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David Desharnais Discussion (Slow Start & Contact Talk)

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:19 PM
  #126
Habs Junkie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
The guy destroyed the AHL. Even if he's not NHL caliber in your mind(which he is), how is he a 2nd line center in AHL? Doesn't even make sense.

I'm not french either but wow. You wonder why some people think comments like this are from haters. 2nd line center in AHL.

How is he wrong for calling you out? Any logical person would agree what you said made little sense.
This is not a french/english debate (for me at least). I'm making the point that he is not NHL caliber. Let's see how he does playing along side someone not named Pacioretty and get back to me then.

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01-29-2013, 12:36 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
This is not a french/english debate (for me at least). I'm making the point that he is not NHL caliber. Let's see how he does playing along side someone not named Pacioretty and get back to me then.
Hey, there is nothing wrong with trying to make a point but...well, he does have a point... how is DD a 2nd line center in AHL?

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01-29-2013, 01:47 AM
  #128
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Through 8 games last season DD's stats were:

1 goal/2assists....-3......5 shots....in only two of his first 8 games was his faceoff percentage above 50 (2 were in the 20s and 3 were in the 30s).

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01-29-2013, 01:49 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Through 8 games last season DD's stats were:

1 goal/2assists....-3......5 shots....in only two of his first 8 games was his faceoff percentage above 50 (two were in the 20s and 2 were in the 30s).
But he wasn't playing on a first line.

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01-29-2013, 03:04 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Shaby23 View Post
But he wasn't playing on a first line.
He was averaging 18 minutes per game...so plenty of ice time and pp time.

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01-29-2013, 03:19 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by pepperMonkey View Post
Hey, there is nothing wrong with trying to make a point but...well, he does have a point... how is DD a 2nd line center in AHL?
He's a 2nd rate AHL center if any of the following is true for the individual stating that idea:

a) one cannot deduce that http://theahl.com/stats/statdisplay....id=-1&confId=0 makes one a tad bit better than a run-of-the-mill AHL center.

b) one believes that http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...=nav-sts-indiv doesn't mean anything.

c) one has suffered a serious head injury.

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01-29-2013, 03:58 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Just had some fun reading PartisanCH posts. Seems he wanted to trade Plekanec, Eller, Price, and build around Desharnais. Oh yeah, Galchenyuk for Huberdeau too. And you call me a troll? lolololol
1- I'm not the one who called you a troll

2- I agree with the one who said it tho

3- I NEVER wanted to trade Plekanec or Eller, I don't know where you found that.

4- I've always been a big fan of Price. I was against the Halak trade (and still think it was a bad trade), but I never wanted to trade Price. But I'm sure I said that if we really needed to trade one, Price would have brought a much bigger return.

5- I remember talking about the possibility of trading Galchenyuk for Huberdeau just after the draft. I don't think I said "We should do it!" And now, I think it would be a bad idea anyway.

6- If you have to dig into a poster's history because you're out of argument, then maybe it's time for you to change thread before it becomes personal.

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01-29-2013, 05:26 AM
  #133
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Anymore personal attacks, baiting, flaming, trolling, etc will be hit with an infraction and thread ban.

On another note, Desharnais finally got credit for his assist last night. His 2-points in 4 games is a little more respectable. I expected between 30-35 points this year from him, so we will see.

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01-29-2013, 06:24 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
One thing I never understood is DD-Cole-Max played together the majority of last year. When DD made a point, soft minutes. When Max made a point, future star?
It only takes 60 seconds to look up.

Pacioretty scored 33 goals in 79 games last year playing easy minutes against a (weak) Corsi Rel Qoc = +0.068, yes.

He also scored 14 goals in 37 games the year before that (identical production within the margin of error), playing with Gomez and Gionta against substantially more difficult opposition, Corsi Rel Qoc = +0.482. That proves Pacioretty doesn't need easy minutes to produce at a high level.

You know what Desharnais' Corsi Rel QoC was in 2010-2011? -0.526. It was +0.007 in 2011-2012, also very weak. Compare that to legitimate 1st line centers around the NHL like Joe Thornton (+1.497) and Ryan Getzlaf (+0.843).


