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Dion Phaneuf

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01-28-2013, 06:51 AM
  #51
Phion Keneuf
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Perhaps.

Maybe Detriot would be interested, not sure what you could get, but I could see him having success in DET.
Maybe, but if I was Detroit I would blow that team up.

I think a team like Minnesota would be good as I think they want to win now for sure yet have a great prospect system

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01-28-2013, 06:54 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Phaneuf is young enough to be around for like 10 more years if he wanted to and wasnt traded. He would bring a physical element / big shot that neither Rielly nor Gardiner can really supply, and would be something we'd be missing from the top pairing with him gone.

In saying that, if there was a good deal to be had, i wouldnt be against it. We could have one of the top prospect pools league wide if Phaneuf was traded for a blue chipper + 1st and then our own 1st was a top 5 pick this year.

But I do think if we move Phaneuf, we'll be looking to find a very similar player down the line. A #2-3 physical D with a good shot.
If we can get a top 10 pick + blue chip forward for Phaneuf im happy. Take Darnell Nurse who is a beast and would look awesome alongside Rielly.

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01-28-2013, 07:17 AM
  #53
EucaLEAFtys
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Originally Posted by questhockey View Post
If your going to trade one of your top 5 assets, it has to be to fill a very important spot with youth, as Leafs are rebuilding. You also have to look at who can afford his contract.

Could Dion get you O'Reilly?
Maybe Neiderreiter + Reinhart for Phaneuf?
These are just examples, of types of players I would target, and team with Cap space.

I'd love to see Dion gone, as I am one of his least fav fans, but I also would never trade him, just to trade him. I'd trade him to potentially be better.
You're not the only Leaf fan who would love to see Phaneuf traded. I never wanted him on the Leafs in the first place and have been saying that he should be traded for quite a while now.

He shouldn't be in the Leafs' long-tem plans, especially if a proper rebuild is coming soon. As such, he should be moved sooner rather than later as his value probably won't be as high as it is now (due to other teams' desperate need for defencemen).

Normally, I would think that Phaneuf could garner a return of something like a 1st round pick and a top prospect (either a forward or defenceman since the Leafs are pretty thin when it comes to high-end prospects). But, given the current situation around the league where many teams are looking for help on defence this season, and if the Leafs were to eat part of Phaneuf's hefty salary/cap hit, they could probably get a little more than a 1st round pick (in this summer's Draft) and a top prospect.

The Leafs are not likely to do any better this seaason than they did last season, so they might as well get themselves set up now to take advantage of a very good Draft.

This team desperately needs to clean the slate and start fresh in much the same manner that the Panthers did a few seasons back when Dale Tallon took over as their new GM. Now is the time to completely remove the "old guard" and start anew, beginning with the removal of Phaneuf, Kessel, etc.

If they don't, then I highly doubt this team will ever see any success again.


Last edited by EucaLEAFtys: 01-29-2013 at 12:00 AM.
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Old
01-28-2013, 07:48 AM
  #54
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Not looking to move him but if a team comes knocking with a big overpayment then sure. Basically two of these top15 pick/top 4 defensemen/top prospect would be good payment.

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01-28-2013, 08:17 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Ha yep. All of the flaws in his game relate to decision making. His actual skill set beyond that is at an elite level.

In saying that, id be more open to moving Kessel over Phaneuf.
- Kessel would get us the bigger return
- Losing Phaneuf means longterm our blueline looks pretty weak physically as well as lacks a big point shot
- Keeping Phaneuf means we can pair him with a high IQ type of player like Rielly, could be a great top pairing
- Defence are more important than wingers
- Phaneuf has a better rounded game than Kessel does, and Kessel will expect a big raise next contract, whereas Phaneuf would probably get the same or even slightly less
Why trade only one when you can trade both Phaneuf and Kessel?

At this point, keeping either one of them won't help the Leafs move forward. If Nonis trades both players soon, the returns for each one will be far more beneficial for the Leafs down the road than keeping both of them or only moving one of them would.

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01-28-2013, 08:27 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Iggy-4-50 View Post
A pro scout once told me.

"Dion is a physical beast, unfortunately he has the brain of one too!"
So that's why his decision-making and leadership skills are so poor, and his style of game is reminiscent of the proverbial "bull in a china shop"!

Now everything makes perfect sense.

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01-28-2013, 08:29 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
Why trade only one when you can trade both Phaneuf and Kessel?

At this point, keeping either one of them won't help the Leafs move forward. If Nonis trades both players soon, the returns for each one will be far more beneficial for the Leafs down the road than keeping both of them or only moving one of them would.
I think my previous comment explained that pretty well but I'll go more in depth.

