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Old
01-29-2013, 01:21 AM
  #26
craigcaulks*
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The internet makes me feel bad to be a Canucks fan. Come on children, it's time to grow up.

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01-29-2013, 01:25 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
The internet makes me feel bad to be a Canucks fan. Come on children, it's time to grow up.
Seriously, thank you.

Jason Garrison is just as rusty as the rest of the Canuck defensemen, plus he is playing with new teammates, in a new system, and was injured for a chunk of the lockout so he couldn't skate. Let him play more than six games before we decide he is useless.

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01-29-2013, 01:26 AM
  #28
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I seriously don't understand canuck fans sometimes. Do you people (not you pg canuck) still consider the flyers, rangers, and predators to be three of the best teams in the nhl? Because the canucks have a better record than them right now. How about the penguins? Who only have one more win than the canucks. How about even the freaking LA Kings who admittedly won today but did so in a shootout? And have a slightly better record than the canucks. Many of the elite teams in the nhl have started the year slow. It does not mean that they all suck and that none of them will make the playoffs or compete for the cup. Jeeze people calm down.
They all have fantastic coaches. We do not.

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01-29-2013, 01:31 AM
  #29
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Just admit it, despite being older Salo is a better option than Garrison.
No. Salo post-injury last season was amazingly woeful. I love the dude, but he is too old, too injury prone, has too high a cap hit and too long a contract.

Garrison has not been good, but neither do I think he has been awful. I've noticed him easily out-muscle a couple of opposition forwards down low (which is highly unusual as a canucks fan I must say). Powerplay is not his fault, it is the system. Positioning wise he is no more rusty than Hamhuis or Bieksa, or possibly even Edler.

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01-29-2013, 01:35 AM
  #30
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No. Salo post-injury last season was amazingly woeful. I love the dude, but he is too old, too injury prone, has too high a cap hit and too long a contract.

Garrison has not been good, but neither do I think he has been awful. I've noticed him easily out-muscle a couple of opposition forwards down low (which is highly unusual as a canucks fan I must say). Powerplay is not his fault, it is the system. Positioning wise he is no more rusty than Hamhuis or Bieksa, or possibly even Edler.
The cap is 70.2M this season. Hell, we should've given him a 1 yr 3.5M contract. What else are we going to use the cap on? I'd take Salo over Vandermeer and Barker.

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01-29-2013, 01:36 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by CanadianPirate View Post
I seriously don't understand canuck fans sometimes. Do you people (not you pg canuck) still consider the flyers, rangers, and predators to be three of the best teams in the nhl? Because the canucks have a better record than them right now. How about the penguins? Who only have one more win than the canucks. How about even the freaking LA Kings who admittedly won today but did so in a shootout? And have a slightly better record than the canucks. Many of the elite teams in the nhl have started the year slow. It does not mean that they all suck and that none of them will make the playoffs or compete for the cup. Jeeze people calm down.
Agreed. Lots of the supposed powerhouses of the NHL are struggling, but the fact that we're struggling is no, and should be no surprise to anyone. Is it frustrating? For sure it is, but I guess we just have to accept the fact we suck to start the season(s) year after year, yet people always act as if we're a lottery team.

I can't stress enough how normal of a start this is for the Canucks.

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01-29-2013, 01:40 AM
  #32
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I don't think it's time to worry given that Hamhuis and Bieksa have been arguably worse. Lots of time still.

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01-29-2013, 01:43 AM
  #33
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I am not about to defend Garrison, especially as I have some buyer's remorse on him. Alas, our defense as a whole has been awful, Tanev and Ballard notwithstanding.

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01-29-2013, 01:46 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
Agreed. Lots of the supposed powerhouses of the NHL are struggling, but the fact that we're struggling is no, and should be no surprise to anyone. Is it frustrating? For sure it is, but I guess we just have to accept the fact we suck to start the season(s) year after year, yet people always act as if we're a lottery team.

I can't stress enough how normal of a start this is for the Canucks.
Exactly. It is annoying as all hell but it shouldn't be surprising. I think part of the freak out this time has been how much the media has been hyping the whole shortened season idea. The idea that if a team starts slow it will miss the playoffs. Almost every single media outlet is buying into this. I keep on hearing it. The thing is (and I have posted this probably three times) it is crap. Complete crap. The last shortened season the devils had 3 wins, 5 losses and 2 ties in their first ten games. They won the freaking cup. Starting slow even in a shortened season is not the end of the world. In fact I would rather the canucks start slow and end at the top of their game than what is going to happen to teams like the blackhawks and sharks when they begin to slow down near the end of the season. Teams can not play like those teams have through the whole season. It does not happen.

