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P.K. Subban Thread 10.0 : 'Is today the day?' Edition

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01-28-2013, 03:43 PM
  #76
HabbyGuy
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Originally Posted by e46330ivs View Post
Montreal fans, here is an example of why you dont sign PK for more than 2 years. There was this d-man who was predicted to be a Norris trophy winner for years, the next Chris Pronger. His rookie year was full of hi-lights, goals and hits, and the second year was even better. He eventually signed an extention for serious term and serious money.......Dion Phaneuf. Would you trade for Dion Phaneuf now? No, but after his ELC? Yes every team wanted him. That is the purpose of the bridge contract. If Dion had signed a bridge deal, do you think he would be getting the money and stupid term he has now? report this comment

taken from a post on TSN, my feelings exactly.
Hard to argue with that.

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01-28-2013, 03:44 PM
  #77
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I'm just going to say: Niederreiter?

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01-28-2013, 03:44 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by e46330ivs View Post
Montreal fans, here is an example of why you dont sign PK for more than 2 years. There was this d-man who was predicted to be a Norris trophy winner for years, the next Chris Pronger. His rookie year was full of hi-lights, goals and hits, and the second year was even better. He eventually signed an extention for serious term and serious money.......Dion Phaneuf. Would you trade for Dion Phaneuf now? No, but after his ELC? Yes every team wanted him. That is the purpose of the bridge contract. If Dion had signed a bridge deal, do you think he would be getting the money and stupid term he has now? report this comment

taken from a post on TSN, my feelings exactly.
I'd trade for Phaneuf, depends what's the asking price though.

I agree that in his case, a bridge contract might have changed things for him.

But in our current situation, both teams seem in agreement on contract length (short term), just not the value. Although, that may have changed by now.

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01-28-2013, 03:44 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by e46330ivs View Post
Montreal fans, here is an example of why you dont sign PK for more than 2 years. There was this d-man who was predicted to be a Norris trophy winner for years, the next Chris Pronger. His rookie year was full of hi-lights, goals and hits, and the second year was even better. He eventually signed an extention for serious term and serious money.......Dion Phaneuf. Would you trade for Dion Phaneuf now? No, but after his ELC? Yes every team wanted him. That is the purpose of the bridge contract. If Dion had signed a bridge deal, do you think he would be getting the money and stupid term he has now? report this comment

taken from a post on TSN, my feelings exactly.
As much as the argument is somewhat poignant, that's a pretty crazy reason not to sign players long term. We all know there is risk involved in every signing, and hopefully you can count on your pro scouting team to assess the situation correctly.

There's always a "Phaneuf" factor when signing young upstart players. There's also a "Kane, Skinner, Hall, Eberle, Doughty, Bolland, Karlsson. Hedman & co." factor as well.

Personally, I doubt that Subban falls into the former category. It's a risk I would be willing to take.

Obviously MB disagrees with me, due to his insistence of offering a 2 year deal.

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01-28-2013, 03:47 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
As much as the argument is somewhat poignant, that's a pretty crazy reason not to sign players long term. We all know there is risk involved in every signing, and hopefully you can count on your pro scouting team to assess the situation correctly.

There's always a "Phaneuf" factor when signing young upstart players. There's also a "Kane, Skinner, Hall, Eberle, Doughty, Bolland, Karlsson. Hedman & co." factor as well.

Personally, I doubt that Subban falls into the former category. It's a risk I would be willing to take.
Agreed. All contracts have their risks. At some point, you have to take a chance in order to get some players. Sometimes it works, other times, not so much. But if you don't ever make a move, you'll always come out empty handed.

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01-28-2013, 03:47 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
As much as the argument is somewhat poignant, that's a pretty crazy reason not to sign players long term. We all know there is risk involved in every signing, and hopefully you can count on your pro scouting team to assess the situation correctly.

There's always a "Phaneuf" factor when signing young upstart players. There's also a "Kane, Skinner, Hall, Eberle, Doughty, Bolland, Karlsson. Hedman & co." factor as well.

Personally, I doubt that Subban falls into the former category. It's a risk I would be willing to take.
The thing is I'm sure you would of been hard pressed to doubt Phaneuf too. He clearly "proved" his worth in his first two seasons no?

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01-28-2013, 03:48 PM
  #82
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I'm just going to say: Niederreiter?
I prefer players who can score more than 1 pt in 55 games. No excuses.

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01-28-2013, 03:50 PM
  #83
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The thing is I'm sure you would of been hard pressed to doubt Phaneuf too. He clearly "proved" his worth in his first two seasons no?
Yup. He sure did. But as the rest of the post points out, that is a risk every single GM needs to make sometimes.

Yes it can fail, but the possibility of failure shouldn't be the base reason for not taking a chance.

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01-28-2013, 03:50 PM
  #84
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Actually, TODAY, we have no needs. Whatsoever. So again, let PK rot if he wants to be traded, unless a team is willing to give us one asset that is better than him and would be our best asset at his position. This team shouldn't be in the business of helping other teams anymore.

Another rumor, Detroit & NYR are interested. Well, I like Justin Abdelkader just fine but he's not good enough to be worth PK. Their interesting players are in their 30's, they are too old. Detroit = not good trading partners. NYR, I get McDonagh or they don't get PK, and PK keeps rotting.
It's 4 games into the season. Let's not get carried away like we have the 90's Devils defense just because we beat two awful teams and barely scraped by a good one. A Markov injury and Subban is back in the drivers seat. Markov's injuries aside, he's 33 and played 30 minutes yesterday. Subban would make everyone better for the long haul.

Some of you sound like Leafs fans planning the parade already.

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01-28-2013, 03:50 PM
  #85
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what the **** is going on here? PK's getting low-balled BUT he's doing himself no favor by not being with new team, new management etc...