Trading Kessel likely means we'd have ~ Rielly + Gardiner + top 5 pick (our own) + top prospect (Kessel trade) + mid to late 1st (Kessel trade) to build around in terms of top prospects.

If we trade Phaneuf, we have nobody in the organization who looks like he can fill his role. No potential top pairing physical D-men with big shots. I criticize Phaneuf all the time, but that's because I don't like him as a Captain and I don't think anybody should be fooled into thinking he's a legitimate #1. But that doesn't mean I don't think he can provide very real and valuable contributions on the ice, or that I don't think he can legitimately play on a top pairing. Rielly/Gardiner don't fill the same role that Phaneuf can.

Also considering the return from a potential Kessel deal + our own top pick in this draft, I would argue that we'd have a prospect pool good enough that we could be comfortable trying to build to be as competitive as possible as soon as next season, and no longer any thinking about tanking in the future (aka a ~top 5 prospect pool).

We could try and add Backstrom in the offseason to give us stability in net for the short term (Minnesota only has like ~300K in capspace right now, it's going to be hard for them to keep him, and given our capspace, we could outbid anybody for him on a ~2 year deal). Rielly would be starting next season, and we could swing for the fences at Getzlaf or Perry (though I doubt we'd get either).

I think we could sell Kessel and keep Phaneuf, come out of it with a top 5 prospect pool, and aim for the playoffs as early as next season.

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01-28-2013, 08:36 AM
  #58
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Leafs are years away from being a contender, so get your offers in now. Kulemin, MacArthur, Kessel, Phaneuf, Liles, Franson and maybe even Grabovski are tradeable IMHO.

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01-28-2013, 09:20 AM
  #59
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I'm a big fan of Phaneuf and would like to see him stick around. We Leaf fans really don't appreciate what we have in him. However if we were to trade him, I would hope the return fills one of our holes (no homo) at centre or in net.

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01-28-2013, 09:58 AM
  #60
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Heres an interesting thought, I know the conversation in here is based around Phaneuf's straight up value, but what would his value be if the leafs were to retain half his salary? Solid 1-2 Dman at 3.25mill a year.

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01-28-2013, 10:32 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
I think my previous comment explained that pretty well but I'll go more in depth.

Trading Kessel likely means we'd have ~ Rielly + Gardiner + top 5 pick (our own) + top prospect (Kessel trade) + mid to late 1st (Kessel trade) to build around in terms of top prospects.

If we trade Phaneuf, we have nobody in the organization who looks like he can fill his role. No potential top pairing physical D-men with big shots. I criticize Phaneuf all the time, but that's because I don't like him as a Captain and I don't think anybody should be fooled into thinking he's a legitimate #1. But that doesn't mean I don't think he can provide very real and valuable contributions on the ice, or that I don't think he can legitimately play on a top pairing. Rielly/Gardiner don't fill the same role that Phaneuf can.

Also considering the return from a potential Kessel deal + our own top pick in this draft, I would argue that we'd have a prospect pool good enough that we could be comfortable trying to build to be as competitive as possible as soon as next season, and no longer any thinking about tanking in the future (aka a ~top 5 prospect pool).

We could try and add Backstrom in the offseason to give us stability in net for the short term (Minnesota only has like ~300K in capspace right now, it's going to be hard for them to keep him, and given our capspace, we could outbid anybody for him on a ~2 year deal). Rielly would be starting next season, and we could swing for the fences at Getzlaf or Perry (though I doubt we'd get either).

I think we could sell Kessel and keep Phaneuf, come out of it with a top 5 prospect pool, and aim for the playoffs as early as next season.
What you've said here is all well and good, but the fact remains that the Leafs aren't likely to improve as quickly (in the long-term) if they don't trade Phaneuf now.

The fact that there isn't a ready replacement for Phaneuf in the system yet makes no real difference to this team's overall quality in the short-term as temporary replacements can be found via free agency or they can use Franson as a temporary replacement until they acquire someone they feel can properly fill that role.

The pointis, the Leafs are likely headed for more bottom-5 finishes in the league standings for the next few years anyway whether they keep Phaneuf or not; so why not move him now while his value is likely to be the highest it will ever be again?

If you want a quicker rebuild, then moving Phaneuf out now is a no-brainer, IMO.

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01-28-2013, 02:37 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by JAK View Post
Dion is a pylon defensively.

That said, whether it be Flames, Oilers, Wild, Avs. Make it work, the Sedins can't wait to add to their point totals.

