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Should the Toronto Maple Leafs "Blow it up"?

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01-28-2013, 02:17 PM
  #1
piere McGuire*
 
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Should the Toronto Maple Leafs "Blow it up"?

I've been a leafs fan watching this team loss after loss and keep watching regardless of the inevitable outcome. As all of you are well aware its been almost 10 years now since they last made the playoffs, and around 4 years since they have even had a sniff of being in contention late in the season to make the playoffs. Yes, we have gotten rid of all the players in the JFJ era and have no existing leafs that have been on the team for longer then 4 seasons. The fact of the matter is that the current players on the leafs have been part of a losing culture and have been poisoned by this. Players regress in Toronto (to the exception of a couple like Lupul) and the effect of a losing poisoned team does wonders on that regression. Toronto has started to be known as a goalie and prospect killer with goalies like Raycroft [albeit he was awful in his last year in Boston] Toskala...etc and prospects like Schenn, Pogge, Tlusty, Steen Colaiacavo. Raycroft, Toskala, Pogge are all out of the league and Steen, Tlusty, Colaiacavo (who were traded for peanuts) have all become very solid NHL players.

I know none of this is stuff is stuff that you have not heard before but it's just outlining the frustration of this franchise. Young players are bad on the leafs because we rush and development them terribly, leave the franchise and become good NHLers. Burke's flawed model of rebuilding this team through trade and lousy free agent signings, was, flawed. With a new GM who doesn't have insane principles and ridiculous stubbornness it is time to start of with a clean slate and whip this roster.

Kessel, Lupul (when healthy), Grabovski, MacArthur, Gunnarsson, Phaneuf are the main 6 guys who could get you some serious value. I'm not gonna throw around some trade proposals on value but it's somewhat undebatable that those above players mentioned could bring in a, large, handful of first, second round draft picks and prospects. The only chance this franchise has of rebuilding is getting rid of the losers, and brining in young talent that has not learned to only lose.

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01-28-2013, 02:20 PM
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Elever
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Er...they already did.

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01-28-2013, 02:21 PM
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ForzaItalia
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Was listening to Hockey Central today on the FAN590 and they suggested that Phaneuf and Kessel should both be traded to "reset" the team.

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01-28-2013, 02:21 PM
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Pierre Dagenais
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Yes. A proper rebuild this time. No Kessel shortcuts.

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01-28-2013, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
Er...they already did.
Well not really, Blowing it up has to bring return to the players you are getting rid of. What did they get for the leafs of the mid 2000s? Nothing substantial at all. I'm talking firesale and being a bottom feeder (a real bottom feeder, not a 7-10th drafting team) for a couple seasons and bring in some players through the draft.

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01-28-2013, 02:21 PM
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Er...they already did.
They traded away their picks. Doing it wrong.

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01-28-2013, 02:22 PM
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If they do it, all I pray for is they do it right. Leafs management half ***** everything.

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01-28-2013, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BlameSubban View Post
Well not really, Blowing it up has to bring return to the players you are getting rid of. What did they get for the leafs of the mid 2000s? Nothing substantial at all. I'm talking firesale and being a bottom feeder (a real bottom feeder, not a 7-10th drafting team) for a couple seasons and bring in some players through the draft.
The problem is your lucky if you only bottom feed for a couple of seasons.

And that's not at all what ownership wants at this point. They want to make money from playoffs ASAP.

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01-28-2013, 02:24 PM
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Hiring Brian Burke was a massive mistake. As proven in Vancouver and Anaheim, he will always go for a shortcut and try to win in the present. He's not one that would have the patience for a rebuild. While Kessel is a very good player, he should be traded (or shouldn't have been traded for in the first place) for a good/great prospect and a 1st and get underway with a proper rebuild.

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01-28-2013, 02:24 PM
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Yep. Is it even a question? The team is full of questions from first to last line. No stability, zero consistency. Secure a top 3 pick this year please Mr. Nonis.

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01-28-2013, 02:24 PM
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And that's not at all what ownership wants at this point. They want to make money from playoffs ASAP.
I disagree with you. Bell and Rogers just spend like 80 million dollars on the Jays - No way they make 80 million more this season then last. Bell and Rogers are way more Canadian based companies then MLSE and actually care about the city of Toronto bringing in a championship more then MLSE. Not saying they are gonna spend 80 million on the leafs - because they can't, but they will be more patient if it means for the better in the long haul

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01-28-2013, 02:25 PM
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It's been 9 friggin years since we were in the playoffs. I'm not prepared to wait 3-5 more. It's time that the young players on this team learn what the playoffs are like.

It would be counter-intuitive to blow it up. They might be able to replace MacArthur or Grabovski but you have little guarantee that what you get back in return will end up being as good as Kessel or even Phaneuf (who at worst is still at least a 2nd pairing dman who can play more minutes). At this point you roll with what you have and try to add while waiting for prospects to develop not take away.

They sign a big FA next summer with their cap space plus maybe a bigger contribution from Kadri or Gardiner and a few others like Colborne or Ashton or Percy get going and you're in business.

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01-28-2013, 02:26 PM
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Brian Burke basically set back the club by 5 years.