Last edited by TP: 01-29-2013 at 06:49 AM. Reason: mod
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Old
01-29-2013, 09:03 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by pepperMonkey View Post
*Sigh* Pleks and his line has a full bad year and gets a pass while DD has 4 bad games and everyone is up in arms. Really? Not surprising I guess considering people were yelling and screaming after the first game how last years DD was just a mirage. If you can forgive last years Pleks, I think it's prudent to give DD a little slack.

And for the record, I don't think he should be a 1st C unless he improves on last years results. Then again, I don't consider Plek to be a first line C either (though I do think Plek is more important to the team as a 2nd C then DD playing in any other line).
Pleks gets a pass? In what universe? People were ready to trade him the minute we drafted Galchenyuk. Hell, people were crying out to trade him at last year's trade deadline because DD had apparently taken his place.

Pleks did not have a good year offensively, but he was the closest thing the team had to a 2-way centre. The guy gets every tough matchup and all the tough minutes. Despite this, he was bashed all of last season, I don't see how he got a pass whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
To be fair, I think it's a little more than 4 or 5 posters, and some of them are actually moderators. I know for sure that they are annoying and persistent enough to keep me away from this board, most of the time (which is sad because there's a lot of quality posters here).

The day I'll come on the Habs board without seeing any hating thread on a French canadian player has not arrived, yet.
You know what's sad? How you can't accept criticism for his stats or his style of play without resorting to pulling the "franco hater" card. I think it's absolutely absurd that nobody is allowed to say anything bad about the sacred Desharnais without you branding them franco haters. If you bash Rene Bourque, is it because you hate english Canadians?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
You're missing the point. When have you ever heard Max and "easy minutes" in same sentence. Never? Pretty much. Regardless of what people percieve he can do vs elite or 4th line talent, it's taboo to mention it despite him, cole and DD all getting career highs. The only person worth bringing up with the soft minutes tag is DD. Does it mean Cole nor Max are good or can't produce? Absolutely not. Just the same, they may not be 30 goal scorers in regular minutes either but that hasn't stopped projections of 30+ goals for max or cole.
Cole and Patch DID get easy minutes last year. The difference is they have the physical tools that most feel will translate to other situations. In Cole's case, he's done it before on other teams. In Max's case, he is a physical monster, though it is true he has yet to truly show he can dominate against elite opposition.

Quote:
Besides, you mistake me for someone who is saying DD is without flaw. He's small, he's not an incredible skater, not physical and so on. Yah, I know. I never said to ignore these things. All I really asked for is why someone like Eller or Cole can get away with slow starts but DD can't? Perhaps in the Cole case he's a vet with a proven record but Eller? ***** lol
Eller's been a healthy scratch for half the games this season and would have continued to be had it not been for Patch's injury. How is that getting a pass?

Quote:
This long conversation is based on me simply asking why aren't all the players judged fairly. There's nothing else to it. If DD sucks, say it. I really really don't care. I just find it hypocrital for some to turn around and say Eller's got 'it' or max didnt have easy minutes and so on. What are people trying to prove? Who can disprove the other person but using selective stats and specific timing?

I'm just saying, many players haven't produced and that's not an excuse for DD. I never said DD is off the hook, i'm just asking why other people aren't on it too. I think there's a big difference between saying DD can do no wrong because others are the same and saying DD hasn't been good along with some others and they ALL need to pick it up.

In your whole post, you brought up Cole and I agree. Cole has insane drive close to the net. Strong power forward with insane burst of speed in close. Yet, you never spoke about Eller. Why is it that when Eller doesn't produce, it's not his fault but when DD doesn't produce it is?
Honestly, you can't really use the same criteria to judge Eller as you'd use to judge DD. Eller is, ideally, a 3rd line checking centre. I don't feel he will be any more than that. DD is currently the #1 centre, and his role is to produce points and be a threat at all times.

