HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Bylsma/coaching discussion thread

View Poll Results: How long do you give Dan?
Fire him now 18 22.22%
15 games 33 40.74%
30 games 4 4.94%
Fire him if we fail in the play-offs 23 28.40%
Keep him till next year 3 3.70%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-29-2013, 10:11 AM
  #351
UnderratedBrooks44
Registered User
 
UnderratedBrooks44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Miranda's house
Posts: 15,661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC24 View Post
I am still trying to figure out how Barry Trotz still has a job.

I think DB has a another two years of early exits before he is shown the door (this truncated season is just a ready made excuse for ALL the GM's). However one long run to the conference or Cup finals and his clock starts over.
How does Trotz still have a job? He takes a team with a low budget and not a lot of goal scoring to the playoffs regularly, that's how.

People are knocking down Babcock a little too much to make themselves feel better about Bylsma IMO. Babcock's team is much, MUCH older than the Penguins in a lot of areas and the top end talent isn't equal to what we have. Plus it's not Babcock's fault that Holland hasn't signed anyone of note in way too long of a time. The roster flat out isn't as good, maybe not nearly as good.

Compare our roster to theirs and factor in age. Not the same to me.

UnderratedBrooks44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 10:35 AM
  #352
Generational Player
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 10,602
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
How does Trotz still have a job? He takes a team with a low budget and not a lot of goal scoring to the playoffs regularly, that's how.
I get it the first, lets say NINE seasons, but it has been thirteen now. The last four with a top five goalie and two of best defenders in the game.

But if the only expectation is to do well and hopefully make/maybe win a round in the playoffs, o.k. then mission accomplished and Trotz should get another thirteen years.

Generational Player is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 10:46 AM
  #353
UnderratedBrooks44
Registered User
 
UnderratedBrooks44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Miranda's house
Posts: 15,661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC24 View Post
I get it the first, lets say NINE seasons, but it has been thirteen now. The last four with a top five goalie and two of best defenders in the game.

But if the only expectation is to do well and hopefully make/maybe win a round in the playoffs, o.k. then mission accomplished and Trotz should get another thirteen years.
Only one team wins it every year. There are at least 3 teams in the West that have a clear cut better roster than Nashville every year. Also, look at their forwards and tell me you're still confused as to why they're not winning Cups. You act like they're the Sharks or something.

UnderratedBrooks44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 11:12 AM
  #354
Richard
Registered User
 
Richard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 935
vCash: 1145
From my recollection as well, Nashville has been stuck in the 4/5 hole which, contrary to the Penguins experience in 09, is one of the worst position to start a Cup playoff tournament.

Nashville is a solid team with no superstars save Weber. The need that big minutes eating centerman who can get them 80+ points a year to really have a shot.

Richard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 11:58 AM
  #355
BigBadBoris
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
I don't see any upside to benching and/or demoting Kunitz. Unless you think he has his head completely up his ass, he knows he needs to play better. It's like, Malkin's made some worse plays that Kunitz. Bench Malkin? No. I think the various bad plays are just a function of the whole team looking disorganized and disjointed. Giving them more time and hoping they work out the kinks is the only option we have right now.
At least you get some good with the bad with Geno. Kunitz hasnīt done anything positive so far

BigBadBoris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 12:26 PM
  #356
Dupree13
Registered User
 
Dupree13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 4,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadBoris View Post
At least you get some good with the bad with Geno. Kunitz hasnīt done anything positive so far
I'm not at all convinced that his struggles aren't just a symptom of an entire group that's been really lackluster. A few poor plays of his may have stuck out more but I don't think he's been uniquely terrible.

But even if he really has been as bad as what folks are saying, what do you think is accomplished by benching him? He's having a rough start. He didn't just forget how to play, and the only way forward is to give a vet like him the benefit of the doubt and expect that he will turn it around. Because if he doesn't, this team is in even more trouble than we think they might be.

Dupree13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 12:29 PM
  #357
UnderratedBrooks44
Registered User
 
UnderratedBrooks44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Miranda's house
Posts: 15,661
vCash: 500
They're not benching Kunitz for god's sake. Bench him and play who??? Seriously guys get a grip.

UnderratedBrooks44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 12:47 PM
  #358
Dupree13
Registered User
 
Dupree13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 4,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
They're not benching Kunitz for god's sake. Bench him and play who??? Seriously guys get a grip.
Not to mention putting a monkey wrench in the room by throwing a respected vet and alternate captain under the bus...just a bad idea. If this team's issues are to be worked out at all, they need to be worked out as a group and Kunitz is an essential part of that group.

Dupree13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:01 PM
  #359
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 19,756
vCash: 500
Are people really being obtuse on purpose or is it that difficult to discern between being scratched and being benched for several shifts?

