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Is Alain Vigneault the worst coach in the NHL right now?

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Old
01-29-2013, 05:54 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
The Kings showed that there are teams built to win in the playoffs, and teams built to win meaningless regular season games.

Guess which side the Canucks fall under.
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
we are just one game away from winning the cup despite having AV as our coach in 2011, i think the canucks is capable of winning in the playoffs as well, they just need better coaching.
Every time you quote me and reply I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or not.

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01-29-2013, 05:55 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Dudeinator View Post
Self-fulfilling, circular, paradoxical. This is how you think.
What did I say a page back....

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01-29-2013, 05:57 AM
  #203
Vancouver_2010
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Originally Posted by Dudeinator View Post
We won those series. 4 games, 5, 6, 7. We won. But no, because according to you, there even has to be conditions to how gracefully we win our games. So that even if we DO win them, AV is still at fault. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

So when AV doing something right, it's because it's a simple decision that everyone would make. But if he does something wrong, that's because he's not a good enough coach to adapt.

Self-fulfilling, circular, paradoxical. This is how you think.
That is because we should win those series, are you going to credit yourself for successfully brushing your teeth today?

Okay, so Kesler managed to play well in the series and he failed to motivate the Sedins to play better, that's great coaching out there. Remember the predators limitation due to lack of offense, our team is better than theirs in almost every way.


Last edited by Vancouver_2010: 01-29-2013 at 06:03 AM.
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01-29-2013, 06:00 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
Every time you quote me and reply I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or not.
I guess I disagree with you, Gillis has been a great GM for the Canucks so far. Why do you think the Canucks were build to win meaningless games when they are just one game short of winning the cup in 2011, despite having AV as our coach?

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01-29-2013, 06:03 AM
  #205
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yea, probably

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01-29-2013, 06:05 AM
  #206
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yea, probably
worse than Oates?

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01-29-2013, 06:05 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
I guess I disagree with you, Gillis has been a great GM for the Canucks so far. Why do you think the Canucks were build to win meaningless games when they are just one game short of winning the cup in 2011, despite having AV as our coach?
Oilers
Wild
Flames
Avs

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01-29-2013, 06:06 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
That is because we should win those series, are you going to credit yourself for successfully brushing your teeth today?

Okay, so Kesler managed to play well in the series and he failed to motivate the Sedins to play better, that's great coaching out there. Remember the predators were not that great of a team due to lack of offense, our team is better than theirs in almost every way.
We win = no credit to coach because we should win.
We lose = all blame on coach because we should win

In your framework, there is no possible way that Coach AV can be fairly judged. You've created an argument structure that is self-fulfilling, and therefore any argument against it can be instantly warped back to this simple principle.

There's no point in discussing this with you any further. Congratulations, you've won through logical fallacy.

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01-29-2013, 06:06 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
Oilers
Wild
Flames
Avs
I understand what you meant there, but what does that has to do with one game short of winning the stanley cup in 2011, despite having AV as our coach?

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01-29-2013, 06:10 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Dudeinator View Post
We win = no credit to coach because we should win.
We lose = all blame on coach because we should win

In your framework, there is no possible way that Coach AV can be fairly judged. You've created an argument structure that is self-fulfilling, and therefore any argument against it can be instantly warped back to this simple principle.

There's no point in discussing this with you any further. Congratulations, you've won through logical fallacy.
Actually AV is not the only person to be blamed obviously, the Sedins were half responsible for our failures.

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01-29-2013, 06:14 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
I understand what you meant there, but what does that has to do with one game short of winning the stanley cup in 2011, despite having AV as our coach?
I was referring to the multiple (and meaningless) President's Trophies.

Canucks fans can pat themselves on the back, but the reality is that they beat up on a weak division and got a reality check in the playoffs.

Yes they went to the SCF. I acknowledge that. I still don;t think they are built to win a Cup.

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01-29-2013, 06:17 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
I was referring to the multiple (and meaningless) President's Trophies.

Canucks fans can pat themselves on the back, but the reality is that they beat up on a weak division and got a reality check in the playoffs.

Yes they went to the SCF. I acknowledge that. I still don;t think they are built to win a Cup.
I see what you mean now. I agree that winning the president trophy is meaningless, perhaps a coaching change would inspire the team to play better, not only its the most effective way to improve the team, its also the easiest approach.

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01-29-2013, 06:21 AM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
I was referring to the multiple (and meaningless) President's Trophies.

Canucks fans can pat themselves on the back, but the reality is that they beat up on a weak division and got a reality check in the playoffs.

Yes they went to the SCF. I acknowledge that. I still don;t think they are built to win a Cup.
Yes they did indeed go to the SCF. And to game 7. Kinda defeats your point.

If they werent infact built for the playoffs they wouldnt have made it to the SCF much less the last possible game.

Plus theyve lost to the eventual winner 3 years running.

What does that make all the other non-cup winning teams?