When Koivu was here, he was the primary point producing centre AND was always matched up against the other team's #1 line. And yet, he was considered by many as "not good enough" to be a #1 centre. DD isn't able to play against the other team's top lines because he's simply too small, it won't work.

It's actually kind of funny because for DD to succeed, a guy like Eller needs to be playing well and eating up the toughest minutes. Yet for some reason, they are pit against each other in this thread...It's typical Montreal HFBoards, you can never like everyone on this team, it's always so polarized. If you like one player, you automatically hate everyone else who plays that same position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
The posters that are annoying me are those who find any excuse to say that DD is not as good as it seems, or that he makes the team worse, or that he should be traded, or that his success is everybody's fault but his. I mean, the posters who don't know anything about hockey and who just want to get rid of some players because they can't stand seeing a French Canadian having success. I'm sorry that I have to say it that clearly and put on name on it, but this is real, some people here really think this way, and here hockey arguments are useless.

And I'm not aiming at anglos particularly. Actually, you would be surprised to see how the worse French Canadian haters are French Canadians themselves. See Samuel L. Jackson in Django Unchained, and you'll understand what I mean.
You know what I find most interesting about you? You brand anyone who says anything negative about Desharnais as an automatic franco hater. As if the only reason anyone would ever say anything bad about him is clearly because they MUST hate Quebecers. And you go on to say these people "know nothing about hockey"...And yet, earlier in this thread, you called the Corsi stat a "made up stat" that people used only to discredit Desharnais and prop up Plekanec and Eller.

You're right about one thing though. The worst French Canadian haters are indeed French Canadians themselves. And you, my friend, are the perfect example. Creating language issues where they do not exist. Making yourself into a victim when you are not one.

You say that the people who say anything bad about Desharnais know nothing about hockey. In this entire thread, I have not seen you say one thing hockey related about Desharnais. Nothing about his playing style, his strengths, his talent, his weaknesses, NOTHING. The only thing you've talked about is language. As for myself, someone you brand as a simple "hater" who knows "nothing about hockey", I gave an objective analysis of his strengths and weaknesses earlier in this thread. One that I feel is fair in highlighting his strongest and weakest points, as well as what I feel is his ideal useage would be.

But since I'm a simple hater and I know nothing, please Mr. Hockey Expert, enlighten me. Show me where I'm wrong. You don't even need to use "made up stats" that NHL scouts use regularly, if you don't want to. Heh, the Corsi stat was created by a Quebecer, ironically enough...

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:20 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
This is not a french/english debate (for me at least). I'm making the point that he is not NHL caliber. Let's see how he does playing along side someone not named Pacioretty and get back to me then.
You haven't made a single good point about why he's not NHL caliber.

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01-29-2013, 10:37 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Pleks gets a pass? In what universe? People were ready to trade him the minute we drafted Galchenyuk. Hell, people were crying out to trade him at last year's trade deadline because DD had apparently taken his place.

Pleks did not have a good year offensively, but he was the closest thing the team had to a 2-way centre. The guy gets every tough matchup and all the tough minutes. Despite this, he was bashed all of last season, I don't see how he got a pass whatsoever.



You know what's sad? How you can't accept criticism for his stats or his style of play without resorting to pulling the "franco hater" card. I think it's absolutely absurd that nobody is allowed to say anything bad about the sacred Desharnais without you branding them franco haters. If you bash Rene Bourque, is it because you hate english Canadians?



Cole and Patch DID get easy minutes last year. The difference is they have the physical tools that most feel will translate to other situations. In Cole's case, he's done it before on other teams. In Max's case, he is a physical monster, though it is true he has yet to truly show he can dominate against elite opposition.



Eller's been a healthy scratch for half the games this season and would have continued to be had it not been for Patch's injury. How is that getting a pass?



Honestly, you can't really use the same criteria to judge Eller as you'd use to judge DD. Eller is, ideally, a 3rd line checking centre. I don't feel he will be any more than that. DD is currently the #1 centre, and his role is to produce points and be a threat at all times.

