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Should the Toronto Maple Leafs "Blow it up"?

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Old
01-28-2013, 05:13 PM
  #51
nickschultzfan
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Rebuilding can be as fun and entertaining as watching a quality team. It's all a matter of perspective and whether your team is doing it correctly.





Leafs, just rebuild already. You'll love every minute of it.

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Old
01-28-2013, 05:14 PM
  #52
HockeyThoughts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlameSubban View Post
So with like 25 million tied up in kessel (getting a big raise) phaneuf, grabo and lupul - how do you except them to add more big names. Leafs have too much money tied up in the wrong players.
Hmmm.. Let's see.

Lupul(5.25M)-X-Kessel(7M)
X-Grabovski(5.5M)-X

Phaneuf(6.5M)-X

So that's half our top 6 and a #1 defenseman locked up for 24.25M out of a 64.3M (13/14 ceiling) cap. 37% of spending on the majority of your very best players.

--------------
Let's say we add a #1 center at 6M, #2 two-way defenseman at 5M, add Kulemin on Grabovski's wing at his hit of 2.8M and slot in JVR on his other wing at 4.25M. I'll also slot in Gardiner, Brown, McClement and Frattin who are all signed beyond this year and I would like to see have a spot on this team.

Lupul(5.25M)-X(6M)-Kessel(7M)
Kulemin(2.8M)-Grabovski(5.5M)-JVR(4.25M)
X-X-Frattin(.900M)
X-McClement(1.5M)-Brown(.736M)

Phaneuf(6.5M)-X(5M)
Gardiner(1.16M)-X
X-X

This gives us: 46.5M out of a 64.3M cap. 72.3% of the cap with 3 bottom 6 spots to fill, 3 bottom D spots to fill and goaltending.

--------------
Now let's resign Nazem Kadri at a fair bridge contract of 2M for the next 2 seasons, and Leo Komarov re-signs on a bridge contract type contract of his own at 1.75M for the next 2 seasons. We re-sign 2-way defenseman Cal Gunnarsson to a 2.7M cap hit over the next 5 seasons to round out our top 4. Hopefully Morgan Reilly (1.77M) is ready to step into the NHL in a sheltered role and we pair him up with hard-nosed Korbinian Holzer who is signed to an NHL deal at 1M for the next 2 seasons. I also promote Toronto Marlies captain Ryan Hamilton to the NHL on a .775M 1 year contract to play on our fourth line. Lastly, we trade Clarke MacArthur and Cody Franson for Roberto Luongo and his 5.33M cap hit.

Lupul(5.25M)-X(6M)-Kessel(7M)
Kulemin(2.8M)-Grabovski(5.5M)-JVR(4.25M)
Komarov(1.75M)-Kadri(2M)-Frattin(.900M)
Hamilton(.775M)-McClement(1.5M)-Brown(.736M)

= 38.641M on forwards

Phaneuf(6.5M)-X(5M)
Gardiner(1.16M)-Gunnarsson(2.7M)
Reilly(1.77M)-Holzer(1M)

= 18.13M on defense

Luongo (5.33M)
Reimer(1.8M)

=7.1M on goaltending

All together 63.8M out of a 64.3M cap.
--------------
This also leaves us with the following on roster player's leaving..
Bozak (UFA) --> Either re-sign for multiple years at a discount rate for a permanent spot on our third line OR trade at deadline for a team looking for some good offensive depth.
MacArthur (UFA) --> Traded with Franson to Vancouver for Luongo.
Steckel (UFA) --> Let him go.
Orr (UFA) --> Let him go.

Komisarek (4.5M for 1 year) --> Amnestied.
Liles (3.875M for 3 years) --> Traded for a 2nd to a young team looking for a veteran PMD.
Franson (RFA) --> Traded with MacArthur to Vancouver for Luongo.
Kostka (UFA) --> Back to the AHL.
Fraser (RFA) --> Back to the AHL.

Scrivens (.612M for 1 year) --> Back to the AHL.
--------------
BlameSubban, I just showed you how we can add some big names while keeping all of our top players: Kessel, Lupul, Grabovski and Phaneuf on the roster.
I guess if you consider moving 10 players out of the 23 players on our roster going into 13/14 a "blow-up" then yes, we do need to blow-up.


