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Pierre Gauthier was terrible but...

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Old
01-29-2013, 05:05 AM
  #126
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Wish we had kept Streit that year, it could have been a truly dominant lineup.
Yes, but the loss was well-compensated by the acquisition of Schneider mid-season in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
I'm sorry, but the Cammalleri trade was awful. Losing Pouliot for nothing was a good move. Pouliot was pretty much the worst player in the NHL player in the league at the time and we were going to have to pay him about 3 million as a qualifying offer. Good riddance. The Kostitsyn trade was also brutal. He should have been able to get more.
Pouliot was not the worst player in the NHL, I think he had our best goal scoring at even strength measured per playing time, and he was not going to cost 3 million. He signed for 1.1 million with Boston.


Last edited by Habsfan18: 01-29-2013 at 01:46 PM. Reason: merge
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Old
01-29-2013, 07:49 AM
  #127
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One comment? He was well disliked before then and he was terrible, I guess it would have been smart to wait until his game fell apart then try and trade him right? Just like Gainey waited to trade Theodore, I am sure you hated that move too.

"Bad GM, hurt our team". Could your weak ass comments be any more vague? Cmon I have seen you type out massive text walls talking about nothing and this is all you have for the most hated guy on HFBOARDS Habs? Geez how could I possibly NOT get on that train of hate!? It is so well thought out and articulate!

Ya reputation dead among those who still chant "In Bob we trust" only now they do it quietly. Still got a job with one of the best teams in the league so I think you are wrong muffin. Why would they hire him as a GM when they already have a good one? That makes zero sense! They obviously wanted him in their management reguardless of position.

Ak strangled the life out of himself playing like the third liner he was, he didn't even get a contract THIS year! Cammy is over the hill and a buyout soon, Lapierre is a third liner and it was obvious guys were tired of fighting his battles for his big mouth. SK was another beloved drama queen who doesn't belong on this team, a "superstar" on a team that has almost no offense. Bourque is playing excellent on our top line for 3.3million and Kaberle brings some much needed skills and depth to our defense.

If he had another 5 years I would expect more of the same, responsible signings, acquisition of drafts picks for outgoing players and building a big team that can fight its own battles. Bergevin has enjoyed the team Gauthier built and made some very nice moves himself that you were whining about earlier, I think I will take his word over yours.
Dude, I don't understand your love for this guy. He sucked. Just accept it.

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01-29-2013, 09:18 AM
  #128
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I'd rather have Cammalleri than draft a player who could become Cammalleri. If only he was patient for a few more months, we'd have our second line left-wing slot locked down.

This was one of the worst trades we've made simply in terms of who we let go. He was a playoff God for us.
Being a playoff "god" doesn't give you the right to mail it in all year and be a sook while collecting 6 mil/year.

If Cammy was still here he might bought out in the summer instead of Kaberle.

Bourque even with no goals yet is a better player than Cammy so far PLUS we got a 2nd and Holland. Calgary got a 5th and a goalie who wants to play KHL instead of backing up.

That trade would be worth it JUST to get rid of Cammalleri's 6 mil cap hit.

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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Bingo. Funny thing is this team is missing a guy just like Cammy. The Cammy hate is pretty unreal though. He scored 40 goals in his 1st season including the playoffs. Then 19 the year before in an injury plagued season. Still lead the team in scoring in the playoffs. Last year was a mess for everyone not named Cole, Pacioretty and DD. He commented on the direction of the team (which he was right about) and then the fans dumped on him. Still managed to score 11 goals in 28 games with the Flames.

Habs fans are so fickle. He went from greatest ever to a four letter word in a year. Bourque has 2 points and now there's a thread about people needing to eat crow. Tehre will be a "buy out" thread made by the end of the year.

Gauthier was terrible.
No matter how you slice it Cammy wasn't worth his 6 mil cap hit. It becomes a cap gobbling albatross(almost 10% of cap) this summer. Imagine having to do with him what we just did with Gomez.