When Koivu was here, he was the primary point producing centre AND was always matched up against the other team's #1 line. And yet, he was considered by many as "not good enough" to be a #1 centre. DD isn't able to play against the other team's top lines because he's simply too small, it won't work.

It's actually kind of funny because for DD to succeed, a guy like Eller needs to be playing well and eating up the toughest minutes. Yet for some reason, they are pit against each other in this thread...It's typical Montreal HFBoards, you can never like everyone on this team, it's always so polarized. If you like one player, you automatically hate everyone else who plays that same position.



You know what I find most interesting about you? You brand anyone who says anything negative about Desharnais as an automatic franco hater. As if the only reason anyone would ever say anything bad about him is clearly because they MUST hate Quebecers. And you go on to say these people "know nothing about hockey"...And yet, earlier in this thread, you called the Corsi stat a "made up stat" that people used only to discredit Desharnais and prop up Plekanec and Eller.

You're right about one thing though. The worst French Canadian haters are indeed French Canadians themselves. And you, my friend, are the perfect example. Creating language issues where they do not exist. Making yourself into a victim when you are not one.

You say that the people who say anything bad about Desharnais know nothing about hockey. In this entire thread, I have not seen you say one thing hockey related about Desharnais. Nothing about his playing style, his strengths, his talent, his weaknesses, NOTHING. The only thing you've talked about is language. As for myself, someone you brand as a simple "hater" who knows "nothing about hockey", I gave an objective analysis of his strengths and weaknesses earlier in this thread. One that I feel is fair in highlighting his strongest and weakest points, as well as what I feel is his ideal useage would be.

But since I'm a simple hater and I know nothing, please Mr. Hockey Expert, enlighten me. Show me where I'm wrong. You don't even need to use "made up stats" that NHL scouts use regularly, if you don't want to. Heh, the Corsi stat was created by a Quebecer, ironically enough...
Brilliant post

I wish I had the patience to write something as long and as well thought out as you do, but I don't lol

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01-29-2013, 10:51 AM
  #138
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You haven't made a single good point about why he's not NHL caliber.
Ok I'll repeat myself since you skipped one of my earlier posts.
He can't handle strong passes. They roll off his stick most of the time.
He has below average speed for a guy his size.
He loses most puck battles in corners.
His forecheck is completely useless, always one step too late.
He's lost in the defensive zone, often floating around.
Gets outmuscled daily....

Do you need more? So far 0 good games out of 4. One last thing, find me one NHL team willing to trade their 1st or 2nd line center for Desharnais straight up.

That is all, for now...

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01-29-2013, 11:08 AM
  #139
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Holy Overreaction Batman.

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01-29-2013, 11:27 AM
  #140
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Desharnais' line is getting harder minutes this year. It'll be interesting to see how that line responds. Right now, I can't advocate to keep him at center when Pacioretty comes back. I'd love to see him create on his off-wing next season.

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Desharnais
Bourque - Eller - Gionta / Cole
Prust - Galchenyuk - Gallagher
Moen - White - Armstrong

I wonder what happens with Gionta / Cole in the summer.

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01-29-2013, 11:46 AM
  #141
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he's not good enough to play against top opposition , simple as that.

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Old
01-29-2013, 12:16 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
You know what I find most interesting about you? You brand anyone who says anything negative about Desharnais as an automatic franco hater. As if the only reason anyone would ever say anything bad about him is clearly because they MUST hate Quebecers. And you go on to say these people "know nothing about hockey"...And yet, earlier in this thread, you called the Corsi stat a "made up stat" that people used only to discredit Desharnais and prop up Plekanec and Eller.

You're right about one thing though. The worst French Canadian haters are indeed French Canadians themselves. And you, my friend, are the perfect example. Creating language issues where they do not exist. Making yourself into a victim when you are not one.

You say that the people who say anything bad about Desharnais know nothing about hockey. In this entire thread, I have not seen you say one thing hockey related about Desharnais. Nothing about his playing style, his strengths, his talent, his weaknesses, NOTHING. The only thing you've talked about is language. As for myself, someone you brand as a simple "hater" who knows "nothing about hockey", I gave an objective analysis of his strengths and weaknesses earlier in this thread. One that I feel is fair in highlighting his strongest and weakest points, as well as what I feel is his ideal useage would be.