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01-29-2013, 01:52 AM
  #35
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Not making the playoffs isn't the reason this thread was made, it's about winning the cup... We're obviously going to make the playoffs, but I actually want to win...

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01-29-2013, 01:54 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Luuuongo View Post
The cap is 70.2M this season. Hell, we should've given him a 1 yr 3.5M contract. What else are we going to use the cap on? I'd take Salo over Vandermeer and Barker.
Pretty common conjecture that TERM was the issue for Salo.

I love Salo but would take Garrison. Younger, bigger, healthier.

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01-29-2013, 02:04 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Luuuongo View Post
Not making the playoffs isn't the reason this thread was made, it's about winning the cup... We're obviously going to make the playoffs, but I actually want to win...
Our defense, and forwards don't seem to want too (except Tanev/Ballard).

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01-29-2013, 02:10 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
Our defense, and forwards don't seem to want too (except Tanev/Ballard).
Well then, I guess it's time to, I don't know, change the atmosphere? Hire a new coach and implement a new system where the players can self motivate themselves and have belief?

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01-29-2013, 02:20 AM
  #39
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Forget the coach - this team needs some better fans.

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01-29-2013, 02:27 AM
  #40
PG Canuck
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Originally Posted by Luuuongo View Post
Well then, I guess it's time to, I don't know, change the atmosphere? Hire a new coach and implement a new system where the players can self motivate themselves and have belief?
It can be argued trying to implement a new system can be worse as we go down the stretch. Learning a new system etc. I posted about this in the AV thread.

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Forget the coach - this team needs some better fans.
Couldn't agree more.

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01-29-2013, 02:28 AM
  #41
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Forget the coach - this team needs some better fans.
Deep man... so deep.

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Old
01-29-2013, 02:31 AM
  #42
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Deep man... so deep.
We should have a diddy kong racing tournament to determine who are the best Canuck fans

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01-29-2013, 02:36 AM
  #43
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Please, if Boston won with their fans, we can win as well.

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01-29-2013, 03:20 AM
  #44
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canucks should just tank, trade luongo, trade the sedins, kesler, bieksa, hamhuis, garrison, edler, make Kassian captain.

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01-29-2013, 03:22 AM
  #45
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I think it's a lot too early to go into full on panic-spaz mode about Garrison. Just like the rest of our team outside a select few, he's rusty and on top of that, adjusting to a new system and completely new linemates.

I don't doubt that he will improve as he gets more comfortable. But i still think there's probably a lot of truth to the title of this thread, in the sense that he was falsely hyped up to be a lot more than he is by a lot of fans and media this past year.

I was wary of it all along, right up to the point where we signed him to a big, locked-in NTC deal with significant term attached...and beyond. To me, Garrison in Florida looked like another Hjalmarsson...with a booming shot as bonus. A guy who can look really good beside a super mobile offensive catalyst like Campbell. But not exactly the fluid skating defensive rock with an unstoppable pinpoint accurate howitzer of a shot that many seemed to view him as.

Not that he's a bad defender...but his skating is clunky, his shot is essentially as inaccurate as Edler, and while he isn't bad defensively, Campbell skated him out of an awful lot of problems last year.

He's a #4 d-man with some ups and some downs to his game. That's what he was, and that's probably what he'll become here once he finds his footing a bit better. But i think the biggest source of this 'false advertising' issue, is people buying too much into the 'advertising' in the first place.

Is he worth the contract we handed him? Hard to say at this point. It's pretty significant and it doesn't offer us much flexibility there...but quality NHL blueliners are in high demand these days. So i guess we'll see. Personally, i would've preferred to wait it out and find a guy i really liked to add to the roster, even if that meant more cap outlay or assets given up.

But the 'Hometown Express' hype-train was steaming along full force, and now we've got the guy on the books...for better or worse. So hopefully he at least gets up to speed and back to where he was last year in Florida.

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Old
01-29-2013, 03:32 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Luuuongo View Post
The cap is 70.2M this season. Hell, we should've given him a 1 yr 3.5M contract. What else are we going to use the cap on? I'd take Salo over Vandermeer and Barker.
Doubt that he'd sign for that given he got 2 years and 7.5 million from Tampa Bay.

As well, making any judgements about a player based on 6 games with a new team without any preseason activity is pretty shortsighted. He may not turn out as advertised, but you really can't tell anything off of a few games.

For example, based on the season so far, Marleau could probably be traded for both Crosby and Malkin.