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01-29-2013, 10:38 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Yeah right... he makes one comment and becomes a cancer that we need to get rid of in the middle of a game. And the very day he makes it the analysts start discussing his trade value and all of them say he's worth at least a first... then we make that panic trade.
Not that I was a fan of PG, but the Cammy trade isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

First it wasn't a panic trade, it's been well reported that they had been working on a Cammy trade on/off for a couple months beforehand. At most Cammy's "loser" comments made Gauthier lower his asking price.

Second, no matter who we traded him too we were always going to pick up a Bourque-like contract. It's a salary-cap world. If you have a particular dislike for Bourque's contract then fine, but we always were going to pick up some bad salary.

As for being worth a 1st, I tend to agree. That being said we got a 2nd and a prospect which is not far off. It seems likely that PG was asking for a first and that's why talks had been going on for months. After "Cammy-gate" Gauthier decided to play it safe and get what he can now rather than risk Cammy's value dropping even more. Playing it safe doesn't make you terrible!

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01-29-2013, 11:35 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
No GM, even houle or milbury, is without some moves/decisions that worked out.

Gauthier screwed up, or at best got the bare minimum, all of his big moves.

But worse, much worse, is that he had a big role in building the culture that led to last years absolute failure.

Getting gally and colberg could very well be the highlight of his tenure... Nuff said
This!

As bad as his moves were, as GM he did NOT promote any type of stability... more like sheer panik!

Just look at what he did to Cunneyworth. The man was doing fine in Hamilton and the farm team had some stability. He brings him here, puts in a NO WIN situation and then apologizes for making him the head coach.

As far as Cammaleri; if he REALLY thought the deal was close, they should have scratched him from the game. Nobody has even seen a player leave the bench DURING a game because he was traded, have they?

His nickname "the ghost" was so dead on; the product on the ice was not very good and the way he ran the orginization OFF the ice was even worse!

He's gone along with Gainey and the orginization is MUCH better of because of it.

Case closed!

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01-29-2013, 11:48 AM
  #131
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Was watching an Islanders game the other night and damn Streit looked really good. Really wish we could have kept him somehow. He's really incredible at quarter backing a power play, still has that mental shot and a really good skater.

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01-29-2013, 12:18 PM
  #132
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Gauthier was not fit for a media exposed market. He could possibly do fine in Nashville or somewhere similar. He was by far not the worst GM we've had. In my lifetime that dishonour goes to Rejean Houle who singlehandedly took a perennial contender and gutted it to the point we were an embarassment. Gainey did well until his daughter was lost at sea and then he fell apart, understandably so.

What few realize is that being a GM is like being a politician. Real impact requires years of strategic building, most of which isn't seen or appreciated. Few are around long enough to see the fruits of their labour. We are still benefitting from the rebuilding Andre Savard began and Gainey continued. Much better scouting, more professionalism throughout. Unfortunately Gainey had personal tragedy and Gauthier came in and panicked. Had Markov never been injured though the whole history of the last three years would be radically different. We got A. Gally out of it so I'm thankful for that but last year was brutal.

This year with Markov back and Therrien (not perfect but a good coach for the time being) I actually look forward to the games. Last year I really started to lose interest. Every time I saw Cunneyworth behind the bench last year I felt pity for him. So classless to stick him in that spot...

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01-29-2013, 12:24 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Out East View Post
This year with Markov back and Therrien (not perfect but a good coach for the time being) I actually look forward to the games. Last year I really started to lose interest. Every time I saw Cunneyworth behind the bench last year I felt pity for him. So classless to stick him in that spot...
Damn you're a strong fan if you only started to lose interest last year.

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01-29-2013, 12:52 PM
  #134
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Why do people feel the need to constantly bring up and crap(often times not logically) on pas coaches or GM's?

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01-29-2013, 01:09 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Why do people feel the need to constantly bring up and crap(often times not logically) on pas coaches or GM's?
I was thinking why was this thread brought up at all? To vindicate somehow an absolute horrible hockey exec?


Most dead horse beating threads get shut down within minutes, this one lived on so you know there was going to be more than just one side giving Gauthier his due.

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01-29-2013, 01:27 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
This!

As bad as his moves were, as GM he did NOT promote any type of stability... more like sheer panik!

Just look at what he did to Cunneyworth. The man was doing fine in Hamilton and the farm team had some stability. He brings him here, puts in a NO WIN situation and then apologizes for making him the head coach.

