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P.K. Subban Thread 10.0 : 'Is today the day?' Edition

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01-28-2013, 03:58 PM
  #101
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Serious question: How does this guy show his face in the room after this...???

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01-28-2013, 03:58 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
PK Subban is no Drew Doughty offensively. Not being a competent PP quarterback is a part of the big ass payday and he has not shown that kind of mojo yet. He is purely a "gunner" right now. He also has issues with discipline, as the PIMs are quite high.

He is a rock defensively, but he is overrating himself if thinks he is worth such an enormous payday.
He has as many points per 60 mins on the PP as Karlsson.

He also draws a ton of penalties, and his draw to take ratio for penalties is right around the norm for d-men.

No one knows that he is asking for an enormous payday.

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01-28-2013, 03:59 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
PK Subban is no Drew Doughty offensively. Not being a competent PP quarterback is a part of the big ass payday and he has not shown that kind of mojo yet. He is purely a "gunner" right now. He also has issues with discipline, as the PIMs are quite high.
He draws more penalties than he gets.
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Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
He is a rock defensively, but he is overrating himself if thinks he is worth such an enormous payday.
He's worth more than the Habs are offering. And it doesn't sound like he wants DD type money...

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01-28-2013, 04:00 PM
  #104
Dr Gonzo
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I don't see MB losing Subban by taking this tactic. Offer sheet is not going to not be matched and he isn't going to trade him.
So he's just going to let him rot if they can't come to a conclusion? That's losing one of the best young d-men, basically.

We went down this path with Dryden many moons ago, it didn't make sense then, and it really doesn't make much sense now.

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01-28-2013, 04:00 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Rickkins View Post
Serious question: How does this guy show his face in the room after this...???
Same way Drew Doughty did?

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01-28-2013, 04:00 PM
  #106
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Serious question: How does this guy show his face in the room after this...???
Considering that Josh " we just want fair compensation" Gorges, Erik " I may just retire" Cole and Brandon " herpty derpty doo" Prust seem to be leaders in this room, I very much doubt PK should be feeling any heat. He's just following through on the groundwork laid by his PA brethren.

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01-28-2013, 04:01 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Risk of losing one of the better young players in the league should suffice. I'm not a big fan of alienating players just to prove a point.
Pretty much. MB isn't in a position vis vis Subban like Gauthier was when he offered bridge contracts to Price and Patches. PG had every right to offer what he did, and the players didn't have any margin for negotiating with their situations. PK on the other hand... does have a hand in the negotiations.

If you really want a player, you give him a legit offer. Lowballing and asking players to just take it is no way to treat a player. And it also sends a bad message to anyone else about to sign with the team.

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01-28-2013, 04:02 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
So he's just going to let him rot if they can't come to a conclusion? That's losing one of the best young d-men, basically.

We went down this path with Dryden many moons ago, it didn't make sense then, and it really doesn't make much sense now.
I don't believe we lost Dryden either. Infact he went on to win 4 more cups with the team.

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01-28-2013, 04:02 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Rickkins View Post
Serious question: How does this guy show his face in the room after this...???
Opens the locker room doors, takes a joker mask off and shows his face? I dunno, like anyone else would I guess.

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01-28-2013, 04:02 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Considering that Josh " we just want fair compensation" Gorges, Erik " I may just retire" Cole and Brandon " herpty derpty doo" Prust seem to be leaders in this room, I very much doubt PK should be feeling any heat. He's just following through on the groundwork laid by his PA brethren.
I almost cracked up in class.

These holdouts are plenty common, the Habs just usually ship out talent before having to deal with them. Doughty and Stamkos had no problem showing their faces after.

Habs had no problem welcoming Dryden back, a year later.

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01-28-2013, 04:02 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Rickkins View Post
Serious question: How does this guy show his face in the room after this...???
Players don't get involved with others contract signings. It's a distraction, they know it's a business and they're all trying to get their just value. They don't pay attention to others contracts just as they don't want others involved in theirs.

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01-28-2013, 04:03 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
He draws more penalties than he gets.

He's worth more than the Habs are offering. And it doesn't sound like he wants DD type money...
It still negates a substantial amount of the benefit he provided by drawing penalties. 2 minutes on the penalty kill is two minutes wasted.

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01-28-2013, 04:03 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by HabbyGuy View Post
I don't believe we lost Dryden either. Infact he went on to win 4 more cups with the team.
We lost him for an entire year because we didn't want to pay him fair value.

That's not smart. At all. I doubt they go down the same path with Subban. There has to be room for compromise.

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01-28-2013, 04:05 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
It still negates a substantial amount of the benefit he provided by drawing penalties. 2 minutes on the penalty kill is two minutes wasted.
Except it doesn't, because he causes more power plays than penalty kills with his antics. His fouls drawn to concede rate is a net positive. Whatever benefit he negates, he's still out ahead.

