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01-29-2013, 11:16 AM
  #26
Daley Tarasenkshow
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Originally Posted by moolah3i4 View Post
Langs is getting up there in age, so he's not as effective as he was couple years ago. Now, Reaves is a different story, he excites the game with big hits, and his fights. But lately he hasent fought but thats due to us winning.
If he is not going to fight cause we are winning than he might not fight the rest of the season

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01-29-2013, 11:42 AM
  #27
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Reaves needs to play. He's an effective tough, physical, decently skilled then he gets credit for 4th liner. If my avatar doesn't show that enough i don't know what would.

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01-29-2013, 12:47 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by STLBLUES44 View Post
Reaves needs to play. He's an effective tough, physical, decently skilled then he gets credit for 4th liner. If my avatar doesn't show that enough i don't know what would.
Uh, actual play? Reaves' impact is just ridiculously overstated by Blues fans. Your enforcer who plays 7 minutes a game when he dresses, does not have that big of an impact on the game. Reaves is a nice player to have but it won't make a huge difference whether it's him or Langenbrunner. An avatar of the Hulk with a Blue note on it doesn't change that.

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01-29-2013, 03:03 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Thallis View Post
Uh, actual play? Reaves' impact is just ridiculously overstated by Blues fans. Your enforcer who plays 7 minutes a game when he dresses, does not have that big of an impact on the game. Reaves is a nice player to have but it won't make a huge difference whether it's him or Langenbrunner. An avatar of the Hulk with a Blue note on it doesn't change that.

I beg to differ. Reaves is better than Langenbrunner in every aspect of the game right now except for passing and experience. Langenbrunner is slow, he doesn't have a good shot anymore, and can't really throw out a hit.

Reaves brings all of that and things that Langs lacks these days. Saying that your 4th line doesn't have much of an impact in the game is just incorrect. I would say Reaves-Nichol-Sobotka is one of the best 4th lines in the NHL. They can eat up almost 10min per game to allow our other 3 lines for much needed rest, they can wear down their opponent with their high energy/high physical play, and sometimes even creat some scoring chances.

Reaves also brings big hits and fights with most of the time him not taking stupid penalties. I would like to see Reaves penalty minutes over a season where fights/instigators aren't shown. Reaves doesn't really get that mad or frustrated and take dumb charging penalties. He plays an effective physical game and I couldn't ask for more from him.

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01-29-2013, 04:10 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
I would like to see Reaves penalty minutes over a season where fights/instigators aren't shown. Reaves doesn't really get that mad or frustrated and take dumb charging penalties.
Some stats to digest
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...Name=penalties

Last year he had 12 minor penalties in 60 games played 391:51 minutes of ice time.
That is 1 minor penalty per 32.6 min of ice time, or every 5 games.

In contrast...
David Backes (the team leader in minor penalties) had 38 minor penalties in 82 games played 1,639:50 minutes of ice time.
That is 1 minor penalty per 43.15 min of ice time, or every 2.16 games.

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01-29-2013, 05:08 PM
  #31
Daley Tarasenkshow
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Originally Posted by Thallis View Post
Uh, actual play? Reaves' impact is just ridiculously overstated by Blues fans. Your enforcer who plays 7 minutes a game when he dresses, does not have that big of an impact on the game. Reaves is a nice player to have but it won't make a huge difference whether it's him or Langenbrunner. An avatar of the Hulk with a Blue note on it doesn't change that.
Clearly you have not seen any Blues games this season.

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01-29-2013, 06:15 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Thallis View Post
Uh, actual play? Reaves' impact is just ridiculously overstated by Blues fans. Your enforcer who plays 7 minutes a game when he dresses, does not have that big of an impact on the game. Reaves is a nice player to have but it won't make a huge difference whether it's him or Langenbrunner. An avatar of the Hulk with a Blue note on it doesn't change that.
You clearly don't know what your talking about. Reaves scares the **** out of defensemen and actually establishes alot of offense. He tires out dman and when needed he beats the crap out of whoever he fights... Yeah i think it makes a difference if he or langenbrunner plays. Watch the next three games and then tell me if ur opinion changes.