Last edited by HockeyThoughts: 01-28-2013 at 05:21 PM.
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Old
01-28-2013, 05:22 PM
  #53
Jerkini
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
Let's say we add a #1 center at 6M
Grabovski is getting paid $5.5 million. You think a genuine, legitimate #1 center is only worth $500k more? Lets be realistic.

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01-28-2013, 05:32 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
Grabovski is getting paid $5.5 million. You think a genuine, legitimate #1 center is only worth $500k more? Lets be realistic.
Grabovski is one of the top #2 centers in the league with the ability to hit 30G-30A with good linemates or simply carry a line with poor wingers.

Who says we absolutely NEED a Ryan Getzlaf at 7M or the like. Why can't we go with a 1A-1B system like many other great teams (St.Louis, Nashville, Boston, Colorado..etc)? Stephen Weiss is a free agent this season and he would fit in perfectly on our team. He's a guy who has put up Grabovski like + numbers, hitting 60pts 2x and 28G before as well. He was also great in his first playoff appearance last season with the Panthers. Put him between two great wingers in Kessel and Lupul and he shouldn't have any trouble producing -- just look at Bozak for example, who vastly over exceeds his offensive potential by playing with top-end wingers.

What really makes Weiss even more intriguing is his ability to PK and defensive ability that would surely stabilize an admittedly weak defensive line. Weiss hails from Toronto, is in his prime years (29years old) and has literally publicly stated in the past if he were to be traded he would only accept one to Toronto. He is currently being paid 3.1M and an upgrade to 5.75-6M would certainly be acceptable for him.

In many ways, Weiss is like a rich-mans Bozak and that is certainly something I would welcome on this squad.

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Old
01-28-2013, 06:38 PM
  #55
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"Blowing it up means" different things to different teams. The Leafs don't need to "Rebuild" in the same way people say the Flames do. The Leafs have the NHL's second youngest team. They have a terrific young core of D-Men in the future. And they very well could be on their way to a top pick for next June with a very good cap situation.

There's not a major change needed in those terms. The question is, do you keep Kessel and Phaneuf? Personally, I'd like to see Phaneuf gone and Kessel re-signed. But we'll see what MLSE feels.

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01-28-2013, 06:39 PM
  #56
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Trade everyone for draft picks. Then when they get of age, trade them for more draft picks.

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Old
01-28-2013, 06:39 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Rebuilding can be as fun and entertaining as watching a quality team. It's all a matter of perspective and whether your team is doing it correctly.





Leafs, just rebuild already. You'll love every minute of it.
The Leafs are rebuilding as we speak.

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Old
01-28-2013, 06:39 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
Trade everyone for draft picks, then when they get of age, trade them for draft picks.
Magical picks are the answer.

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01-28-2013, 06:41 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
the leafs have like 2 regulars older than age 27.

blowup what?
Exactly. You don't blow up a team this young. There are a couple of big moves that should be made, but no blowing it up required.

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01-28-2013, 06:48 PM
  #60
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No, it's a ridiculous idea. They have talented core players, a good prospect pool (finally) that they actually seem to want to keep around (finally), and are just two pieces (#1 center, #1 goalie) away from being a very solid team.

HFB has a fetish for "blowing it up", but the idea of trading away young elite talent like Kessel is ludicrous. It's essentially guaranteed you will not get back anything as lethal offensively as he is. Or, if you manage to swing him for a center, then you will be devoid of a first-line winger for said center to play with. Looking to acquire or develop their missing pieces is really the best chance they have.

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Old
01-28-2013, 06:50 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by FrontalLombardomy View Post
...what?

People who say the Leafs need to blow it up don't know very much about the Leafs.

Luongo would be horrible. By the time the Leafs are realistically ready to compete he'll be pretty much done. Waste of assets and we'll have to deal with that monstrosity of a contract as well. No thank you.
Even though everybody hates him Luongo is still a good goalie, and he will be for a couple more years still. He'll be the first legitimate no.1 they've had since CuJo and he'll probably get them into the playoffs for a couple years.

Would a Maple Leaf fan think getting to the playoffs a waste of assets at this point?They instantly become respectable instead of the laughing stock everybody believes they are now. Even if it's the 8th place it's a whole lot better then they have been the past decade. Just having a decent goalie does a hell of a lot. He'll be good for all the young goalies they have in the system too.