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01-28-2013, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
It's been 9 friggin years since we were in the playoffs. I'm not prepared to wait 3-5 more. It's time that the young players on this team learn what the playoffs are like.

It would be counter-intuitive to blow it up. They might be able to replace MacArthur or Grabovski but you have little guarantee that what you get back in return will end up being as good as Kessel or even Phaneuf (who at worst is still at least a 2nd pairing dman who can play more minutes). At this point you roll with what you have and try to add while waiting for prospects to develop not take away.

They sign a big FA next summer with their cap space plus maybe a bigger contribution from Kadri or Gardiner and a few others like Colborne or Ashton or Percy get going and you're in business.
So with like 25 million tied up in kessel (getting a big raise) phaneuf, grabo and lupul - how do you except them to add more big names. Leafs have too much money tied up in the wrong players.

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01-28-2013, 02:27 PM
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Sure they should the arena will sell out anyway. They can do whatever they want. They don't make the playoffs for a decade = make money. They fumble their assets = make money. They have the most secure team in the league.

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01-28-2013, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlameSubban View Post
I disagree with you. Bell and Rogers just spend like 80 million dollars on the Jays - No way they make 80 million more this season then last. Bell and Rogers are way more Canadian based companies then MLSE and actually care about the city of Toronto bringing in a championship more then MLSE. Not saying they are gonna spend 80 million on the leafs - because they can't, but they will be more patient if it means for the better in the long haul
I don't follow baseball but I know obviously they're not going to get a full return in just one season. I'm going to guess that they pumped money in so the team can make a quick turnaround and start to aim for the playoffs, and thus, making more money.

And how the hell are they "way more Canadian based"? MSLE is based in Toronto and owns multiple Toronto teams....

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01-28-2013, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
It's been 9 friggin years since we were in the playoffs. I'm not prepared to wait 3-5 more. It's time that the young players on this team learn what the playoffs are like.

It would be counter-intuitive to blow it up. They might be able to replace MacArthur or Grabovski but you have little guarantee that what you get back in return will end up being as good as Kessel or even Phaneuf (who at worst is still at least a 2nd pairing dman who can play more minutes). At this point you roll with what you have and try to add while waiting for prospects to develop not take away.

They sign a big FA next summer with their cap space plus maybe a bigger contribution from Kadri or Gardiner and a few others like Colborne or Ashton or Percy get going and you're in business.
This is the road to mediocrity.

Blow it up, a team should never be built around players with questionable character. It seems like every roster spot is filled with someone who just barely fits the role, minus Kessel, and the results from the past few years show it.

Burke lost our chance of properly rebuilding a few years ago, time to restart and build through the draft.

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01-28-2013, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
Brian Burke basically set back the club by 5 years.
I thought he didn't believe in 5 year plans

If they want long term success: Yes
If they want to make money: No


Leafs will make money no matter what but playoff revenue may be too enticing.

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01-28-2013, 02:31 PM
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Marlo Stanfield
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Can Leafs fans and ownership endure 3-4 more years of this current state x 1000? That's what it's going to be.

Say you keep Rielly, Gardiner, Kadri and a few others. You'd have to turn over 90% of the roster AGAIN (although this time the trade pieces to get newer/younger assets are a lot better than when Burke had to do this when he took over).

If you wanna gut the team down and start from scratch then prepare to toughen it out. And make sure you get the pieces you need to succeed this time around (young proven goalie, #1 center)

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01-28-2013, 02:33 PM
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2012 - 5th overall
2011 - 10th overall
2010 - 2nd overall
2009 - 7th overall
2008 - 5th overall

Um Haven't they already rebuilt?

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01-28-2013, 02:35 PM
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Bruv
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Yeah

boom

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01-28-2013, 02:36 PM
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Marlo Stanfield
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Originally Posted by mach1121 View Post
2012 - 5th overall
2011 - 10th overall
2010 - 2nd overall
2009 - 7th overall
2008 - 5th overall

Um Haven't they already rebuilt?
You're forgetting that 2010 & 2011 = Phil Kessel.

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01-28-2013, 02:36 PM
  #23
JuniorNelson
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If you are actually going to blow up your roster, you need a guy that specializes in roster overhauls, or has demonstrated he can do it. So, not Nonis.

If the Leafs wanted to attempt this they should have hired Davidson. Talon, is another. Since both are employed, Toronto needs to look elsewhere, but you get the idea. You need a SUPERBOSS, a guy that has a world view and the data to explore it.

The off season is the best time to undertake such a project, but the groundwork can be laid out at the deadline. The new GM should be in place in time to take the helm by then.

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01-28-2013, 02:36 PM
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Soundgarden
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Originally Posted by mach1121 View Post
2012 - 5th overall
2011 - 10th overall
2010 - 2nd overall
2009 - 7th overall
2008 - 5th overall

Um Haven't they already rebuilt?
They have had really bad asset management IMO, not nearly patient enough. They trade up to get the guy they want in Schenn then they rush him to the NHL and trade him when he isn't as good as they expected. I'm surprised they didn't trade Kadri.

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01-28-2013, 02:37 PM
  #25
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I think every single team should blow it up, except my team, so then we can win the cup unopposed for the next 3-5 years.

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