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01-30-2013, 11:35 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
I beg to differ. Reaves is better than Langenbrunner in every aspect of the game right now except for passing and experience. Langenbrunner is slow, he doesn't have a good shot anymore, and can't really throw out a hit.

Reaves brings all of that and things that Langs lacks these days. Saying that your 4th line doesn't have much of an impact in the game is just incorrect. I would say Reaves-Nichol-Sobotka is one of the best 4th lines in the NHL. They can eat up almost 10min per game to allow our other 3 lines for much needed rest, they can wear down their opponent with their high energy/high physical play, and sometimes even creat some scoring chances.

Reaves also brings big hits and fights with most of the time him not taking stupid penalties. I would like to see Reaves penalty minutes over a season where fights/instigators aren't shown. Reaves doesn't really get that mad or frustrated and take dumb charging penalties. He plays an effective physical game and I couldn't ask for more from him.
This is wrong. Langenbrunner is slower than he was, but he still has superior instinct, skills, and positioning than Reaves, which is why he gets more ice time when he plays. The 4th line is good, but it's good with either of them.

We have yet to get a meaningful sample size between the two, and remember that correlation does not imply causation. The 4th line is meant to be defensively sound to give a break to the other three, and their minutes reflect that. Both of these guys know how to cycle the puck and keep it in the offensive zone. Reaves brings a different game than Langenbrunner for sure, but in today's NHL enforcers aren't as important as they once were and we have other guys who can fight if need be. I am in no way saying that Langenbrunner should get every start, but it's nonsense that without Reaves we're missing some magic part of the lineup. It's even more nonsense when people say the decision to not play Reaves had an impact in the LA series.

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01-30-2013, 01:23 PM
  #34
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The Blues fourth line with Sobotka/Nichol/Reaves cycles the puck so well and keeps the opposition in their end so consistently, it's hard to justify taking one of them out. I'm sure they will play most of the time with breaks for rest and injury.

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01-30-2013, 04:02 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thallis View Post
This is wrong. Langenbrunner is slower than he was, but he still has superior instinct, skills, and positioning than Reaves, which is why he gets more ice time when he plays. The 4th line is good, but it's good with either of them.

We have yet to get a meaningful sample size between the two, and remember that correlation does not imply causation. The 4th line is meant to be defensively sound to give a break to the other three, and their minutes reflect that. Both of these guys know how to cycle the puck and keep it in the offensive zone. Reaves brings a different game than Langenbrunner for sure, but in today's NHL enforcers aren't as important as they once were and we have other guys who can fight if need be. I am in no way saying that Langenbrunner should get every start, but it's nonsense that without Reaves we're missing some magic part of the lineup. It's even more nonsense when people say the decision to not play Reaves had an impact in the LA series.
Reaves is not an enforcer. Everyone should be getting that through their head. An enforcer is only a fighter, while Reaves is a grinder, as he can do much more. janssen was an enforcer. Winchester and Crombeen were grinders. Big difference.

The only reason Langs has gotten more ice time than Reaves is because either Reaves has been in the box, or in the few game langs has played, he has played a lot because the team has dominated.

Reaves is the superior player right now. Reaves will play the rest of the season and develop into a 82 game player, the only reason Langs is here is for his leadership. To say that he has better instincts and positioning than Reaves is bogus. The only things langs is better on is shooting, passing, dekeing, and leading.

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01-30-2013, 06:46 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by reavesthemaniac View Post
Reaves is not an enforcer. Everyone should be getting that through their head. An enforcer is only a fighter, while Reaves is a grinder, as he can do much more. janssen was an enforcer. Winchester and Crombeen were grinders. Big difference.

The only reason Langs has gotten more ice time than Reaves is because either Reaves has been in the box, or in the few game langs has played, he has played a lot because the team has dominated.