But since I'm a simple hater and I know nothing, please Mr. Hockey Expert, enlighten me. Show me where I'm wrong. You don't even need to use "made up stats" that NHL scouts use regularly, if you don't want to. Heh, the Corsi stat was created by a Quebecer, ironically enough...
The reason why I haven't given an objective analysis of his strenghts and weaknesses is that I find this absolutely surreal, that on a serious hockey board, we have to defend the fact that a 65 points center is actually good enough to play in the NHL. In which kind of world do people live in to actually make it a legit debate?

It seems to me that his hockey skills are just too obvious, that any objective person can see that. He's the most creative forward with the puck to wear the Habs uniform since, I believe, Alex Kovalev. Most of the time, when he has the puck, he makes things happen and create scoring chances. His superior hockey sense makes him see openings that others don't. He's not the fastest skater, but his reaction time is among the quickest that you can see. He carries the puck in a way that you rarely see from such a small player, by creating an aura of invincibility around him, by creating space for himself that allows him to take his time before making a play. He's also a very responsible player defensively, rarely caught out of position, always the first to back check. Of course he has limitations because of his size, but his low center of gravity and his strong legs allows him to still be solid on his skates. His hard work, dedication and conditioning are also major strenghts.

The Habs have 3 wins this season and he's at the origin of 2 of the 3 game winning goals at crucial time, his +/- is even against top opposition, but apparently, it's a sign of regression...

You never see this kind of debate occuring on other team's board. Players making 65 points on their 1st full NHL season have usually a large fanbase and bandwagon. It was the case here too after the first good season that players such as Plekanec, Kostitsyn, Ryder, Higgins, Komisarek, Emelin, Subban and others did. Fans get excited about their young talented player and it's normal.

But why is there an exception for Desharnais? The thing is : I've been here for long enough. I've seen this thing happen before on this same exact board. It happened for Latendresse, for Lapierre, for Ribeiro... The sudden bashing for a promising young player was (coincidence?), usually coming from the same exact posters who thought "Dandouillon" were not an NHL player, that Brisebois was the worst defenseman ever, that Tanguay, Darche or Bégin were useless (at the time they were legit contributors), etc.

I don't want to target everyone as racist, or course. But this lack of excitement for a few selected promising youngsters, all French Canadians, is troubling, to say the least. On any other team board, you would see nothing but over excitement for a guy like Desharnais, the same way you see it for any promising Habs youngster on French speaking forums. But hey, here we have a unique exception in the league. And I'm sorry to point it out because I know it hurts to see it, but this exception is language based. I know it's sad, but ignoring the problem won't make it disappear. And accepting that "Is DD a NHL caliber player" is a legit hockey debate that should be solved by useless hockey argument represents for me a victory for the racists, because the same debate would never occur for any other young star.


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01-29-2013, 01:02 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post

(...)

You know what I find most interesting about you? You brand anyone who says anything negative about Desharnais as an automatic franco hater. As if the only reason anyone would ever say anything bad about him is clearly because they MUST hate Quebecers.

(...)
Stop building straw men; that’s not what Partisan du CH wrote. At all. Do you really want me to dig out old posts in an attempt to prove that, according to 4-5 hfboarders, speaking French is a negative?

Try me son. Pas l’temps d’niaiser!


PS Desharnais is not a second line AHLer!

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01-29-2013, 02:59 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Ok I'll repeat myself since you skipped one of my earlier posts.
He can't handle strong passes. They roll off his stick most of the time.
He has below average speed for a guy his size.
He loses most puck battles in corners.
His forecheck is completely useless, always one step too late.
He's lost in the defensive zone, often floating around.
Gets outmuscled daily....

Do you need more? So far 0 good games out of 4. One last thing, find me one NHL team willing to trade their 1st or 2nd line center for Desharnais straight up.

That is all, for now...
All that is is your opinion, which is disagree with. You have no facts to back up you're assertion that he's a 2nd line AHL centre.