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01-29-2013, 06:24 AM
  #214
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Oh Canuck fans...when will we ever learn?

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01-29-2013, 07:23 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by moolah3i4 View Post
How about the top 3 worst coaches this year, Sacco, Oates, Vigneault!
This conversation begins and ends with Jack Capuano.

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01-29-2013, 08:06 AM
  #216
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OP Forgot Adam Oates is coaching still tho.....

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01-29-2013, 08:16 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
He's clueless most of the time and still have a job because of the Sedins, Schneider and Luongo.
I don't know if he's the worst but I do agree he owes his job and a certain coaching trophy he won to the people you mentioned.

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01-29-2013, 08:21 AM
  #218
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But only a little over a year ago I thought he was one of the best? Nucks fans were loving him I thought? Things sure change fast.

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01-29-2013, 08:21 AM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudeinator View Post
6 years with the Canucks. So...
- 5 years in the playoffs
- 3 years 1st in the division
- 2 years President's Trophy
- 1 year Stanley Cup Finals

And as of right now, 13th in the league, 6th in the conference.

Vigneault has brought the team its most successful string of seasons, and he's the worst coach because he's lost 2 of the first 6 this season?

Vigneault has always been criticized pretty much after every year the Canucks don't win the cup. I bet more than a few teams would be interested in someone of his resume if he gets canned.

Vancouver's a toxic environment, and I believe I'm only half-exaggerating when I say that.



THIS!

All the nonsense spewed in this thread has been complete embarrassment for Canucks fans.

He's a really good coach. For every Rome, Grabner, Shirokov story, there's two successes that have emerged under AV.

Hey OP - ---- You unhappy about Grabner (and somehow blame AV)... How's he done with the Sedins? If AV is God of player development, then what about Kesler's Selke? How's Tanev coming along ?

If you're going to make him take the credit for the lack of development of players, you must give him the credit the other way as well.

AV is doing his thing and doing it well.

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01-29-2013, 08:25 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Canuckaholic19 View Post
Breathe... The team is .500 without Kesler or Booth. And we are 6 games into the season.
The funny thing is that you are so convinced that this is a reaction to the Canucks decent start...the reality is, a lot of people who cheer for the Canucks have wanted AV fired for 3 years.

That includes myself. I hate the way other teams seem to make better adjustments that we do during the playoffs - I couldn't care less about his performance during the regular season.

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01-29-2013, 08:25 AM
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
I was referring to the multiple (and meaningless) President's Trophies.

Canucks fans can pat themselves on the back, but the reality is that they beat up on a weak division and got a reality check in the playoffs.

Yes they went to the SCF. I acknowledge that. I still don;t think they are built to win a Cup.
"meaningless" president's trophies ??

Cool story that you acknowledge a fact... like.. one that's completely undeniable.

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01-29-2013, 08:27 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Vancouver turns on AV ritually every year.

I actually think he's a great coach.
This. Back-to-back President Trophies and fans still haul on him. I'll gladly take him on the Rangers.

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01-29-2013, 08:31 AM
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
I was referring to the multiple (and meaningless) President's Trophies.

Canucks fans can pat themselves on the back, but the reality is that they beat up on a weak division and got a reality check in the playoffs.

Yes they went to the SCF. I acknowledge that. I still don;t think they are built to win a Cup.
Misconception among canucks fans that we pat ourselves on the back for winning a president trophy.

Last year when we won it again, none of us celebrated. We know what the main prize is.

And after we found out we played l.a. first round instead of the sharks, some of us were even not happy we won it.

Also that weak division is not going to last with the new oilers up-rising, and suter and parise on the wild. The avs were also lights out last year against competition outside our division, yet we eliminated them ourselves from playoffs going 6-0 against them in very hard fought games, but everyone simply seen them as another weak team we beat up on.


Last edited by Orca Smash: 01-29-2013 at 08:37 AM.
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01-29-2013, 08:35 AM
  #224
Lonny Bohonos
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Originally Posted by LetsBeReality View Post
THIS!

All the nonsense spewed in this thread has been complete embarrassment for Canucks fans.

He's a really good coach. For every Rome, Grabner, Shirokov story, there's two successes that have emerged under AV.

Hey OP - ---- You unhappy about Grabner (and somehow blame AV)... How's he done with the Sedins? If AV is God of player development, then what about Kesler's Selke? How's Tanev coming along ?

If you're going to make him take the credit for the lack of development of players, you must give him the credit the other way as well.

AV is doing his thing and doing it well.
Rome was a solid 7th dman for us who had to fill in for injuries and Ballard.

Grabner was traded because of waiver issues. Wasnt solid enough to stay up.

Shirokov is playing in the KHL for a reason.

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01-29-2013, 08:38 AM
  #225
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Time to the annual "Fire Vigneault" thread.

If the Canucks fired Vigneault, he'd get another job immediately. The guy is one of the better coaches in the NHL.

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