Reaves is the superior player right now. Reaves will play the rest of the season and develop into a 82 game player, the only reason Langs is here is for his leadership. To say that he has better instincts and positioning than Reaves is bogus. The only things langs is better on is shooting, passing, dekeing, and leading.
idk. reaves showed he had some soft hands in the detroit and nashville home games. lol... but seriously he did

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01-31-2013, 01:51 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Thallis View Post
This is wrong. Langenbrunner is slower than he was, but he still has superior instinct, skills, and positioning than Reaves, which is why he gets more ice time when he plays. The 4th line is good, but it's good with either of them.

We have yet to get a meaningful sample size between the two, and remember that correlation does not imply causation. The 4th line is meant to be defensively sound to give a break to the other three, and their minutes reflect that. Both of these guys know how to cycle the puck and keep it in the offensive zone. Reaves brings a different game than Langenbrunner for sure, but in today's NHL enforcers aren't as important as they once were and we have other guys who can fight if need be. I am in no way saying that Langenbrunner should get every start, but it's nonsense that without Reaves we're missing some magic part of the lineup. It's even more nonsense when people say the decision to not play Reaves had an impact in the LA series.

He may have superior instinct skills but he can't put them to good use because of age and the line he plays on isn't meant to score. I wouldn't say his positioning is any better than Reaves' is either.

Reaves isn't an enforcer, he fights when he has to but he also has hard work ethic and decent hockey skills, as the poster above me said, I would label him as a grinder.

No one is saying Reaves is a magic part of the lineup but he definitely is a better choice than Langs. We don't need our 4th line to set up plays or hope to score anymore. Our 4th lines wears down the opponents, thats how we win our game. We have 4 effective lines that can wear down the opponent and can split up ice-time fairly easily. I'm sorry but Langenbrunner just isn't fast or physical enough for this team.

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01-31-2013, 02:12 PM
  #38
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Reaves should play whenever possible.

I will be very disappointed if he sits out a playoff game.

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01-31-2013, 02:21 PM
  #39
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He better play tonight. Columbus has dorsett and Boll in their lineup.

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01-31-2013, 02:28 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by STLBLUES44 View Post
He better play tonight. Columbus has dorsett and Boll in their lineup.
absolutely! I would like to see a Jackman Dorsett bout or Dorsett Polak bout maybe Cole give it a whirl with him or Sobotka. He isn't a very big guy. Could be an interesting game.... Boll and Reaves...main event!!

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01-31-2013, 02:32 PM
  #41
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absolutely! I would like to see a Jackman Dorsett bout or Dorsett Polak bout maybe Cole give it a whirl with him or Sobotka. He isn't a very big guy. Could be an interesting game.... Boll and Reaves...main event!!
Haha. YES. I'm hopin jackman and dorsett go, Boll and reaves and maybe sobotka and mckenzie? I'd love to see Sobotka just MMA tackle someone again lol. nobody knows he can fight but apparently he does mma during the offseason. I know Dominic Moore learned that the hard way in the playoffs last year.

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02-06-2013, 11:58 PM
  #42
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Reaves

I know this was brought up once, but now with a bit of a bigger sample size...

Record with Reaves in the lineup: 6-1 (only loss was bs detroit loss)

Not in line-up: 0-2

IMO he just makes this team tougher on the ice. Maybe he is a really vocal energy guy that just gets everyone around him pumped up idk. But its no secret, this team is better with him out there for sure.

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02-07-2013, 12:09 AM
  #43
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The effect of Ryan Reaves on the lineup is relatively trivial, to be quite honest. Should he be in there over Langenbrunner or D'Agostini? I'd play him over those guys on the 4th line, sure. But come on, he's physical and ok as a hockey player but he's also not some difference-maker. "Ryan Reaves Intangibles" are not what's at issue with this team right now.

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02-07-2013, 09:20 AM
  #44
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The fourth line had a decidedly different look last night, but it wasn't any less effective than the other variation. It was effective at pushing the play forward and it generally executed well, generating more pressure and chances than it gave up.

This issue with how the team played last night has pretty much nothing to do with whether or not Reaves was in the lineup.

