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Penguins need another top 4 defenseman

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01-29-2013, 12:42 PM
  #26
Shady Machine
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
They need one before the deadline. Remember - win now. Save all this "future" stuff for the Pirates. Crosby and Malkin are in their primes, you don't waste entire seasons because you want to bring up a few defensemen.

And so what if they trade Despres? They have a bunch of guys just like him in their system. That's why it's okay to trade for another top 4 guy.



Another problem with some Pens fans: they tend to overrate their own.
What are you talking about? We can win in the regular season with what we have so we should do that. Giving Despres time in the NHL will only up his trade value later in the season.

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01-29-2013, 12:43 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
But was that the best deal available? How do you know? So you make Staal happy but not Michalek if he asked for a move back to a specific team?

And Shero's plan we knew it all along he was going after both Parise and Suter, it failed but he tried and he tried hard.
Staal declined a very generous offer from the pens. He made it known that he wanted to sign with Carolina. What team would offer the pens a good deal for Staal when he would walk in a year?

Michalek was under contract. He didnt make it known to everyone that he wanted traded. Maybe it was the best offer, if it was dont make the trade. Teams have a grace period in the summer to go over the cap and they just slashed Staal's cap hit and Sullivan's. it was a desperate unnecessary move to essentially donate michalek as a tax write off.

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01-29-2013, 12:44 PM
  #28
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A good reason for the Michalek trade?

Salary cap, we needed to clear space, and before anyone says it should have been Martin, what's working now? Orpik-Martin, what didn't work last year? Orpik-Michalek

I don't think the Michalek trade was dumb at all, Niskanen looks like a solid top 4 defenseman, Orpik, Martin and Letang are fine. We have Simon Despres in the NHL starting with 3rd pair minutes, now gets paired with Letang.

Nothing to the Michalek trade, we don't need another top 4 defenseman.

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01-29-2013, 12:45 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
A good reason for the Michalek trade?

Salary cap, we needed to clear space, and before anyone says it should have been Martin, what's working now? Orpik-Martin, what didn't work last year? Orpik-Michalek

I don't think the Michalek trade was dumb at all, Niskanen looks like a solid top 4 defenseman, Orpik, Martin and Letang are fine. We have Simon Despres in the NHL starting with 3rd pair minutes, now gets paired with Letang.

Nothing to the Michalek trade, we don't need another top 4 defenseman.
We needed to clear cap space for what exactly?

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01-29-2013, 12:46 PM
  #30
Le Magnifique 66
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
A good reason for the Michalek trade?

Salary cap, we needed to clear space, and before anyone says it should have been Martin, what's working now? Orpik-Martin, what didn't work last year? Orpik-Michalek

I don't think the Michalek trade was dumb at all, Niskanen looks like a solid top 4 defenseman, Orpik, Martin and Letang are fine. We have Simon Despres in the NHL starting with 3rd pair minutes, now gets paired with Letang.

Nothing to the Michalek trade, we don't need another top 4 defenseman.
agreed and the bottom line was the Cap space which was going to be used on Parise and Suter.

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01-29-2013, 12:46 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
We needed to clear cap space for what exactly?
Well at the time, nothing, but now that we know that Cap is decreasing, isn't it better that Shero put the team in a better position to keep guys like Letang and Malkin?

EDIT: Oh yeah, like what Le Magnifique 66 said, we cleared space to get Parise and Suter, failed to do so, found out the Cap was decreasing in the new CBA, Pens don't have to do as much cap work as they would have if they kept Michalek.

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01-29-2013, 12:48 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
We needed to clear cap space for what exactly?
Parise ?

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01-29-2013, 12:49 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
agreed and the bottom line was the Cap space which was going to be used on Parise and Suter.
That's fine and dandy, but Suter made it pretty apparent that he wanted to remain in the western conference and be near his home in Wisconsin.

In the end, it sounded like the pens weren't near the top of Parise's top choices. It seemed like it was down to New Jersey and Minnesota.

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01-29-2013, 12:49 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
We needed to clear cap space for what exactly?
Was Shero not making room for Parise & Suter if he could land them?

Murray from ottawa also had intest in Z but wanted Shero to take salary back. Something he stated he did not want to do. Suitors become much fewer when a GM doesnt want to take back any salary

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01-29-2013, 12:52 PM
  #35
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Besides Martin and Michek, what big name free agents have signed here over the past 7 years? I know we've been limited by cap room,
but it seems like Gonchar was the last above average player signed before Martin and Michalek.

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01-29-2013, 12:54 PM
  #36
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Palffy but yes that's about it

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01-29-2013, 12:55 PM
  #37
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Maybe those players aren't interested in playing for the Pens as much as they are other preferred destinations?

Like you said, limited cap space, we haven't had millions to spend in a while, until last summer, which is why Shero tried to land big names. Parise went home and Suter wanted to stay in the Western Conference.

You can't blame Shero for big name players not wanting to come here, it's their decision, We never could afford someone on the open market, that's why Shero works trade deadlines (except for alst year)

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01-29-2013, 12:55 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Well at the time, nothing, but now that we know that Cap is decreasing, isn't it better that Shero put the team in a better position to keep guys like Letang and Malkin?

EDIT: Oh yeah, like what Le Magnifique 66 said, we cleared space to get Parise and Suter, failed to do so, found out the Cap was decreasing in the new CBA, Pens don't have to do as much cap work as they would have if they kept Michalek.
That's a stupid reason to trade an effective player. We could have tried to sign both and if it worked out, traded Michalek over the summer. And, we could trade Michalek after this season if it was about cap space for Malkin/Letang.