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01-28-2013, 03:51 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Obviously MB disagrees with me, due to his insistence of offering a 2 year deal.
I think Bergevin's insistence to keep Subban on a short deal is more about cap management than about questions about Subban.

Listening to Pierre McGuire on the radio a few weeks ago he pointed out how in his interviews the Habs management was VERY high on Subban, and how they know how important he is to the team.

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01-28-2013, 03:52 PM
  #87
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Any new updates from their weekend meeting ? Sorry if already asked.

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01-28-2013, 03:52 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
It's 4 games into the season. Let's not get carried away like we have the 90's Devils defense just because we beat two awful teams and barely scraped by a good one. A Markov injury and Subban is back in the drivers seat. Markov's injuries aside, he's 33 and played 30 minutes yesterday. Subban would make everyone better for the long haul.

Some of you sound like Leafs fans planning the parade already.
Agreed. While the team is playing great. It also doesn't mean that we have no room for improvement. I'd gladly replace Kaberler/Weber with PK.

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01-28-2013, 03:52 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Yup. He sure did. But as the rest of the post points out, that is a risk every single GM needs to make sometimes.

Yes it can fail, but the possibility of failure shouldn't be the base reason for not taking a chance.
Yes, but why risk anything to begin with, when there's no reason to do so? The ball is firmly in MB's hands.

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01-28-2013, 03:53 PM
  #90
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The thing is I'm sure you would of been hard pressed to doubt Phaneuf too. He clearly "proved" his worth in his first two seasons no?
Phaneuf's issue was making the transition from an offensive d-man in managed minutes who hits to the all situations two-way defender he's been in the last couple seasons. That's a very difficult step that a lot of talented young defensemen struggle with. Its the transition from being a capable support guy into someone who carries his team.

Myers is a guy right now having also difficulty making that jump.

Subban managed that transition at 21, half way into his rookie season.

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01-28-2013, 03:55 PM
  #91
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I think Bergevin's insistence to keep Subban on a short deal is more about cap management than about questions about Subban.

Listening to Pierre McGuire on the radio a few weeks ago he pointed out how in his interviews the Habs management was VERY high on Subban, and how they know how important he is to the team.
That's great to hear!

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01-28-2013, 03:55 PM
  #92
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I think Bergevin's insistence to keep Subban on a short deal is more about cap management than about questions about Subban.
Which would makes sense for now. However I'm still not sold that bridge contracts actually save the team any money long term. It seems that it actually ends up costing us more when the players inevitable perform well, and receive huge cash outs at the end of their 2 year contracts.

I feel there is the possibility to lock up PK to a medium-long term deal (5-6 years) at a discount compared to what I project he will end up geting paid post bridge contract. Of course, that's mostly speculation on my part.

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01-28-2013, 03:55 PM
  #93
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Yes, but why risk anything to begin with, when there's no reason to do so? The ball is firmly in MB's hands.
exactly!!!!

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01-28-2013, 03:55 PM
  #94
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PK Subban is no Drew Doughty offensively. Not being a competent PP quarterback is a part of the big ass payday and he has not shown that kind of mojo yet. He is purely a "gunner" right now. He also has issues with discipline, as the PIMs are quite high.

He is a rock defensively, but he is overrating himself if thinks he is worth such an enormous payday.

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01-28-2013, 03:56 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Phaneuf's issue was making the transition from an offensive d-man in managed minutes who hits to the all situations two-way defender he's been in the last couple seasons. That's a very difficult step that a lot of talented young defensemen struggle with. Its the transition from being a capable support guy into someone who carries his team.

Myers is a guy right now having also difficulty making that jump.

Subban managed that transition at 21, half way into his rookie season.
And that's why Subban is proven. Can he still improve? Sure, but he's ahead of any expected trajectory.

Even Doughty, held up as the standard bearer for all blueliners in that age group, eased into that transition.

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01-28-2013, 03:56 PM
  #96
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Yes, but why risk anything to begin with, when there's no reason to do so? The ball is firmly in MB's hands.
Risk of losing one of the better young players in the league should suffice. I'm not a big fan of alienating players just to prove a point.

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01-28-2013, 03:56 PM
  #97
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PK Subban is no Drew Doughty offensively. Not being a competent PP quarterback is a part of the big ass payday and he has not shown that kind of mojo yet. He is purely a "gunner" right now. He also has issues with discipline, as the PIMs are quite high.

He is a rock defensively, but he is overrating himself if thinks he is worth such an enormous payday.
And what payday does PK think himself worthy of, exactly?

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01-28-2013, 03:56 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Phaneuf's issue was making the transition from an offensive d-man in managed minutes who hits to the all situations two-way defender he's been in the last couple seasons. That's a very difficult step that a lot of talented young defensemen struggle with. Its the transition from being a capable support guy into someone who carries his team.

Myers is a guy right now having also difficulty making that jump.

Subban managed that transition at 21, half way into his rookie season.
So it's safe to say he had room to grow, but his potential was off the hook and his production was at the time warranted and proven. Sounds awfully familiar.

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01-28-2013, 03:57 PM
  #99
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I prefer players who can score more than 1 pt in 55 games. No excuses.
Yup, bad season, he didn't think he was used right and spoke about that. So, the 5th overall pick in 2010, who is running a PPG pace in the AHL this season, doesn't even get a call to the Isles' camp, and now wants a trade. How quickly the atmosphere can go sour, and the club seldom wins when that happens.

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01-28-2013, 03:57 PM
  #100
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Risk of losing one of the better young players in the league should suffice. I'm not a big fan of alienating players just to prove a point.
I don't see MB losing Subban by taking this tactic. Offer sheet is not going to not be matched and he isn't going to trade him. Subban isn't going anywhere.

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