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Old
01-28-2013, 06:52 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Magical picks are the answer.
I find myself disagreeing with your posts more often than not but I wholeheartedly agree with your simple statement here.

This board has a fetish for the idea of trading everyone and anyone in return for picks, thinking these picks will be able to solve everything.

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Old
01-28-2013, 06:54 PM
  #63
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If Kessel stays and re-signs at a reasonable or market value price, no.

I understand the 'oh he's no Gretzky' comments but he's young, talented and can score goals without tons of support. You can still build around that...

In a perfect world, if Kessel leaves for somewhere else - they probably should consider (not automatically do it but consider it) 'blowing it up' but good luck getting Rogers/Bell to keep you around if that's your plan.

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01-28-2013, 06:54 PM
  #64
Jerkini
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
Grabovski is one of the top #2 centers in the league with the ability to hit 30G-30A with good linemates or simply carry a line with poor wingers.

Who says we absolutely NEED a Ryan Getzlaf at 7M or the like. Why can't we go with a 1A-1B system like many other great teams (St.Louis, Nashville, Boston, Colorado..etc)? Stephen Weiss is a free agent this season and he would fit in perfectly on our team. He's a guy who has put up Grabovski like + numbers, hitting 60pts 2x and 28G before as well. He was also great in his first playoff appearance last season with the Panthers. Put him between two great wingers in Kessel and Lupul and he shouldn't have any trouble producing -- just look at Bozak for example, who vastly over exceeds his offensive potential by playing with top-end wingers.

What really makes Weiss even more intriguing is his ability to PK and defensive ability that would surely stabilize an admittedly weak defensive line. Weiss hails from Toronto, is in his prime years (29years old) and has literally publicly stated in the past if he were to be traded he would only accept one to Toronto. He is currently being paid 3.1M and an upgrade to 5.75-6M would certainly be acceptable for him.

In many ways, Weiss is like a rich-mans Bozak and that is certainly something I would welcome on this squad.
Stephen Weiss is your solution to our #1 center problems? A perrenial 40-50 point player. Okay.

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01-28-2013, 07:12 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by GLaDOS View Post
I find myself disagreeing with your posts more often than not but I wholeheartedly agree with your simple statement here.

This board has a fetish for the idea of trading everyone and anyone in return for picks, thinking these picks will be able to solve everything.
That's because most of the posters here are teenagers who have boy-boy love for young prospects.

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Old
01-28-2013, 07:19 PM
  #66
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Lol 5 game in? Lets talk 30-40 games in.. or atleast when the games hit double digits.. Jesus some leaf fans are pathetic.

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01-28-2013, 07:21 PM
  #67
stish
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Lol 5 game in? Lets talk 30-40 games in.. or atleast when the games hit double digits.. Jesus some leaf fans are pathetic.
Phaneuf was Norris material after 3 games. Now trade him for picks. It's what some of us Leaf fans put up with on a day to day, often period to period basis on these boards

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01-28-2013, 07:21 PM
  #68
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No, stay the course, I'm enjoying this.

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01-28-2013, 07:57 PM
  #69
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Yea sure, I can deal with the Leafs out of the playoffs for the next 5 years or so.

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Old
01-28-2013, 07:58 PM
  #70
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What is there to blow up?

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01-28-2013, 08:00 PM
  #71
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Yea sure, I can deal with the Leafs out of the playoffs for the next 5 years or so.
Five years. That's nothing..

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Old
01-28-2013, 08:02 PM
  #72
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The team just drafted Reilly top 5. They could get another top 5 pick and people are asking why they don't rebuild? Is there any team that drafts top 5 that gets these questions?

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01-28-2013, 08:02 PM
  #73
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No, they finally have a solid talent pool, next jump is playoffs....

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Old
01-28-2013, 08:19 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by ForzaItalia View Post
Was listening to Hockey Central today on the FAN590 and they suggested that Phaneuf and Kessel should both be traded to "reset" the team.
If they can get a good prospect and a 1st for those guys they should do it. Stop trying to build around guys brought in from out of the organization with little to no leadership qualities and build through the draft.

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01-28-2013, 08:21 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
The team just drafted Reilly top 5. They could get another top 5 pick and people are asking why they don't rebuild? Is there any team that drafts top 5 that gets these questions?
Yes. The teams that have an obvious rebuilding mindset, not the ones who can't decide direction they should go.

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