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C Mikhail Grigorenko - Quebec Remparts, QMJHL (2012 draft) III

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Old
01-21-2013, 01:03 PM
  #851
Fantomas
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Grigorenko is better.

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01-21-2013, 01:09 PM
  #852
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This reminds me of Tarasenko at 16th, Kuznetsov at 26?? Skillwise, those guys have no business being out of top 10 for any draft year.

But this brings me to the point that NHL Draft is very far away from determing hockey ability on its own. Outside of top 5 the Draft becomes a "what is best for my team" instead of go for the best type a deal.

I've said it before the draft and now again, Grigorenko does not rely on speed and explosiveness and plays a much smarter game which could work well long term, especially in the 30's when Yakupov will no longer be able to use his speed.

Grigorenko is the Jagr, Lemiuex, Malkin, Datsyuk side of the spectrum vs Yakupov being on the Bure, Afinogenov, Kessel, Ovechkin side who rely Mostly on physically beating opponents with speed and skill. 2 completely opposite sides of forward spectrum.

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01-21-2013, 01:11 PM
  #853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouter View Post
Obviously they are good players, the argument is comparing the #1 pick with the rest of the draft, and the fact is that most of the time the #1 pick is the best player in the draft.
I would say that is actually pretty common for a player other than the top drafted player to end up being the best. Stefan? Dipietro? Fleury? Ovechkin? Johnson? Hall? Yakupov?

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01-21-2013, 02:09 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Sadly you're wrong. Which is why I listed Giroux (#22) vs Erik Johnson (#1).

Since 1990:

Owen Nolan vs Jaromir Jagr/Martin Brodeur (wrong* probably only cause of injuries)
Eric Lindros vs Scott Niedermayer/Peter Forsberg (right)
Roman Hamrlik vs Alexei Yashin/Sergei Gonachar (wrong)
Alexandre Daigle vs Chris Pronger/Paul Kariya/Sauku Koivu (wrong)
Ed Jovanovski vs Mattias Ohlund/Daniel Alfredsson (right)
Bryan Berard vs Shane Doan/Jarome Iginla (wrong)
Chris Phillips vs Danny Briere (wrong)
Joe Thornton vs Roberto Luongo/Marian Hossa (right)
Vincent Lecavalier vs Pavel Datsyuk (right or wrong, it's up to you)
Patrik Stefan vs Sedins/Havlat (wrong)
DiPietro vs Heatley/Gaborik/Hartnell (wrong)
Kovalchuk vs Spezza/Hemsky (right)
Nash vs Semin/Ward/Keith (right)
Fleury vs Staal/Parise/Perry/Weber (right)
Ovechkin vs Malkin (right)
Crosby vs Kopitar (right)
Johnson vs Giroux (wrong)
Kane vs Couture (right)
Stamkos vs Karlsson/Eberle (right)
Tavares vs Duchene (right)
Hall vs Seguin/Skinner (jury's still out)

Too early to tell for 2010, 2011 or 2012. So we're looking at 12 cases where #1 was better vs 8 where he wasn't.
Fixed.


Last edited by Scouter: 01-21-2013 at 03:01 PM.
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Old
01-29-2013, 10:13 AM
  #855
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TSN:

"Forward Mikhail Grigorenko is staying up with the Buffalo Sabres.
The team sent out a tweet on Tuesday saying, "GM Darcy Regier says Mikhail Grigorenko will remain with the team and play tonight vs leafs."



http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=414726

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01-29-2013, 10:21 AM
  #856
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I think this is the right and wrong decision. Grigorenko hasn't looked particularly up to speed in the NHL so far, but there is no real point in sending him back to juniors. If he could go to the AHL then that'd be best for him. As it is, probably the best decision to give him some NHL experience.

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01-29-2013, 10:29 AM
  #857
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I think this is the right and wrong decision. Grigorenko hasn't looked particularly up to speed in the NHL so far, but there is no real point in sending him back to juniors. If he could go to the AHL then that'd be best for him. As it is, probably the best decision to give him some NHL experience.
He played well against Washington. He's gotten better game to game, I agree at first he didn't look like he belonged at all but he's gotten much more comfortable and has started to generate opportunities. Hopefully he gets his first point tonight.

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01-29-2013, 10:40 AM
  #858
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Is he going to get more ice time and better linemates now?

PS. Roy must not be happy.

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01-29-2013, 10:51 AM
  #859
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Is he going to get more ice time and better linemates now?

PS. Roy must not be happy.
CHL is a developmental league, he will be very pleased that a player he developed made an NHL roster at 18 years old.

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01-29-2013, 10:51 AM
  #860
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This was the right decision no question in my mind. Very suprised with how good his defensive game is.