At this stage, back to Calgary for a pick and Roster might work.
This.

It's not that he's completely useless, but the time that he has left on his contract, combined with the kind of player that he needs to play with in order to be successful means that it is in the best interests of the Leafs to trade him. Phaneuf with an elite defensive dman would be dynamite - right now the Leafs just don't have anyone good enough to play with him to cover for his ATROCIOUS coverage and consistent inability to clear the puck from the danger areas before he gets robbed and we concede (I believe it was the Buffalo game where he was screwing around with the puck right in front of scrivens before he got dispossessed and we end up losing 2-1.

The state that the leafs are in right now means we simply have to maximize our returns for any player who will mean an improved team in 2-3 years time, including Dion, Kessel, Grabo etc etc. We could easily get 1sts and blue-chip prospects for all 3 of those guys, not to mention the return for guys like McArthur/Komi/Connolly who will return us something decent from a team that needs help for a push.

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01-28-2013, 05:52 PM
  #63
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Downie + Col 2013 1st + b level prospect or Col 2014 2nd for phaneuf

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01-28-2013, 06:17 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by OLUSAF View Post
Downie + Col 2013 1st + b level prospect or Col 2014 2nd for phaneuf
This is a good offer. I personally don't think we can really get a better offer than this.

Most Leafs fans are blinded by the fact that he is a true #1 d-man because he is put into that role, not necessarily that he is actually one.

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01-28-2013, 06:19 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Fearless Leaf View Post
This is a good offer. I personally don't think we can really get a better offer than this.

Most Leafs fans are blinded by the fact that he is a true #1 d-man because he is put into that role, not necessarily that he is actually one.
If the prospect is Siemens/Elliott/Barrie I would probably do it

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01-28-2013, 06:45 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Fearless Leaf View Post
This is a good offer. I personally don't think we can really get a better offer than this.

Most Leafs fans are blinded by the fact that he is a true #1 d-man because he is put into that role, not necessarily that he is actually one.
I should clarify that's what I would want from a Toronto POV

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01-28-2013, 06:51 PM
  #67
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The Leafs are the softest group of hockey players even with Dion. I can't believe people are actually entertaining the idea of moving him. Despicable.

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01-28-2013, 06:57 PM
  #68
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Phaneuf is are most important player he shuts down the other teams top line (most of the time) and contributes offensively. I wouldn't trade him for anything other then an overpayment.

I'd consider it if we got back a valuable piece like Duchene. Duchene's value is pretty hard to gauge because he could up be a 60 point guy or a 75 point guy. I honestly don't see him as a 70 + point guy but we need at least a 1B type centre so if that options was available I would do it. Phaneuf might not be worth a 1A centre but he's at least worth a 1B.

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01-28-2013, 06:59 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearless Leaf View Post
This is a good offer. I personally don't think we can really get a better offer than this.

Most Leafs fans are blinded by the fact that he is a true #1 d-man because he is put into that role, not necessarily that he is actually one.
Absolutely no from the Avs. Downie is extremely useful to the avs, that first could be a much better player than Phaneuf and I wouldn't add a prospect like Siemens, Sgarbossa or Elliot/Barrie. Phaneuf is a good player but isn't a good fit for the Avs and would cost us too much.

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01-28-2013, 07:03 PM
  #70
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Would the Avs be willing to look at a deal involving Phaneuf and ROR?

I am probably higher on ROR than most Leaf players, but I think he will be very good.

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01-28-2013, 07:50 PM
  #71
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Would the Avs be willing to look at a deal involving Phaneuf and ROR?

I am probably higher on ROR than most Leaf players, but I think he will be very good.
ROR is very important for our future. I don't believe the rumours he's being shopped. A 1-2 punch of Duchene and O'reilly seems like our best option. O'reilly just is more important to the Avs than Phaneuf would be.

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01-28-2013, 07:51 PM
  #72
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I'm very hesitant to move Phaneuf unless we are getting a key young piece coming back.

Would Philly move Couturier for him because they are desperate for D? I'd consider that deal as a Leafs fan.

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Old
01-28-2013, 08:12 PM
  #73
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Leafs can't trade Phaneuf. We will need him when we make the play-offs this year.

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Old
01-29-2013, 12:18 AM
  #74
EucaLEAFtys
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Leafs can't trade Phaneuf. We will need him when we make the play-offs this year.
Not sure if serious....

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Old
01-29-2013, 12:20 AM
  #75
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Dion Phaneuf
Matt Frattin
FOR
TJ Oshie

????

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