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ATD 2013 - Draft Thread II

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Old
01-28-2013, 08:29 PM
  #176
Johnny Engine
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Well, now that that ordeal is out of the way, I have no hesitation adding a starting goaltender named Clint Benedict.

In addition, now Yekaterinburg has two of the most well-rounded offensive forces in the draft, because we've got Anatoli Firsov!


Rot in Columbus, Nalyd.

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01-28-2013, 08:29 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Quick change of plan there JFA
Sh**! I was hoping nobody caught that. I read the wrong list

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01-28-2013, 08:30 PM
  #178
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Just kidding, by the way. No need to start the bad blood before the playoffs at least.

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01-28-2013, 08:32 PM
  #179
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Great 2 picks in Benedict and Firsov.

The Pittsburgh Bankers Select Defenseman J.C. Tremblay

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01-28-2013, 08:40 PM
  #180
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Now, assuming that gritty playmaking right wing who can skate is out there somewhere, I'm good to go...

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Old
01-28-2013, 08:40 PM
  #181
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Now, assuming that gritty playmaking right wing who can skate is out there somewhere, I'm good to go...
i have no idea, since you never updated your roster post!

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Old
01-28-2013, 08:41 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Didn't Hooley Smith only receive a 2nd and 4th Hart placement in his entire career, never receiving a single vote in any other years? It's hard to believe he would get 6AS.
'24-25: 12th (3rd among RWs)
'25-26: 4th (1st among RWs)
'26-27: No votes, Bill Cook only RW to receive votes, articles in Dishing the dirt thread indicate Hooley Smith was concidered for the informal all-star teams, possible second team all-star.)
'27-28: Only 6 players received votes, no RW. One source has him 3rd among RWs, another 1st.
'28-29: Only 7 players received votes, Smith played extensive minutes at both centre and defence, probably too much to be an all-star at either position. In the first half, was 2nd team Centre, but played primarily defence in the second half.
'29-30: Only 6 players received votes. No RWs.
'30-31: Only 8 players received votes. Under modern systems, he'd be 4th for RW, under system of the day, 5th for 1st team and 5th for 2nd team.
'31-32: Only 4 players received votes. Smith was 2nd team all-star centre, received votes at LW and RW as well.
'32-33: We only have info for 3 players receiving votes. 3rd team all-star at centre.
'33-34: Only 5 players received votes. 3rd team all-star at centre.
'34-35: Only 5 players received votes. No all-star love.
'35-36: 2nd in Hart voting, 1st team all-star.
'36-37: Only 5 players received votes. No all-star love.
'37-'38: Only 5 players received votes. From this point forward he was primarily a defenceman and did not get all-star love at defence.

So, main point, his lack of Hart love has more to do with a lack of players getting Hart votes and Hart votes consistently being less than the 12 all-star spots available.

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Old
01-28-2013, 08:51 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
i have no idea, since you never updated your roster post!
It's generally a poor idea to add guys you haven't picked yet to your roster post. Totally showing your cards.

Speaking of showing one's cards, I was actually considering offering you sweetened later-round picks to ensure you picked Abel (who I thought you might like) instead of Hooley to play with Esposito. Sort of a Kluzak/Bellows thing. In hindsight, the whole thing seems a little silly.

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01-28-2013, 09:01 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
I hope to write up a quality bio on him, but the big points are:
1. No major weaknesses.
2. He can play the wing, and there aren't clearly better wingers at this point.
3. Elite glue guys are one of the rarest things in the ATD.
4. Proven chemistry with Nighbor.
penalties must be considered a weakness of hooley smith. i think hooley was short for hooligan.

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Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Has Hooley Smith risen in every single ATD? He must be on pace to be drafted in the first round around 2020.

By the way, the table TDMM quoted earlier is selected for Richard's prime seasons and includes a low-scoring rookie year from Ullman. Here's a table with the even strength scoring leaders over Ullman's prime.

Even strength scoring leaders from 1958-59 through 1970-71
Player GP ESG ESA ESP ESP/G
Bobby Hull 888 390 321 711 0.80
Stan Mikita 845 246 383 629 0.74
Norm Ullman 911 281 371 652 0.72
Henri Richard 825 215 375 590 0.72
Gordie Howe 911 267 378 645 0.71
Jean Beliveau 812 230 333 563 0.69
Frank Mahovlich 886 314 275 589 0.66
Andy Bathgate 756 202 286 488 0.65
Alex Delvecchio 924 217 345 562 0.61

I'm not convinced Ullman is the best fit with Jagr, but I do think he's a good pick at this point.
i don't think ullman would be as good a C for jagr, but he is C for guy lafleur. lafleur did not keep the puck as much as jagr.

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01-28-2013, 09:07 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
penalties must be considered a weakness of hooley smith. i think hooley was short for hooligan.
He had a few seasons early in his career, but he had his PIM under control for most of his 17 year career. He was fearless and tough, but latter in his careers he was often described as classy.

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01-28-2013, 09:26 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
penalties must be considered a weakness of hooley smith. i think hooley was short for hooligan.
You say that like it's a bad thing....

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01-28-2013, 09:28 PM
  #187
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You say that like it's a bad thing....
Undisciplined penalties that lead to powerplay goals against are a very bad thing.

