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Old
01-28-2013, 11:04 AM
  #376
tantalum
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Originally Posted by YogiCanucks View Post
When Hodgson was 18 his NHL speed was 'poor'. Pretty much all of agree'd by last season he was no longer a poor skater. Not fast by any stretch but good enough that combined with his IQ should bail him out.
The problem is that his lack of acceleration is going to force him to be perfect in his reading of the play or what happened yesterday will continue to happen. His positioning wasn't bad but Ward simply beat him to the puck. Hodgson can't get himself moving fast enough quick enough to stop that guy jumping by him to get the chance. It needs to improve especially playing center ice.

His skating has gotten better (though given his really slow skating was injury related I'm not thorughly convinced of that), but while it was adequate for the canucks last year with him on the wing and playing soft minutes, lining up on the top 2 lines game in and game out shows his skating isn't yet at the level it needs to be for that role. At least IMO. He'll need to improve it.

On if the stats are unreasonably skewed...I don't think so. His defensive zone play has been terrible and when it's his man getting the grade A scoring chance or his giveaway providing that chance I don't think we can talk much about SV% etc. The giveaway behind the net in the Canes game. Ward beating him to the puck. You shouldn't expect a goaltender to make those saves.

If I'm Hodgson, I work extremely hard on the defensive side of the game because that is what will limit him. That is what will see him stapled to the bench or losing ground on the depth chart. A coach is going to go with guy who may not be quite as offensively skilled but who is stronger defensively nearly every single time in the NHL. Especially if that guy has the size Hodgson doesn't have.

If, say, Grigorenko in the next 12-18 months shows himself to be competent defensively it may directly threaten either Ennis or Hodgson on the Sabres roster. Hodgson while still young will be 5 years removed from the draft this summer and have 150 NHL games under his belt. He needs to show some significant strides this season in his rough areas (skating, defense, perhaps fitness) or it becomes a very real possibility that the Sabres start turning their eyes to someone else. (some similar things can be said of Ennis). Not saying he's a bust or anything but the point where it's time to **** or get off the pot is creeping up on young Hodgson.


Last edited by tantalum: 01-28-2013 at 11:13 AM.
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Old
01-28-2013, 11:13 AM
  #377
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just a question- Does anyone know if Vanek and Pominville are good defensively? When Hodgson played here he obviously played with more defensive oriented guys that covered for him, but did not help contribute offensively for the extent of a top 6 forward. Could Hodgson's defensive struggles be because he had that support here or could it be because Vanek and Pominville are playing lackluster defense themselves? I would assume both are involved but it would be interesting to get an opinion on it.

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01-28-2013, 11:32 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
just a question- Does anyone know if Vanek and Pominville are good defensively? When Hodgson played here he obviously played with more defensive oriented guys that covered for him, but did not help contribute offensively for the extent of a top 6 forward. Could Hodgson's defensive struggles be because he had that support here or could it be because Vanek and Pominville are playing lackluster defense themselves? I would assume both are involved but it would be interesting to get an opinion on it.
No idea really, but for many of his minuses so far what they have done is particularly relevant. We are talking about things that aren't group efforts but rather direct result of his giveaway or blown coverage. Not only that it's a similar thing as happened last year when he was with the Sabres.

Just +/- stuff, both Pominville and Vanel have excelled at times in their careers (+47 for Vanek one year), but not knowing the specifics including team roles and player usage it's an impossible thing to call.

Kid has talent and a lot of it. He just needs to be careful that the poorer aspects of game don't derail his career. Not that he'll be out of the nHL but is he a top 2 center on a contender or is he a second line center on poor and mediocre teams? It's his skating and defensive game which is going to answer that question. His shot, passing and vision are all excellent and won't limit him.

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01-28-2013, 11:57 AM
  #379
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Vanek and Pominville are both pretty average defensively. I've seen better and I've seen worse. That said, it's Hodgson dragging them down right now — in every aspect. Hell, even his 3 goals are a product of playing with guys who have 8 and 7 points. He is so far out of his depth at #1C it's not even funny.

I knew the Sabres were in trouble when they thought it best to trade Derek Roy and go with Hodgson and Ennis as their 1-2 punch at center. Unless their goal is to draft Top 5 this season.

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01-28-2013, 12:11 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Vanek and Pominville are both pretty average defensively. I've seen better and I've seen worse. That said, it's Hodgson dragging them down right now — in every aspect. Hell, even his 3 goals are a product of playing with guys who have 8 and 7 points. He is so far out of his depth at #1C it's not even funny.