As far as Cammaleri; if he REALLY thought the deal was close, they should have scratched him from the game. Nobody has even seen a player leave the bench DURING a game because he was traded, have they?

His nickname "the ghost" was so dead on; the product on the ice was not very good and the way he ran the orginization OFF the ice was even worse!

He's gone along with Gainey and the orginization is MUCH better of because of it.

Case closed!
How was Cunneyworth put in a "no win" situation"? That's ******** if I ever heard it. PG gave him an NHL COACHING JOB...you know there ones where there are only 30 in the whole world!!! Do you think if Cunneyworth had made the playoffs and gone to the 2nd round that he would no longer be there? If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.

PG never apologised for naming him head coach Molson did after the separatists flipped out. Should have grown a set and told them to shut up, funniest part is the protesters were not even people taht attend hockey games.

Players HAVE been pulled from games before due to trades or potential trades. Not that far out of the ordinary.

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01-29-2013, 01:43 PM
  #137
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Pouliot was not the worst player in the NHL, I think he had our best goal scoring at even strength measured per playing time, and he was not going to cost 3 million. He signed for 1.1 million with Boston.
This time I agree with you.

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01-29-2013, 01:45 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Why do people feel the need to constantly bring up and crap(often times not logically) on pas coaches or GM's?
This is rich.

PG was/is a disaster wherever he goes. He left his mark of failure deeply imprinted in Montreal.

I agree. No need to ever bring up Gauthier again.

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01-29-2013, 01:49 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Why do people feel the need to constantly bring up and crap(often times not logically) on pas coaches or GM's?
They need scapegoats for the chronic subpar performance of the Habs. I wonder who was the last Habs GM who pleased them? Probably none in the 21st century. Or the last coach? Probably none since since Pat Burns.

It does no good to rehash the past. Such behavior is typical of dictatorial regimes. The Soviets constantly rewrote their history, creating nonpersons along the way. It hasn't stopped. A few days ago the Putin government put on trial a dissident who died in a jail cell 3 years ago! Are residents of PQ similarly cynical and/or deranged? I plead with the fans on this board to let it go. We now have a management that appears to be on the right track. The players seem to have a new spirit, new energy. The last serious complaint lodged on HFBoards, Subban's holdout, has been amicably resolved.


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01-29-2013, 02:15 PM
  #140
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I really wish we had details of the stuff he was involved in as ast GM, but its too tough, ppl blame him for the Gomez trade since he was head pro scout, and etc, but GM's and Ast GM doesn't always agree on things, and the GM has a final say. So if you blame him for the Gomez deal, do you credit him for Rivet and for Gorges deal, ppl thought Gorges was a throw in, do we credit him for the the Hamrlik, Gill signings...

If I look at his moves when he became GM, he was a "meh" GM, not good, but not as bad as the media made it seem.

The really problem with Gauthier is that he isn't a leader, he isn't a guy you want to be the leader of your franchise, because he doesn't like the media, he isn't social, and while the media makes him out to be unprofessional, I think his problem is that he is too professional, Hal Gill said it himself, he said that Gauthier was dealing with this the way business schools teach you how to, that doesn't suit well with hockey.

Best example, the way he told players about being traded, would agree to a deal with a team, while waiting for the deal to be complete with the league office, he would go tell the player he was traded, so he won't find out through the media, but says can't tell you where until its official. I mean when dealing with ppl that looks like a bs move, but its such a by the book business like move.

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01-29-2013, 02:35 PM
  #141
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I really wish we had details of the stuff he was involved in as ast GM, but its too tough, ppl blame him for the Gomez trade since he was head pro scout, and etc, but GM's and Ast GM doesn't always agree on things, and the GM has a final say. So if you blame him for the Gomez deal, do you credit him for Rivet and for Gorges deal, ppl thought Gorges was a throw in, do we credit him for the the Hamrlik, Gill signings...

If I look at his moves when he became GM, he was a "meh" GM, not good, but not as bad as the media made it seem.

The really problem with Gauthier is that he isn't a leader, he isn't a guy you want to be the leader of your franchise, because he doesn't like the media, he isn't social, and while the media makes him out to be unprofessional, I think his problem is that he is too professional, Hal Gill said it himself, he said that Gauthier was dealing with this the way business schools teach you how to, that doesn't suit well with hockey.