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01-29-2013, 01:00 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Engel is not top 4 but Martin is. Engel can fill in when called upon.
Engelland is the weak point but is capable. I'd ideally like someone to go on the second line but with our D corp that's something that could change in the coming years.

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01-29-2013, 01:02 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
We need secondary scoring more. Matt Niskanen is a top 4 guy. Having Tanner Glass on Geno's LW and glorified grinders with Sid should be on Shero's mind first and foremost.

Orpik and Martin have played like a true top pairing. Don't touch it. Letang has been our worst top 4 D so far this year. We're fine.

Add a vet to the bottom pairing if you wish. But I don't see the need there either.
Based on what? A few games into the regular season?

Quote:
What are you talking about? We can win in the regular season with what we have so we should do that. Giving Despres time in the NHL will only up his trade value later in the season.
Pens need to win the division, preferably getting the first or second seed. Don't want to play a team like the Flyers or Rangers in the first round again. Trading for a top 4 defenseman sooner rather than later would help them reach that goal of winning the division.

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01-29-2013, 01:04 PM
  #41
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I agree that Defense is our biggest problem - not a winger.

However, I really like how our D has been playing in general this season. Not sure where Martin came from or what revitalized Opik, but I'm 100% pleased with it so far. Assuming Nisky is back soon and something sparks inside of Letang, we'll look pretty solid D wise. One long-term injury and we get much worse though, IMO.

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01-29-2013, 01:05 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Pens need to win the division, preferably getting the first or second seed. Don't want to play a team like the Flyers or Rangers in the first round again. Trading for a top 4 defenseman sooner rather than later would help them reach that goal of winning the division.
Agree to disagree. I'd rather let the d work itself out during the season. The forwards definitely need upgrades.

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01-29-2013, 01:10 PM
  #43
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I don't know what else Niskanen has to do to win people over. He was one of our most consistent D-men last year. Played big minutes for us. And continued that level of play as a top 4 D in the playoffs. And this season, he's outplayed Letang.

Niskanen/Letang will be fine in the playoffs. Especially with Orpik/Martin as a shutdown pairing. Kunitz/Sid/Dupuis needs an upgrade.

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01-29-2013, 01:14 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Agree to disagree. I'd rather let the d work itself out during the season. The forwards definitely need upgrades.
Then call up Beau Bennett. When you have Crosby, Malkin, and Neal the goals will there. Kunitz and Dupuis also netted 26 and 25 respectively last year. If they did get another top 6 winger, like Setoguchi, I won't be upset. But the defense is a bigger issue on this team right now.

Don't think just because the Penguins' prospects are highly rated means they are ready for top 4, or that they are okay to go into the playoffs with. Some of us have the tendency to think such.

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01-29-2013, 01:15 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Based on what? A few games into the regular season?
Could you just name a couple of players you think we could trade for without giving up current top4 or top6 F, that would put our D in a better position than Niskanen? I promise not to come back at you with "oh, they won`t ever trade him anyway" or "let me cite his worst possible season", I just want to know what type of guy is the solution in your mind. Just to understand.

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01-29-2013, 01:17 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I don't know what else Niskanen has to do to win people over. He was one of our most consistent D-men last year. Played big minutes for us. And continued that level of play as a top 4 D in the playoffs. And this season, he's outplayed Letang.

Niskanen/Letang will be fine in the playoffs. Especially with Orpik/Martin as a shutdown pairing. Kunitz/Sid/Dupuis needs an upgrade.
You're saying he did good in last year's playoffs.....?

How many goals were scored in that series again? I don't see how any defeseman should get praise for what happened in that series.

They need another top 4 d-man to play with Letang. Niskanen is a better #5.

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01-29-2013, 01:19 PM
  #47
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Then call up Beau Bennett. When you have Crosby, Malkin, and Neal the goals will there. Kunitz and Dupuis also netted 26 and 25 respectively last year. If they did get another top 6 winger, like Setoguchi, I won't be upset. But the defense is a bigger issue on this team right now.

Don't think just because the Penguins' prospects are highly rated means they are ready for top 4, or that they are okay to go into the playoffs with. Some of us have the tendency to think such.
Bennett isn't physically ready for the rigors of the NHL IMO. He makes the team next season. Last year was a career year for Duper and I don't expect him to score more than 20 again. Kunitz had a career year as well.

Bortuzzo is ready for the NHL (in a 3rd pairing role) and Despres is up here for a reason. None of the D prospects are top 4 NHL dmen today, but at some point you have to let them sink or swim. This season is the time for Bort and Despres. We can pick up a veteran at the deadline if it's really an issue. I personally think Eaton will sign an NHL deal once he's back in shape and will fill a role on this team down the stretch if injuries happen.

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01-29-2013, 01:20 PM
  #48
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You're saying he did good in last year's playoffs.....?

How many goals were scored in that series again? I don't see how any defeseman should get praise for what happened in that series.

They need another top 4 d-man to play with Letang. Niskanen is a better #5.
Having Niskanen as a bottom pairing d-man is a luxary most teams cant have. His play has improved a ton and deserves to be in the top 4

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01-29-2013, 01:20 PM
  #49
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Based on what? A few games into the regular season?
First, Niskanen looked good last year, especially towards the end of the season, and many would say that he was the Pens best Dman in the playoffs.

Second, just opinions on an internet message board, they can't hurt you.

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01-29-2013, 01:20 PM
  #50
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You're saying he did good in last year's playoffs.....?

How many goals were scored in that series again? I don't see how any defeseman should get praise for what happened in that series.

They need another top 4 d-man to play with Letang. Niskanen is a better #5.
Yes Niskanen was the Pen's best dman in last years playoffs. That might not be saying much, be he played very well IMO.

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