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01-28-2013, 04:05 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
We lost him for an entire year because we didn't pay him full value.

That's not smart. At all. I doubt they go down the same path with Subban.
You're right in that regard it did suck. I doubt MB wants that to happen as well, but ultimately the choice is PK's.

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01-28-2013, 04:06 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by HabbyGuy View Post
I don't see MB losing Subban by taking this tactic. Offer sheet is not going to not be matched and he isn't going to trade him. Subban isn't going anywhere.
You seriously think other teams wouldn't offer PK a contract higher than 3mill per if MB decides to let go of Subban? Have you not seen how some current teams are terrible or decimated defensively?

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01-28-2013, 04:06 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
It still negates a substantial amount of the benefit he provided by drawing penalties. 2 minutes on the penalty kill is two minutes wasted.
You gotta take the good with the bad. If you're going to point to him taking penalties you should also point out that he draws them.

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01-28-2013, 04:08 PM
  #118
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Except it doesn't, because he causes more power plays than penalty kills with his antics. His fouls drawn to concede rate is a net positive. Whatever benefit he negates, he's still out ahead.
I don't want just a net positive. I want the net positive to be maximized. It is not as much as it could be if he reduces the penalties taken. If he only had 40 PIMs, the benefit would be even greater.

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01-28-2013, 04:09 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by HabbyGuy View Post
You're right in that regard it did suck. I doubt MB wants that to happen as well, but ultimately the choice is PK's.
I disagree. The choice, or onus in this case, should be a compromise between both parties, MB and PK.

If PK comes down from his 5-6 year stance, then pay him more than a 4th d-man.
If you insist on a shorter term deal, give him some incentive to do so.

PK proved that he can handle the #1 role quite admirably, and even though Markov is back, that doesn't mean that PK should have to only get paid $1M more than Matt Carkner.

If what MacKenzie, Lavoie and Dreger are reporting is true (2y $5M), Bergevin is trying to milk both ends of the cow, so to speak. (And yes, I just made cow saying up)

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01-28-2013, 04:10 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Cupmonger View Post
You seriously think other teams wouldn't offer PK a contract higher than 3mill per if MB decides to let go of Subban? Have you not seen how some current teams are terrible or decimated defensively?
I'm of the belief MB is NOT going to let PK go. And any offer will be matched unless it's an offer that that yields us multiple 1sts.

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01-28-2013, 04:10 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
I don't want just a net positive. I want the net positive to be maximized. It is not as much as it could be if he reduces the penalties taken. If he only had 40 PIMs, the benefit would be even greater.
So don't play aggressive PK, we don't want you to take penalties. How effective would he be if he didn't play with his edge? It's all part of his game, the good and the bad.

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01-28-2013, 04:12 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Rickkins View Post
Serious question: How does this guy show his face in the room after this...???
Serious question: How can Mark Bergevin look PK in the eye after the lowball **** that we're offering him?

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01-28-2013, 04:12 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
L.A. Lariviere ‏@L_A_theRiver
The latest from Habs D PK Subban: Agent Don Meehan, his client and family will discuss the current situation and move closer to decision.
We have to trust some 2nd rate bozo from TVA Sports named 'The River'? Really?

Guys, I have it from a solid inside source that Subban and Meehan are indeed meeting tonight... but it's to play board games.




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01-28-2013, 04:13 PM
  #124
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Which would makes sense for now. However I'm still not sold that bridge contracts actually save the team any money long term. It seems that it actually ends up costing us more when the players inevitable perform well, and receive huge cash outs at the end of their 2 year contracts.

I feel there is the possibility to lock up PK to a medium-long term deal (5-6 years) at a discount compared to what I project he will end up geting paid post bridge contract. Of course, that's mostly speculation on my part.
I think that this year is a special case, with the cap going down next year. The difference between Subban at $2.5M vs $5M next year gives the Habs a lot of flexibility. After that, you hope the cap starts to rise, and Gionta's contract is up so you have options. It could (in theory) mean the difference between making a run at a guy like Getzlaf or not.

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01-28-2013, 04:13 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I disagree. The choice, or onus in this case, should be a compromise between both parties, MB and PK.

If PK comes down from his 5-6 year stance, then pay him more than a 4th d-man.
If you insist on a shorter term deal, give him some incentive to do so.

PK proved that he can handle the #1 role quite admirably, and even though Markov is back, that doesn't mean that PK should have to only get paid $1M more than Matt Carkner.

If what MacKenzie, Lavoie and Dreger are reporting is true (2y $5M), Bergevin is trying to milk both ends of the cow, so to speak. (And yes, I just made cow saying up)
Listen I'm not going to argue figures because quite frankly no one really knows what they are and the exercise is futile. My original point was the Phaneuf-Subban comparison, and how taking the bridge route can be seen as not only fair but prudent. Granted of course the figure is around 3.5 to 4M

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