have Bondra at #4, but I see where the Palffy over Bondra people are coming from (in other threads). What's your argument for Demitra (R.I.P.) over Bondra though? I believe it's impossible for Demitra to compete with 500 career NHL goals (dead puck era) and a two goal scoring wins.

jcbio11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 02:39 PM
  #14
kmad
Riot Survivor
 
kmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,189
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I do think he should be considered for top 5. These poll threads are always very NHL-heavy though.
Well, the NHL is the best concentration of talent in the sport of hockey. These poll threads should be NHL-heavy.

kmad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 02:41 PM
  #15
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbio11 View Post
I have Bondra at #4, but I see where the Palffy over Bondra people are coming from (in other threads). What's your argument for Demitra (R.I.P.) over Bondra though? I believe it's impossible for Demitra to compete with 500 career NHL goals (dead puck era) and a two goal scoring wins.
Demitra was top 10 in NHL points 3 times vs none for Bondra. That's a pretty big advantage in peak, though it's possible Bondra makes up for it in consistency. I haven't compared the two of them closely though.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 02:43 PM
  #16
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
Well, the NHL is the best concentration of talent in the sport of hockey. These poll threads should be NHL-heavy.
It is now, but in the 70s and with a few exceptions the 80s, players from Czechoslovakia were barred from playing in the NHL for political reasons, and it doesn't make sense that their talent just sprang from nowhere when they were allowed to join the NHL.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 03:08 PM
  #17
kmad
Riot Survivor
 
kmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,189
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
It is now, but in the 70s and with a few exceptions the 80s, players from Czechoslovakia were barred from playing in the NHL for political reasons, and it doesn't make sense that their talent just sprang from nowhere when they were allowed to join the NHL.
With the exception of the Stastnys, nobody from Czechoslovakia made much of an impact in the NHL until the early 90s (Stan Mikita doesn't count). That indicates to me an emerging hockey nation, but one that wasn't quite there yet.

kmad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 03:15 PM
  #18
Rob Scuderi
Registered User
 
Rob Scuderi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 2,708
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
With the exception of the Stastnys, nobody from Czechoslovakia made much of an impact in the NHL until the early 90s (Stan Mikita doesn't count). That indicates to me an emerging hockey nation, but one that wasn't quite there yet.
Yet their national team was capable of beating the Soviets. Looking at the performance of their national team in the World Championships and best on best tournaments is probably a better barometer.

How much credit the Slovaks vs Czechs on those teams deserve credit is the messy part.

Rob Scuderi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 03:18 PM
  #19
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
Yet their national team was capable of beating the Soviets. Looking at the performance of their national team in the World Championships and best on best tournaments is probably a better barometer.
I think it's true that for a variety of reasons, probably largely political, Czechoslovakia declined from the 70s to the 80s. I think that after the 1968 invasion, every great Czech or Slovak athlete wanted to join the national team to beat the Soviets, but by the early 80s, it had died down a little bit. This is just me wildly speculating, but it is true that the Czechoslovakian team saw much less success starting in the early 80s, and it couldn't all have been because the Stastnys defected.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 03:22 PM
  #20
jcbio11
Registered User
 
jcbio11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bratislava
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 1,967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
With the exception of the Stastnys, nobody from Czechoslovakia made much of an impact in the NHL until the early 90s (Stan Mikita doesn't count). That indicates to me an emerging hockey nation, but one that wasn't quite there yet.
What are you going on about? Maybe because almost nobody tried? Because they couldn't?

Or do you just think that all those great Slovaks and Czechs magically got good in the 90s?

Nobody made an impact in the NHL until the early 90s because they couldn't get out (iron curtain).

Shouldn't there be some basic history knowledge requirement to be able to post on the History board ?

jcbio11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 03:24 PM
  #21
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbio11 View Post
What are you going on about? Maybe because almost nobody tried? Because they couldn't?

Or do you just think that all those great Slovaks and Czechs magically got good in the 90s?

Nobody made an impact in the NHL until the early 90s because they couldn't get out (iron curtain).

Shouldn't there be some basic history knowledge requirement to be able to post on the History board ?
I'm old enough to remember communism, but I think a lot of posters here are too young to remember that the communist countries were not above punishing the families of defectors.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 03:31 PM
  #22
jcbio11
Registered User
 
jcbio11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bratislava
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 1,967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I'm old enough to remember communism, but I think a lot of posters here are too young to remember that the communist countries were not above punishing the families of defectors.
Yup, they were definitely not above that. In his book, Stastny says that this was one of his biggest worries. His family was fine in the end, but Czechoslovakia was really communism light when compared to Soviet Union, where the regime was much stricter.

jcbio11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 03:35 PM
  #23
Rob Scuderi
Registered User
 
Rob Scuderi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 2,708
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think it's true that for a variety of reasons, probably largely political, Czechoslovakia declined from the 70s to the 80s. I think that after the 1968 invasion, every great Czech or Slovak athlete wanted to join the national team to beat the Soviets, but by the early 80s, it had died down a little bit. This is just me wildly speculating, but it is true that the Czechoslovakian team saw much less success starting in the early 80s, and it couldn't all have been because the Stastnys defected.
As a fellow out of touch American, I like it. Definitely makes sense that would provide some extra motivation. Should common knowledge what it meant to Jagr at this point (see #68). They were playing back in the 20s and the Soviets essentially copied them when building their program, so the Czechoslovak hockey foundation was already there.

I know people point to lack of funding for the decline of some programs too, but I always thought that was a post-CSSR thing for some reason.

Rob Scuderi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 03:39 PM
  #24
kmad
Riot Survivor
 
kmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,189
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbio11 View Post
What are you going on about? Maybe because almost nobody tried? Because they couldn't?

Or do you just think that all those great Slovaks and Czechs magically got good in the 90s?

Nobody made an impact in the NHL until the early 90s because they couldn't get out (iron curtain).

Shouldn't there be some basic history knowledge requirement to be able to post on the History board ?
A few Czechs came over (Bubla, Hlinka, Nedomansky being the most successful) and while they were superstars at home, were far less effective in the NHL than in their home countries. They faltered against tougher competition. The Czechoslovak leagues were simply inferior.

edit:

kmad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 03:40 PM
  #25
Chara-3
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 99
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
With the exception of the Stastnys, nobody from Czechoslovakia made much of an impact in the NHL until the early 90s (Stan Mikita doesn't count). That indicates to me an emerging hockey nation, but one that wasn't quite there yet.
Vaclav Nedomansky - he didn't make much impact in NHL, but trust me, if he's Canadian, he would be in HOF now.

Bondra, Palffy, Stumpel, Satan, Demitra, Svehla didn't came out of nowhere in early 90s.

Chara-3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:14 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.