I knew the Sabres were in trouble when they thought it best to trade Derek Roy and go with Hodgson and Ennis as their 1-2 punch at center. Unless their goal is to draft Top 5 this season.
Pominville and Vanek have been pretty poor defensively this year. They have each been making poor defensive plays that cannot be attributed solely to Cody Hodgson. Hell, just against the Hurricanes (I believe), Pominville tried to pass the puck out of his zone and it was picked off by a Cane and that player scored.

It is interesting that you bring up Derek Roy and suggest that Cody Hodgson is the main reason why that line is so poor defensively. Statistically, this doesn't seem to be the case. Of the 20 forwards that dressed for the Sabres last year, Pominville and Roy were tied for worst in terms of +/- (-7) while Vanek was not much better with a -6. It appears, at least statistically, that their top line was poor defensively last year.


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01-28-2013, 12:14 PM
  #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
just a question- Does anyone know if Vanek and Pominville are good defensively? When Hodgson played here he obviously played with more defensive oriented guys that covered for him, but did not help contribute offensively for the extent of a top 6 forward. Could Hodgson's defensive struggles be because he had that support here or could it be because Vanek and Pominville are playing lackluster defense themselves? I would assume both are involved but it would be interesting to get an opinion on it.
Pominville is good defensively, and Vanek is quick enough to get back to support the D.

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01-28-2013, 03:11 PM
  #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Vanek and Pominville are both pretty average defensively. I've seen better and I've seen worse. That said, it's Hodgson dragging them down right now in every aspect. Hell, even his 3 goals are a product of playing with guys who have 8 and 7 points. He is so far out of his depth at #1C it's not even funny.

I knew the Sabres were in trouble when they thought it best to trade Derek Roy and go with Hodgson and Ennis as their 1-2 punch at center. Unless their goal is to draft Top 5 this season.
When you go with Hodgson, Ennis and Grigorenko as your top centremen, you're absolutely looking to draft in the top 5 and IMO there's no question this is an intentional tank job. Fully expect Regier to unload veterans at the deadline and secure that top pick. With where their team is at, hard to argue with this decision.

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Old
01-28-2013, 03:19 PM
  #383
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I just read the most realistic post on the Leafs board...ever...

Quote:
Originally Posted by grog View Post
Kessel is one dimensional.
He is soft, rarely hits anyone and avoids contact often to the detriment of the play.
He doesn't play in the tough areas
He is not a leader
He is not very good at making space for himself
He is not a a very good play maker
He will never be more than what he is, he doesn't have the personality for it.
His fate will soon be in his hands, the leafs will lose control.
He scored a lot of goals in a all offense first system, that system is gone.
He is a very good goal scorer, are the leafs in a position to take advantage of what he brings? Not really, the foundation is too weak.

Kessel is the icing, not the cake, so really, unless they could be very sure that he will resign for reasonable dollars, and they can be fairly sure they will get seriously good players to play with him, he should be traded. He would be a real asset to a good team, but what he brings is wasted both for himself and a team that is still a long way off.

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Old
01-28-2013, 03:21 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
I just read the most realistic post on the Leafs board...ever...

Never thought I'd ever see a Leafs fan say all those things in one post.

I also liked how he put this:

Quote:
Kessel is the icing, not the cake
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I don't think the Leafs win anything as long as they have Kessel.

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Old
01-28-2013, 03:39 PM
  #385
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I don't think the Leafs win anything as long as they have Kessel.
No cake, no cup.

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Old
01-28-2013, 03:40 PM
  #386
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Quote:
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No cake, no cup.
Penner has panCAKEs, so the Kings won the cup.

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01-28-2013, 03:55 PM
  #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
Never thought I'd ever see a Leafs fan say all those things in one post.

I also liked how he put this:



I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I don't think the Leafs win anything as long as they have Kessel.
They could win with him, but the problem is that there's no foundation to support him. Like the cake analogy, there's almost no strength down the middle save for Grabovski, only icing (wingers like Lupul and Kessel). You build teams from the inside out (centers, D and goalies) first, rather than what the Leafs have done - from the outside in. Even Burke himself claimed that he built teams from the net out... even if he never actually followed that in practice.

Burkie tried to go for a re-tool rather than a full rebuild when the base was lacking to begin with, and it still ended up getting them nowhere. How good would their future look right now with Seguin and Hamilton? A #1C and a first pairing offensive defenceman...

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01-28-2013, 03:55 PM
  #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
Never thought I'd ever see a Leafs fan say all those things in one post.

I also liked how he put this:



I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I don't think the Leafs win anything as long as they have Kessel.
if thats a statement about how far they have to go to become a competitor i agree. if that's a statement about how "you cant win with players like kessel" you should probably fix your terrible opinion

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01-28-2013, 04:02 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
if thats a statement about how far they have to go to become a competitor i agree. if that's a statement about how "you cant win with players like kessel" you should probably fix your terrible opinion
They can win with Kessel, but he's icing and nothing more. IMO, they need a more heart and soul player ala Kesler. That's something I don't see Kessel providing anytime soon, hence why I think they won't win with him unless they get some cake with some chocolate filling.