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01-29-2013, 08:46 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
I think it's a lot too early to go into full on panic-spaz mode about Garrison. Just like the rest of our team outside a select few, he's rusty and on top of that, adjusting to a new system and completely new linemates.

I don't doubt that he will improve as he gets more comfortable. But i still think there's probably a lot of truth to the title of this thread, in the sense that he was falsely hyped up to be a lot more than he is by a lot of fans and media this past year.

I was wary of it all along, right up to the point where we signed him to a big, locked-in NTC deal with significant term attached...and beyond. To me, Garrison in Florida looked like another Hjalmarsson...with a booming shot as bonus. A guy who can look really good beside a super mobile offensive catalyst like Campbell. But not exactly the fluid skating defensive rock with an unstoppable pinpoint accurate howitzer of a shot that many seemed to view him as.

Not that he's a bad defender...but his skating is clunky, his shot is essentially as inaccurate as Edler, and while he isn't bad defensively, Campbell skated him out of an awful lot of problems last year.

He's a #4 d-man with some ups and some downs to his game. That's what he was, and that's probably what he'll become here once he finds his footing a bit better. But i think the biggest source of this 'false advertising' issue, is people buying too much into the 'advertising' in the first place.

Is he worth the contract we handed him? Hard to say at this point. It's pretty significant and it doesn't offer us much flexibility there...but quality NHL blueliners are in high demand these days. So i guess we'll see. Personally, i would've preferred to wait it out and find a guy i really liked to add to the roster, even if that meant more cap outlay or assets given up.

But the 'Hometown Express' hype-train was steaming along full force, and now we've got the guy on the books...for better or worse. So hopefully he at least gets up to speed and back to where he was last year in Florida.
Good points, however it should be noted that the year before, when Garrison was paired exclusively with Weaver, his defensive statistics were excellent, and he took the heaviest minutes of any Florida defenceman.

Frankly I don't care if he replicates his offensive peak, as long as he can regain his defensive prowess.

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01-29-2013, 08:49 AM
  #48
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Well, on the bright side, we now know who the over-reactionists are on this forum.

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01-29-2013, 08:53 AM
  #49
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Why don't we wait for the rest of our team to stop sucking before we start roasting our newest member, how can we expect him to be a stabilizing force when the rest of the team isn't doing their job? Wait for things to gel, and if he doesn't gel with it, then go ahead. Hamhuis hasn't been good at all either, go jump on him.

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01-29-2013, 08:59 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
I think it's a lot too early to go into full on panic-spaz mode about Garrison. Just like the rest of our team outside a select few, he's rusty and on top of that, adjusting to a new system and completely new linemates.

I don't doubt that he will improve as he gets more comfortable. But i still think there's probably a lot of truth to the title of this thread, in the sense that he was falsely hyped up to be a lot more than he is by a lot of fans and media this past year.

I was wary of it all along, right up to the point where we signed him to a big, locked-in NTC deal with significant term attached...and beyond. To me, Garrison in Florida looked like another Hjalmarsson...with a booming shot as bonus. A guy who can look really good beside a super mobile offensive catalyst like Campbell. But not exactly the fluid skating defensive rock with an unstoppable pinpoint accurate howitzer of a shot that many seemed to view him as.

Not that he's a bad defender...but his skating is clunky, his shot is essentially as inaccurate as Edler, and while he isn't bad defensively, Campbell skated him out of an awful lot of problems last year.

He's a #4 d-man with some ups and some downs to his game. That's what he was, and that's probably what he'll become here once he finds his footing a bit better. But i think the biggest source of this 'false advertising' issue, is people buying too much into the 'advertising' in the first place.

Is he worth the contract we handed him? Hard to say at this point. It's pretty significant and it doesn't offer us much flexibility there...but quality NHL blueliners are in high demand these days. So i guess we'll see. Personally, i would've preferred to wait it out and find a guy i really liked to add to the roster, even if that meant more cap outlay or assets given up.

But the 'Hometown Express' hype-train was steaming along full force, and now we've got the guy on the books...for better or worse. So hopefully he at least gets up to speed and back to where he was last year in Florida.
I disagree with this. While your insinuations may be calm in nature, you are essentially agreeing with what everyone else is saying. It's far too early to call him a #4 defenseman, and if you ask me he is already playing like a #4 defenseman. Yet, so is Hamhuis and Bieksa, with Edler just a step ahead. The difference with those guys is we know they have more to give, where as Garrison is an unknown. So again, lets wait and see. I expect Garrison to be a guy that can carry the 2nd pairing, and is therefore a #3 defenseman. He was very good when he played with Weaver too, so lets give him a longer audition before we turn on him.

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