Are you saying you would trade Desharnais for ANY 1st or 2nd line center? You'd take Bozak over Desharnais? What about Brassard or Umberger? Seriously?

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01-29-2013, 03:03 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
The reason why I haven't given an objective analysis of his strenghts and weaknesses is that I find this absolutely surreal, that on a serious hockey board, we have to defend the fact that a 60 points center is actually good enough to play in the NHL. In which kind of world do people live in to actually make it a legit debate?
.
End of thread . come on.
Dont feed the trolls people

Even if I agree that he's not a 1st center , hes a player who plays with passion.
The fact that we argue about this is ridiculous. not an nhl player.

Like Bergy , MT and the whole club doesnt know their hockey.

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01-29-2013, 03:05 PM
  #146
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It's like the ebb and flow of the Montreal Canadiens to have one line working and one line struggling.

The last time both lines worked properly in the season, the Canadiens were first in the East. The last time both lines worked properly in the playoffs, the Canadiens made it to the Eastern Conference final.

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01-29-2013, 03:42 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
The reason why I haven't given an objective analysis of his strenghts and weaknesses is that I find this absolutely surreal, that on a serious hockey board, we have to defend the fact that a 65 points center is actually good enough to play in the NHL. In which kind of world do people live in to actually make it a legit debate?

It seems to me that his hockey skills are just too obvious, that any objective person can see that. He's the most creative forward with the puck to wear the Habs uniform since, I believe, Alex Kovalev. Most of the time, when he has the puck, he makes things happen and create scoring chances. His superior hockey sense makes him see openings that others don't. He's not the fastest skater, but his reaction time is among the quickest that you can see. He carries the puck in a way that you rarely see from such a small player, by creating an aura of invincibility around him, by creating space for himself that allows him to take his time before making a play. He's also a very responsible player defensively, rarely caught out of position, always the first to back check. Of course he has limitations because of his size, but his low center of gravity and his strong legs allows him to still be solid on his skates. His hard work, dedication and conditioning are also major strenghts.

The Habs have 3 wins this season and he's at the origin of 2 of the 3 game winning goals at crucial time, his +/- is even against top opposition, but apparently, it's a sign of regression...

You never see this kind of debate occuring on other team's board. Players making 65 points on their 1st full NHL season have usually a large fanbase and bandwagon. It was the case here too after the first good season that players such as Plekanec, Kostitsyn, Ryder, Higgins, Komisarek, Emelin, Subban and others did. Fans get excited about their young talented player and it's normal.

But why is there an exception for Desharnais? The thing is : I've been here for long enough. I've seen this thing happen before on this same exact board. It happened for Latendresse, for Lapierre, for Ribeiro... The sudden bashing for a promising young player was (coincidence?), usually coming from the same exact posters who thought "Dandouillon" were not an NHL player, that Brisebois was the worst defenseman ever, that Tanguay, Darche or Bégin were useless (at the time they were legit contributors), etc.

I don't want to target everyone as racist, or course. But this lack of excitement for a few selected promising youngsters, all French Canadians, is troubling, to say the least. On any other team board, you would see nothing but over excitement for a guy like Desharnais, the same way you see it for any promising Habs youngster on French speaking forums. But hey, here we have a unique exception in the league. And I'm sorry to point it out because I know it hurts to see it, but this exception is language based. I know it's sad, but ignoring the problem won't make it disappear. And accepting that "Is DD a NHL caliber player" is a legit hockey debate that should be solved by useless hockey argument represents for me a victory for the racists, because the same debate would never occur for any other young star.
Let me ask you this. What are Desharnais' weaknesses?

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01-29-2013, 04:19 PM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Brilliant post

I wish I had the patience to write something as long and as well thought out as you do, but I don't lol
WaffleDave is systematically bashing Quebecers for about a decades. He never have any valid argument, it's blind hate.

And you sound just like him.

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01-29-2013, 07:32 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It only takes 60 seconds to look up.

Pacioretty scored 33 goals in 79 games last year playing easy minutes against a (weak) Corsi Rel Qoc = +0.068, yes.