Here is a brilliant philosophy... Lets bench rookies for minimal mistakes, but reward vets who are making mental error after mental error, game after game. Lets even reward Kunitz with #1 PP time and keep driving home the point these mistakes are acceptable.

How any of you could argue agt. giving a couple of his shifts to guys who are playing responsible hockey, such as Sutter (outside of one game), Vitale, Glass, etc is ridiculous.

These guys may not light up the scoreboard, but at least you can give them a top line shift and expect them to manage the puck.

The double standard DB has for his vets is borderline stupid and trying to makes excuses for it is equally ridiculous.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:07 PM
  #360
Shady Machine
Registered User
 
Shady Machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 24,846
vCash: 500
I'm with Jiggy on this. We aren't advocating sitting Kunitz in the press box. I literally said that on the last page so either you are too lazy to read what we are actually saying or are being intentionally obtuse.

Shady Machine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:10 PM
  #361
MtlPenFan
Registered User
 
MtlPenFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
How does Trotz still have a job? He takes a team with a low budget and not a lot of goal scoring to the playoffs regularly, that's how.

People are knocking down Babcock a little too much to make themselves feel better about Bylsma IMO. Babcock's team is much, MUCH older than the Penguins in a lot of areas and the top end talent isn't equal to what we have. Plus it's not Babcock's fault that Holland hasn't signed anyone of note in way too long of a time. The roster flat out isn't as good, maybe not nearly as good.

Compare our roster to theirs and factor in age. Not the same to me.
If you're talking about this season, you'd be right, because the Wings are a shell of their former selves. However, after a handful of games where a six week training camp was condensed to less than a week, it's too early to judge any team.

But I don't see how you can look at previous seasons post lockout and claim the Pens have had the better roster. Our "top end" may be better, but in the end, you're still talking about TWO bodies, and it's not like Zetterberg and Datsyuk are slouches. Then you start adding Franzen, Cleary, Filppula, Hudler, Holmstrom, all guys who can create on their own (save for Holmstrom), and I don't see how you can compare our supporting cast to theirs.

And after all that, I still haven't even mentioned Lidstrom and what his presence did for that team.

MtlPenFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:10 PM
  #362
Dupree13
Registered User
 
Dupree13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 4,156
vCash: 500
If that's all you're saying then they have given guys a couple shifts with the top 6. I think damn near everybody on the team has had at least one shift with Malkin by now.

Dupree13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:13 PM
  #363
UnderratedBrooks44
Registered User
 
UnderratedBrooks44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Miranda's house
Posts: 15,661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Are people really being obtuse on purpose or is it that difficult to discern between being scratched and being benched for several shifts?

Here is a brilliant philosophy... Lets bench rookies for minimal mistakes, but reward vets who are making mental error after mental error, game after game.. Lets even reward Kunitz with #1 PP time and keep driving home the point these mistakes are acceptable.

How any of you could argue agt. giving a couple of his shifts to guys who are playing responsible hockey, such as Sutter (outside of one game). Vitale, Glass, etc is ridiculous.

These guys may not light up the scoreboard, but at least you can give them a top line shift and expect them to manage the puck.

The double standard DB has for his vets is borderline stupid and trying to makes excuses for it is equally ridiculous.
It's an odd year with a short schedule and almost no camp. Marleau has 8 goals. Kovalev had a 3 point game. Solid players like Dustin Brown and David Backes have been almost useless. Not everything is going to be perfect at the start.

Kunitz has proven to be a decent top 6 forward over his career. Not shown a little hustle, a consistent player. You're going to teach a 30+ year old guy a lesson and let some offensive void play in his place? Because he's having a bad start? Yeah cuz that's never happened to a player over a 5 game stretch before. He's the 4th best forward on the team for crying out loud.

Everyone needs to take a step back. We're 3-2 on the year and could play much better. It's not so bad. No I'm not benching him for a few shifts so Vitale or someone can have their day in the sun with Crosby. Not unless I'm a coach who wants to justifiably look like a complete ass.

UnderratedBrooks44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:18 PM
  #364
Shady Machine
Registered User
 
Shady Machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 24,846
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
If you're talking about this season, you'd be right, because the Wings are a shell of their former selves. However, after a handful of games where a six week training camp was condensed to less than a week, it's too early to judge any team.

But I don't see how you can look at previous seasons post lockout and claim the Pens have had the better roster. Our "top end" may be better, but in the end, you're still talking about TWO bodies, and it's not like Zetterberg and Datsyuk are slouches. Then you start adding Franzen, Cleary, Filppula, Hudler, Holmstrom, all guys who can create on their own (save for Holmstrom), and I don't see how you can compare our supporting cast to theirs.