Best example, the way he told players about being traded, would agree to a deal with a team, while waiting for the deal to be complete with the league office, he would go tell the player he was traded, so he won't find out through the media, but says can't tell you where until its official. I mean when dealing with ppl that looks like a bs move, but its such a by the book business like move.
Hasn't the statute of limitations run out on that canard? There's as much proof as there is that Barack Obama was born in Kenya.

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01-29-2013, 02:38 PM
  #142
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more than his actual hockey related moves, the guy was an absolute wart on the face of the Canadiens.

The way he dealt with staff, players, media was just unbecoming of a man in his position.

Top that off with questionable trades and roster moves= good riddance.

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01-29-2013, 02:47 PM
  #143
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I was going to make a criple joke, but I can't stand them.

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01-29-2013, 03:11 PM
  #144
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How was Cunneyworth put in a "no win" situation"? That's ******** if I ever heard it. PG gave him an NHL COACHING JOB...you know there ones where there are only 30 in the whole world!!! Do you think if Cunneyworth had made the playoffs and gone to the 2nd round that he would no longer be there? If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.

PG never apologised for naming him head coach Molson did after the separatists flipped out. Should have grown a set and told them to shut up, funniest part is the protesters were not even people taht attend hockey games.

Players HAVE been pulled from games before due to trades or potential trades. Not that far out of the ordinary.
He put Cunneyworth in a sh--y situation. Cunneyworth was NOT ready to be an NHL coach. He was being groomed to become one down the road with only a couple seasons of assistant coaching duties , but he was dumped into a trainwreck of a team where he had close to zero chance of accomplishing anything reasonable whether due to the language issue or the awful team on the ice or the hastily poor decisions of a desperate GM.

It made no difference to the team, but it could quite possibly ruin anything Cunneyworth had going for him in the future at possibly getting another legitimate NHL coaching job.

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01-29-2013, 03:18 PM
  #145
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He put Cunneyworth in a sh--y situation. Cunneyworth was NOT ready to be an NHL coach. He was being groomed to become one down the road with only a couple seasons of assistant coaching duties , but he was dumped into a trainwreck of a team where he had close to zero chance of accomplishing anything reasonable whether due to the language issue or the awful team on the ice or the hastily poor decisions of a desperate GM.

It made no difference to the team, but it could quite possibly ruin anything Cunneyworth had going for him in the future at possibly getting another legitimate NHL coaching job.
Baloney.

He was coaching in the AHL for like 10 years, how much grooming did he need? Deboer and others junped to the NHL straight from junior.

The situation became a trainwreck in large part because of his coaching plus a few injuries. Language had nothin g to do with wins and losses.

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01-29-2013, 04:19 PM
  #146
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Not that I was a fan of PG, but the Cammy trade isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

First it wasn't a panic trade, it's been well reported that they had been working on a Cammy trade on/off for a couple months beforehand. At most Cammy's "loser" comments made Gauthier lower his asking price.
It was made a day after Cammy's minor rant. A rant for which he apologized the very next day and it was made in the middle of a "must win game" for a player who was still under suspension...

When asked why he didn't do it earlier PG said "well, the player was suspended..."

?????

Yeah, doesn't make any sense to me either. And none other than Bobby Mac said as much the next night when he said that the trade "strains credulity" if you think Cammy's words had nothing to do with this. PG was also worried about his job so he takes a longshot bet on Bouque. Same as he did with Kaberle...

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Second, no matter who we traded him too we were always going to pick up a Bourque-like contract. It's a salary-cap world. If you have a particular dislike for Bourque's contract then fine, but we always were going to pick up some bad salary.

As for being worth a 1st, I tend to agree. That being said we got a 2nd and a prospect which is not far off. It seems likely that PG was asking for a first and that's why talks had been going on for months. After "Cammy-gate" Gauthier decided to play it safe and get what he can now rather than risk Cammy's value dropping even more. Playing it safe doesn't make you terrible!
I would've been okay with picking up Bourque actually if he came along with a 1st. I agree, there'd have to be salary coming back. But if you're going to do this at least get a first out of it or tell the Flames to go jump in the lake.