He also scored 14 goals in 37 games the year before that (identical production within the margin of error), playing with Gomez and Gionta against substantially more difficult opposition, Corsi Rel Qoc = +0.482. That proves Pacioretty doesn't need easy minutes to produce at a high level.

You know what Desharnais' Corsi Rel QoC was in 2010-2011? -0.526. It was +0.007 in 2011-2012, also very weak. Compare that to legitimate 1st line centers around the NHL like Joe Thornton (+1.497) and Ryan Getzlaf (+0.843).
Fantastic. Again bringing up DD is not a 1st line center. What am I supposed to reply to this? Did I ever say he was? When did I compare him to Thornton or Getzlaf, why you showing me useless numbers?

Anyway, explain this for me. You show Max didn't get the type of competition a true 1st liner would get. You showed the numbers yourself, now again, why is a max a franchise player for the habs fanbase?

Also, when you play on road you don't get easy matchups correct? If you're a 1st line it is very hard to protect you. Now explain why Max's road production wasn't comparable to his Home production? However, DD made more points than max on the road. hmmmm. you know, those line match ups, that QCOM you talk about, this is it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Cole and Patch DID get easy minutes last year. The difference is they have the physical tools that most feel will translate to other situations. In Cole's case, he's done it before on other teams. In Max's case, he is a physical monster, though it is true he has yet to truly show he can dominate against elite opposition..
Hey, that's all I want. Fairness. No doubt those two possess a better physical package to translate into tougher minutes but what you said is all I asked for, a fair assessment. Only thing I'd say is Cole got a career high with those minutes so maybe in the usual tough minutes he's a high 20 goal guy rather than mid 30. I think that's a fair assumption no?



Quote:
Eller's been a healthy scratch for half the games this season and would have continued to be had it not been for Patch's injury. How is that getting a pass?.
By the fanbase actually. 3 Coaches didn't think he had top 6 talent but people cling onto it. Sorry, perezhogin has a better chance of cracking our top 6. Maybe bulis.

Quote:
Honestly, you can't really use the same criteria to judge Eller as you'd use to judge DD. Eller is, ideally, a 3rd line checking centre. I don't feel he will be any more than that. DD is currently the #1 centre, and his role is to produce points and be a threat at all times.

When Koivu was here, he was the primary point producing centre AND was always matched up against the other team's #1 line. And yet, he was considered by many as "not good enough" to be a #1 centre. DD isn't able to play against the other team's top lines because he's simply too small, it won't work.

It's actually kind of funny because for DD to succeed, a guy like Eller needs to be playing well and eating up the toughest minutes. Yet for some reason, they are pit against each other in this thread...It's typical Montreal HFBoards, you can never like everyone on this team, it's always so polarized. If you like one player, you automatically hate everyone else who plays that same position.
That's pretty much it. Most people know what they are. Eller isn't a top 6 center and DD isn't a #1.

Still, these guys are both assets to the team. People pit them against each other and I don't know why. Perhaps it looked like I was bashing Eller, nope. I'm just complaining about the bias. I'd gladly admit neither are a long term fixture on top 6. I just don't comprehend how I've seen countless posts on the habs forum saying "no space for DD with Eller needing to play top 6". *****? How about a guy in this thread saying DD is a 2nd line center in the AHL. Maybe he'd have an argument if DD didn't already play in AHL and kill it. It's ridiculous. Both are young players with many holes to their game and plotting them against each other isn't how they will succeed, they don't even play the same role!


BTW, DD was credited with an assist he should've had on Markov's GWG. 0.5ppg. Erik Cole is at 0.25PPG, Eller at 0PPG. DD has 2 points, other centers have 3. If we want any chance of being a contender we need all 3 to pick up their game but even me saying Eller 0PPG is done on purpose, it's ridiculous, he's barely played enough games to judge. Patience and support.

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Old
01-29-2013, 08:04 PM
  #150
Marc the Habs Fan
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Another horrific game by him so far.

And the PP scores while he's sitting...

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