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01-28-2013, 04:04 PM
  #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy Punch Clock View Post
No cake, no cup.
It's fact. They just don't have those depth players IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
They could win with him, but the problem is that there's no foundation to support him. Like the cake analogy, there's almost no strength down the middle save for Grabovski, only icing (wingers like Lupul and Kessel). You build teams from the inside out (centers, D and goalies) first, rather than what the Leafs have done - from the outside in. Even Burke himself claimed that he built teams from the net out... even if he never actually followed that in practice.

Burkie tried to go for a re-tool rather than a full rebuild when the base was lacking to begin with, and it still ended up getting them nowhere. How good would their future look right now with Seguin and Hamilton? A #1C and a first pairing offensive defenceman...
Agree with what you said. For example from our team during our Cup run, we had Higgins, Hansen, Lapierre list goes on that stepped up at various times. Need that cake long before the icing.

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01-28-2013, 04:09 PM
  #391
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BTW- If XXX is the naughty edition, shouldn't Around the League LIV be the Liv Tyler edition?


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01-28-2013, 04:12 PM
  #392
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01-28-2013, 04:35 PM
  #393
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01-28-2013, 06:14 PM
  #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Vanek and Pominville are both pretty average defensively. I've seen better and I've seen worse. That said, it's Hodgson dragging them down right now — in every aspect. Hell, even his 3 goals are a product of playing with guys who have 8 and 7 points. He is so far out of his depth at #1C it's not even funny.

I knew the Sabres were in trouble when they thought it best to trade Derek Roy and go with Hodgson and Ennis as their 1-2 punch at center. Unless their goal is to draft Top 5 this season.
Hypothetically because I think they are better than that, but if they draft top 5 they will be taking a centre and not Jones since I can't see them being in the top 2 picks unless they win the lottery. Does Hodgson asked to get moved again when he sees who is in the centre pipeline?


Last edited by me2: 01-28-2013 at 06:22 PM.
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01-28-2013, 06:32 PM
  #395
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Thankfully the Hawks and Sharks fast starts aren't that much of an issue for us, president's trophies we have already. All we need to do finish on top of our division, top 3 in the west would be nice. The top 5 teams are all going to be tough, Blues+Hawks, SJ+LA, if LA get's its act together. Dodging the #5 would be nice. Having said all that it will be interesting to see what the #8 is this year, with the shortened season they could a joke team or a good team.

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01-28-2013, 06:32 PM
  #396
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Montreal signed Subban to a two year contract

are they paying him to trade him eventually one day within the next year or two, i wonder

seems like that kind of contract length

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01-28-2013, 06:36 PM
  #397
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Montreal signed Subban to a two year contract

are they paying him to trade him eventually one day within the next year or two, i wonder

seems like that kind of contract length
With that cap hit, they shouldn't. He'll still be a RFA when the current contract expires, so the team maintains its leverage the next go-round...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
LouisJean_TVA:
Contract details for PK Subban deal: 2million in year 1 & 3.75 in year 2.

https://twitter.com/louisjean_tva/st...52116210978816

Amazing!!!

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01-28-2013, 06:44 PM
  #398
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Oh tsn didn't have the actual numbers in the article i read so i didn't know them.

Thats an outstanding deal for them

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Old
01-28-2013, 06:52 PM
  #399
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^ Hell of a deal for MTL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by me2 View Post
Thankfully the Hawks and Sharks fast starts aren't that much of an issue for us, president's trophies we have already. All we need to do finish on top of our division, top 3 in the west would be nice. The top 5 teams are all going to be tough, Blues+Hawks, SJ+LA, if LA get's its act together. Dodging the #5 would be nice. Having said all that it will be interesting to see what the #8 is this year, with the shortened season they could a joke team or a good team.
We've been pretty unlucky to draw two very strong No. 8 seeds the past 2 years. Seems to be a trend going back to '09.

But I agree - just get to the playoffs fully healthy, and hope for some luck with regard to injuries and matchups. I could see the Blues winning the conference, and Kings should be division winners so at least top 3 (still think they're better than the Sharks).

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01-28-2013, 07:19 PM
  #400
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That Subban deal is incredibly short sighted. Yeah, they have him on a very reasonable cap hit for the next two seasons, but realistically they are a team that is a couple of seasons away from competing. They gave up the opportunity of reducing his salary in future years, when they'll actually be competitive, through a long term deal in order to have cap savings over the next two seasons, when they likely won't. Can't say that I understand that.

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