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01-29-2013, 04:25 PM
  #147
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Was watching an Islanders game the other night and damn Streit looked really good. Really wish we could have kept him somehow. He's really incredible at quarter backing a power play, still has that mental shot and a really good skater.
I remember when we lost Streit. I had no idea he was going to be as good as he has been. He's been really impressive and has actually lived up to the contract that I thought was ridiculous. Good for him.
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
I was thinking why was this thread brought up at all? To vindicate somehow an absolute horrible hockey exec?

Most dead horse beating threads get shut down within minutes, this one lived on so you know there was going to be more than just one side giving Gauthier his due.
These threads always bring out two or three guys who still defend the hell out of him and everyone else is happy that he's gone.

And I still always get sucked in.
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
They need scapegoats for the chronic subpar performance of the Habs. I wonder who was the last Habs GM who pleased them? Probably none in the 21st century. Or the last coach? Probably none since since Pat Burns.

It does no good to rehash the past. Such behavior is typical of dictatorial regimes. The Soviets constantly rewrote their history, creating nonpersons along the way. It hasn't stopped. A few days ago the Putin government put on trial a dissident who died in a jail cell 3 years ago! Are residents of PQ similarly cynical and/or deranged? I plead with the fans on this board to let it go. We now have a management that appears to be on the right track. The players seem to have a new spirit, new energy. The last serious complaint lodged on HFBoards, Subban's holdout, has been amicably resolved.
Scapegoats or explanations? Look at PG's record or transactions. Look at how he conducted himself. He's not a scapegoat man, he's a reason for failure.
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Baloney.

He was coaching in the AHL for like 10 years, how much grooming did he need? Deboer and others junped to the NHL straight from junior.

The situation became a trainwreck in large part because of his coaching plus a few injuries. Language had nothin g to do with wins and losses.
Do you not remember him throwing Cunneyworth under the bus?

Why do you feel the need to defend everything? At what point do you ever say...."Hey you know what? The Montreal Canadiens have done a lot of stupid things in recent years. Why haven't I realized this?"

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01-29-2013, 04:40 PM
  #148
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It was made a day after Cammy's minor rant. A rant for which he apologized the very next day and it was made in the middle of a "must win game" for a player who was still under suspension...

When asked why he didn't do it earlier PG said "well, the player was suspended..."

?????

Yeah, doesn't make any sense to me either. And none other than Bobby Mac said as much the next night when he said that the trade "strains credulity" if you think Cammy's words had nothing to do with this. PG was also worried about his job so he takes a longshot bet on Bouque. Same as he did with Kaberle...


I would've been okay with picking up Bourque actually if he came along with a 1st. I agree, there'd have to be salary coming back. But if you're going to do this at least get a first out of it or tell the Flames to go jump in the lake.
The fact that negotiations had been ongoing for a while likely means PG was asking for a 1st along with Bourque and the Flames didn't want to do it. After Cammy's comments PG probably figured Cammy's value was only going to go down so he made the trade. I don't consider that to be panicking nor do I think he was trying to save his job/season.

Personally I think we should've held on to Cammy longer and hoped for either a rebound in play or teams getting desperate at the deadline so that we could get that 1st but you make it seem like it was a dreadful deal which it wasn't. We got decent value, we weren't fleeced by any means.

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01-29-2013, 04:48 PM
  #149
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i think wizneiski for a 2nd was a pretty underrated deal he made to...it was solid and it was exactly when we needed it. he would have been a great player if his salary demands weren;t through the roof.

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01-29-2013, 04:50 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
The fact that negotiations had been ongoing for a while likely means PG was asking for a 1st along with Bourque and the Flames didn't want to do it. After Cammy's comments PG probably figured Cammy's value was only going to go down so he made the trade. I don't consider that to be panicking nor do I think he was trying to save his job/season.

Personally I think we should've held on to Cammy longer and hoped for either a rebound in play or teams getting desperate at the deadline so that we could get that 1st but you make it seem like it was a dreadful deal which it wasn't. We got decent value, we weren't fleeced by any means.
He should've shopped him around...

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