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01-28-2013, 09:50 PM
  #188
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Undisciplined penalties that lead to powerplay goals against are a very bad thing.
And Smith wasn't known for that. His most undisciplined plays were when he and Eddie Shore went at it, and well, I'm not being modest about my player when I say that having Eddie Shore in the penalty box is much more damaging to the team.

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01-28-2013, 09:56 PM
  #189
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The Philadelphia Flyers are very happy to add the anchor to our 2nd pairing and one of the best #2 defensemen in this draft, a man who was the #1 defenseman on 3 Stanley Cup champion teams, and the #2 on another D Scott Niedermayer


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01-28-2013, 09:58 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
i don't think ullman would be as good a C for jagr, but he is C for guy lafleur. lafleur did not keep the puck as much as jagr.
Right, Lafleur, not Jagr.

I think the biggest issue that a centre has in meshing with Lafleur is that Lafleur was extremely unpredictable. He played his own way and his teammates had to adjust. I read Larry Robinson's book recently and he describes how Lafleur would practice for hours on his own, working on his moves, and it was incredible to watch. But in practice with the rest of the team he was always the first to make a mistake in a drill. He just couldn't play in a limited situation. As a result the other skaters on the ice had to adjust to him in game situations - but they didn't mind because he was so amazing.

Ullman tended to play with wingers who were pure up-and-down the wing guys. Some of them were good players - several of them are regular bottom-sixers in the ATD - but all were very conventional wingers.

The exception is Gordie Howe, who Ullman played with for three seasons earlier in his career. But 1. Howe played a more conventional style than Lafleur, and 2. those were not among Ullman's best years - his best scoring seasons were with ordinary wingers.

Ullman's hardly the only player in the ATD who has to go from being a featured player to being a supporting player who has to play off a better linemate, and maybe he would be fully capable of doing so. It's just a bit of an unknown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
And Smith wasn't known for that. His most undisciplined plays were when he and Eddie Shore went at it, and well, I'm not being modest about my player when I say that having Eddie Shore in the penalty box is much more damaging to the team.
Yeah, the high PIM players often draw as many penalties as they take.

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01-28-2013, 09:58 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
The Philadelphia Flyers are very happy to add the anchor to our 2nd pairing and one of the best #2 defensemen in this draft, a man who was the #1 defenseman on 3 Stanley Cup champion teams, and the #2 on another D Scott Niedermayer
I can here TDMM screaming at his computer screen from here.

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01-28-2013, 10:00 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
The Philadelphia Flyers are very happy to add the anchor to our 2nd pairing and one of the best #2 defensemen in this draft, a man who was the #1 defenseman on 3 Stanley Cup champion teams, and the #2 on another D Scott Niedermayer

TDMM might come through his laptop screen and beat you to death for saying that.

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01-28-2013, 10:02 PM
  #193
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43. nik jr. - University of Alaska Nanooks - Chris Pronger, D
.
.
.
99. BillyShoe1721 - Philadelphia Flyers - Scott Niedermayer, D
The ol' Pronger vs. Niedermayer debate seems absent here; or, Scott is an extremely good value pick relative to Chris.


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01-28-2013, 10:05 PM
  #194
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I think the debate is basically settled in Pronger's favor.

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01-28-2013, 10:06 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
I can here TDMM screaming at his computer screen from here.
In the regular season he was #2 in 95, and #1 in 2000, 2003, and 2007 in TOI/G. In the playoffs he was undetermined in 95(probably 2nd), 1st in 2000 by 2 seconds over Stevens(9 seconds ahead in ES), 1st in 2003(3rd in ES), and 3rd in 2007 with Beauchemin(he's not getting picked here) and Pronger logging over 30 minutes and Niedermayer at 29:50.

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01-28-2013, 10:07 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
In the regular season he was #2 in 95, and #1 in 2000, 2003, and 2007 in TOI/G. In the playoffs he was undetermined in 95(probably 2nd), 1st in 2000 by 2 seconds over Stevens(9 seconds ahead in ES), 1st in 2003(3rd in ES), and 3rd in 2007 with Beauchemin(he's not getting picked here) and Pronger logging over 30 minutes and Niedermayer at 29:50.
wait, you were serious?

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01-28-2013, 10:08 PM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
The ol' Pronger vs. Niedermayer debate seems absent here; or, Scott is an extremely good value pick relative to Chris.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think the debate is basically settled in Pronger's favor.
I don't think there is too much of a real debate, Pronger is the better overall player. The debate is whether they should be separated by 56 picks. I think Pronger has climbed a little too high, and Niedermayer is just about where he should be. Maybe he could be a little higher, but not much.

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wait, you were serious?
No, Stevens was clearly the #1 on those 3 Devils teams. Just pushing your buttons.

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01-28-2013, 10:08 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
In the regular season he was #2 in 95, and #1 in 2000, 2003, and 2007 in TOI/G.
Oh see, I thought when you said #1 defenseman you meant #1 defenseman.

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wait, you were serious?
Ohhhh here he goes!! Take cover!

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01-28-2013, 10:11 PM
  #199
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01-28-2013, 10:12 PM
  #200
TheDevilMadeMe
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I was kind of hoping you were serious, so we could all laugh at how stupid it is to rank defensemen based off ice time (wish 70s was here reading this ) Oh well.

Niedermayer was a good pick if you really wanted a defenseman.

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