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01-29-2013, 10:54 AM
  #861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
I think this is the right and wrong decision. Grigorenko hasn't looked particularly up to speed in the NHL so far, but there is no real point in sending him back to juniors. If he could go to the AHL then that'd be best for him. As it is, probably the best decision to give him some NHL experience.
Not to compare the two at all, but this situation sounds the same as Gulliaume Latendresse, the year he made the team. Wasn't up to NHL speed and calibre at the time, but Juniors was no longer an option either. Hope it pans out for Grigorenko.

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01-29-2013, 10:56 AM
  #862
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So if there was a redraft, where would Grigorenko go.

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01-29-2013, 11:00 AM
  #863
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So if there was a redraft, where would Grigorenko go.
#12th

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01-29-2013, 11:01 AM
  #864
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So if there was a redraft, where would Grigorenko go.
Its kind of difficult to answer that considering most scouts don't draft based on who they think will reach the NHl first, but more on who will be the best player in the future. A lot of d-men were selected before Grigorenko, and those generally take more time to develop. Grigs was the 4th forward taken, and I would still take Yakupov and Galchenyuk before him...there could be an argument made for Forsberg, but i'm sure he'll be good as well. Tampa and Pittsburgh suprised me with their picks, but who knows.

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01-29-2013, 12:08 PM
  #865
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I'm really surprised about this. I didn't think Buffalo would keep him.

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01-29-2013, 01:34 PM
  #866
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Quote:
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So if there was a redraft, where would Grigorenko go.
12th overall in the 2010 draft

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01-29-2013, 01:39 PM
  #867
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
CHL is a developmental league, he will be very pleased that a player he developed made an NHL roster at 18 years old.
I think the issue for Roy, is he moved a highly touted import to keep Grigs, hoping he'd be back for a full year.

Probably a case of being happy for the player, but dissapointed to lose their best player for the rest of the season.
Quote:
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#12th
I'd have taken him 5th at the draft, and I'd still take him 4th or 5th today....coin toss between he and Rielly for me.

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01-29-2013, 02:08 PM
  #868
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
CHL is a developmental league, he will be very pleased that a player he developed made an NHL roster at 18 years old.
Well when Buffalo said they'd leave him in the Q if the lockout ended which lead to the Kucherov trade. He's not going to be that happy.

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01-29-2013, 02:10 PM
  #869
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I'm really surprised about this. I didn't think Buffalo would keep him.
Buffalo doesn't often keep players that are that young, but it seems to be a growing trend in the league. Plus, our center depth is still pretty terrible, and he's played well enough to hold down a roster spot. He's been a surprise to most with his defensive effort/awareness (not that he's gonna win Selkes, but people, I guess, expect any Russian who's name isn't Datsyuk to not even try), and he's made some really beautiful passes. He's also had some gaffs and taken shifts that were way too long, but he's a smart player and should be able to progress well playing in the NHL. There will probably be nights where he looks like a 1st liner and nights where he doesn't look like he belongs on the ice, but that's gonna be the case with almost any teenager jumping from juniors to the NHL. I'm very excited to watch him this year.

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01-29-2013, 02:16 PM
  #870
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Wow burning a year in a shortened season? He's hasn't looked as good as Gally or Yak in my limited viewings of him this yr. Hope the Sabres know what they're doing.

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01-29-2013, 02:18 PM
  #871
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Fixed.
For the worse I see

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01-29-2013, 02:40 PM
  #872
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Originally Posted by shello View Post
Well when Buffalo said they'd leave him in the Q if the lockout ended which lead to the Kucherov trade. He's not going to be that happy.
I understand Rampart fans being upset that they are losing a talent young player, but why does this keep getting repeated? Regier himself said that no such promise was ever made or implied.

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01-29-2013, 02:44 PM
  #873
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I understand Rampart fans being upset that they are losing a talent young player, but why does this keep getting repeated? Regier himself said that no such promise was ever made or implied.
I didn't even know about Regier saying it didn't happen.

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01-29-2013, 02:48 PM
  #874
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I didn't even know about Regier saying it didn't happen.
Cant find a video clip, but I watched / heard it from him with my own eyes / ears. He was asked directly about the rumor of the promise to Roy, and he flatly stated it was simply not true.

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01-29-2013, 04:04 PM
  #875
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Not to compare the two at all, but this situation sounds the same as Gulliaume Latendresse, the year he made the team. Wasn't up to NHL speed and calibre at the time, but Juniors was no longer an option either. Hope it pans out for Grigorenko.
Similar situations with Connolly and Niederreiter. It's why I'd like to see a revamp of the NHL-CHL agreement, but I don't know how that'd happen.

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