And after all that, I still haven't even mentioned Lidstrom and what his presence did for that team.
Agreed. Detroit had a very deep lineup that fit their system quite well. Their skill level up and down the lineup was better than ours.

Shady Machine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:24 PM
  #365
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 19,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
It's an odd year with a short schedule and almost no camp. Marleau has 8 goals. Kovalev had a 3 point game. Solid players like Dustin Brown and David Backes have been almost useless. Not everything is going to be perfect at the start.

Kunitz has proven to be a decent top 6 forward over his career. Not shown a little hustle, a consistent player. You're going to teach a 30+ year old guy a lesson and let some offensive void play in his place? Because he's having a bad start? Yeah cuz that's never happened to a player over a 5 game stretch before. He's the 4th best forward on the team for crying out loud.

Everyone needs to take a step back. We're 3-2 on the year and could play much better. It's not so bad. No I'm not benching him for a few shifts so Vitale or someone can have their day in the sun with Crosby. Not unless I'm a coach who wants to justifiably look like a complete ass.
Please, this has nothing to do with Vitale or anyone else having their "day in the sun". Trying to deflect the argument there is BS. This is about making players accountable for their actions.

It doesn't take 5 games to understand you don't try to beat three guys at the blue line. Everything you wrote is just an excuse, sorry.

This is the exact same stuff that cost them down the stretch and into the playoffs. This isnt exclusive to this season or a lack of a real training camp, etc. A good coach knows when to send a message and isn't afraid that he may hurt someone's feelings.

Just because DB is afraid to bench vets doesn't mean it never happens. It is quite routine around the league and as I said before if a guy like Hitch was coaching this team Kunitz would of been on the bench, zero doubts about that.

And no, it doesn't mean I think Hitch should be here and not DB.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:32 PM
  #366
Florentino Ariza
Registered User
 
Florentino Ariza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Washington DC
Country: United States
Posts: 2,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Yeah I'm not talking about putting him in the press box. I'm saying take him off the PP for a game to say "this **** isn't working and until you figure it out, you aren't playing the PP". That's totally reasonable.
I should have said sitting him...yea. I don't think we should sit him for shifts or change where he's at in the lineup. It's too early for that too. Kunitz is a vet who knows that he's paying like **** and surely doesn't need to miss a few shifts to realize it. If this happens for a spam of 15 games, then it becomes detrimental to the team and action should be taken. But kunitz is a veteran who has paid his dues and knows his responsibilities. This isn't junior hockey and bylsma is not dealing with a whiner or a head case. He's better off talking privately with him and letting him work it out himself. Are people so obtuse that they believe sitting a veteran like kunitz is a good idea after 5 games?

Florentino Ariza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:34 PM
  #367
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
 
Le Magnifique 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,043
vCash: 500
Right now and i'm not even ****ing joking Therrien is looking like a better coach than DB

I've watched both teams so far and Therrien is adjusting in game while DB still keeps going with the same formation and doesn't make changes during the game

Le Magnifique 66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:35 PM
  #368
UnderratedBrooks44
Registered User
 
UnderratedBrooks44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Miranda's house
Posts: 15,661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Please, this has nothing to do with Vitale or anyone else having their "day in the sun". Trying to deflect the argument there is BS. This is about making players accountable for their actions.

It doesn't take 5 games to understand you don't try to beat three guys at the blue line. Everything you wrote is just an excuse, sorry.

This is the exact same stuff that cost them down the stretch and into the playoffs. This isnt exclusive to this season or a lack of a real training camp, etc. A good coach knows when to send a message and isn't afraid that he may hurt someone's feelings.

Just because DB is afraid to bench vets doesn't mean it never happens. It is quite routine around the league and as I said before if a guy like Hitch was coaching this team Kunitz would of been on the bench, zero doubts about that.

And no, it doesn't mean I think Hitch should be here and not DB.
I'd rather let him work it out, which we all know he will, especially when we don't have many guys that are sniffing the net right now. If you want to say sitting him for a bit is no big deal, well I don't think riding it out is either then. I'm not making excuses because I don't have to. It's five games into the freakin season. Goals are at a premium now for us. I'm not benching one of the better forwards when we can't even fill two lines with capable players sorry.

UnderratedBrooks44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:45 PM
  #369
UnderratedBrooks44
Registered User
 
UnderratedBrooks44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Miranda's house
Posts: 15,661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
If you're talking about this season, you'd be right, because the Wings are a shell of their former selves. However, after a handful of games where a six week training camp was condensed to less than a week, it's too early to judge any team.