I disagree with your assumption that Reaves would not make a difference in how the team played. Would playing Reaves make the difference for a Blues win against the Preds? NO, but the Blues lacked any physical play for the first period and a half and gave the Preds way too much space. Reaves finishes checks, works the boards, and makes the other team look over their shoulder knowing they are going to get hit. Plus he can be a spark, you think Reaves wouldn't have found Clune for a fight when the Blues were down 3-0? Don't underestimate how much inspired play can affect the team.

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02-07-2013, 02:40 PM
  #45
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I disagree with your assumption that Reaves would not make a difference in how the team played. Would playing Reaves make the difference for a Blues win against the Preds? NO, but the Blues lacked any physical play for the first period and a half and gave the Preds way too much space. Reaves finishes checks, works the boards, and makes the other team look over their shoulder knowing they are going to get hit. Plus he can be a spark, you think Reaves wouldn't have found Clune for a fight when the Blues were down 3-0? Don't underestimate how much inspired play can affect the team.
Agreed.

Nobody is saying the Blues would have beat the Preds or would be 9-0 right now if Reaves played in every game. But, anyone who watches the games, it should be absolutely clear that the 4th-line is MUCH more effective with Reaves on it than Langenbrunner or D'Agostini. It's just a fact. He's a good player for his role, that's all we're saying, and therefore you should put the best lineup on the ice - and that includes him in it. So the people overreacting need to calm down.

Looks like Hitch finally realizes this:

Quote:
"We need the game on a consistent basis, which is a north-south game, not east-west," Hitchcock said. "When he plays north-south, he's a very difficult player to play against. That's the game we're looking for on a consistent basis. When he plays like that, he's a tough guy to have to compete against. When he's got that mindset.

"I think it's a little bit our fault, too, because we've been screwing around trying to get people into the lineup and make them part of the team. The lineup, if you look at it tonight, this is the same lineup that we had the first couple games and we stayed with it and we played very well and then we started moving around that fourth line to try and get people involved. I'm not sure it helped. It kept people involved, but I'm not sure it helped long-term, so we've experimented enough and we'll just settle in. If you're playing well, you play, and if you don't, then you have to sit out. Revo's got to be consistent in his performance of playing north-south. He does it, and then gets away from it at times. I'm hoping the last game is an eye-opener. Now he's got to get back on track."
http://lkorac10.blogspot.com/2013/02...ay-lineup.html

That just sums it up. He's an effective 4th-liner. Is he the reason we win games? No. But he gives the team a lot of energy and it's clear he is effective.

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02-07-2013, 02:43 PM
  #46
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Hitchcock pretty much said the top 12 includes Reaves. 13/14 are Langenbrunner/D'Agostini, and that's what Hitchcock is telling reporters. The caveat is Reaves has to be more consistent himself. Reaves has the spot to lose as of now.

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02-07-2013, 02:57 PM
  #47
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He makes a bigger impact than people realize. dude just wears down opposing teams defensemen. hitting, cycling and just being a bully below the goalline. He's gotta play

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02-07-2013, 11:49 PM
  #48
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Well, I guess Reaves wasn't the silver bullet.

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02-08-2013, 08:26 AM
  #49
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Well, I guess Reaves wasn't the silver bullet.
No one said he was the silver bullet... he is best on that 4th line, and you cannot deny that. With that said, him on the 4th line allows us to not have to move the other lines around... until Hitch does that himself.

There were many more factors going into that loss...
What the hell was he thinking putting Tarasenko and Schwartz on the same line. McDonald Steen and Tarasenko have chemistry... so did Bergy's line before the switch.

I don't know what he is thinking putting two rookies on the same line, especially with a small language barrier - in my opinion, Tarasenko is better off with Veterans like Steen and McDonald vs. another rookie (schwartz). Schwartz seems to wander around a bit... only natural for a first full (half) rookie season.

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02-08-2013, 02:08 PM
  #50
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Last night was one of his worst games I've seen. He was completely invisible.

It's a complete mystery to me why this entire team has stopped playing with their physical forecheck.

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