But I don't see how you can look at previous seasons post lockout and claim the Pens have had the better roster. Our "top end" may be better, but in the end, you're still talking about TWO bodies, and it's not like Zetterberg and Datsyuk are slouches. Then you start adding Franzen, Cleary, Filppula, Hudler, Holmstrom, all guys who can create on their own (save for Holmstrom), and I don't see how you can compare our supporting cast to theirs.

And after all that, I still haven't even mentioned Lidstrom and what his presence did for that team.
Points well taken.

UnderratedBrooks44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:47 PM
  #370
UnderratedBrooks44
Registered User
 
UnderratedBrooks44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Miranda's house
Posts: 15,661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
I'm with Jiggy on this. We aren't advocating sitting Kunitz in the press box. I literally said that on the last page so either you are too lazy to read what we are actually saying or are being intentionally obtuse.
The guy above me said "benching". I didn't think to scan through to get every poster's perspective on the matter.

UnderratedBrooks44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:51 PM
  #371
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 19,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
I'd rather let him work it out, which we all know he will, especially when we don't have many guys that are sniffing the net right now. If you want to say sitting him for a bit is no big deal, well I don't think riding it out is either then. I'm not making excuses because I don't have to. It's five games into the freakin season. Goals are at a premium now for us. I'm not benching one of the better forwards when we can't even fill two lines with capable players sorry.
I would hope he works it out and I'm sure he will.

However, that doesn't excuse his mental mistakes. How many games is it acceptable to hurt your team before you should have your ice time reduced? Every game means more now and each mistake is magnified. If ever there was a time to reduce ice time, this would be it.

For the fifth time, a vet like Kunitz doesn't need five games to understand you don't turn the puck over up high three times like he did the last game. Neither turnover was forced... He had an easy play each time and made three dumb decisions. Cooke had a **** poor game the other day, then the next game was back to managing the puck well. Again, the excuse making is ridiculous and Kunitz is one of my favorite players, but I'm not going to defend his play.

It sends a poor message to keep rewarding him with shift after shift and then top it off with PP time.

You talk about scoring goals, but yet forget that mental mistakes also lead to goals agt.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 02:05 PM
  #372
MtlPenFan
Registered User
 
MtlPenFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
Right now and i'm not even ****ing joking Therrien is looking like a better coach than DB

I've watched both teams so far and Therrien is adjusting in game while DB still keeps going with the same formation and doesn't make changes during the game
They beat a horrible Washington team and blew a third period, two goal lead against Jersey and needed an OT PP to win.

Let's calm the hell down.

MtlPenFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 02:23 PM
  #373
sexyllama
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 961
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I would hope he works it out and I'm sure he will.

However, that doesn't excuse his mental mistakes. How many games is it acceptable to hurt your team before you should have your ice time reduced? Every game means more now and each mistake is magnified. If ever there was a time to reduce ice time, this would be it.

For the fifth time, a vet like Kunitz doesn't need five games to understand you don't turn the puck over up high three times like he did the last game. Neither turnover was forced... He had an easy play each time and made three dumb decisions. Cooke had a **** poor game the other day, then the next game was back to managing the puck well. Again, the excuse making is ridiculous and Kunitz is one of my favorite players, but I'm not going to defend his play.

It sends a poor message to keep rewarding him with shift after shift and then top it off with PP time.

You talk about scoring goals, but yet forget that mental mistakes also lead to goals agt.
Exactly, In the last 3 games, I think we've given away at least 5 goals on ill-advised passes through the middle. And that is with Goalie or Defense bailing us out on a few more (Engo comes to mind in previous game; Letang in another)

BTW- DB said Despres was benched because of inconsistency... pure comedy for him to even say that. I like DB (and I'm not saying we should change coaches) but for him to say that is just....

sexyllama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 02:29 PM
  #374
UnderratedBrooks44
Registered User
 
UnderratedBrooks44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Miranda's house
Posts: 15,661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I would hope he works it out and I'm sure he will.

However, that doesn't excuse his mental mistakes. How many games is it acceptable to hurt your team before you should have your ice time reduced? Every game means more now and each mistake is magnified. If ever there was a time to reduce ice time, this would be it.

For the fifth time, a vet like Kunitz doesn't need five games to understand you don't turn the puck over up high three times like he did the last game. Neither turnover was forced... He had an easy play each time and made three dumb decisions. Cooke had a **** poor game the other day, then the next game was back to managing the puck well. Again, the excuse making is ridiculous and Kunitz is one of my favorite players, but I'm not going to defend his play.

It sends a poor message to keep rewarding him with shift after shift and then top it off with PP time.

You talk about scoring goals, but yet forget that mental mistakes also lead to goals agt.
Jesus I'm not making excuses I'm just not seeing the value you're trying to build in benching him. Maybe if it was a different player I'd agree with you I dunno. I just don't see him as the type of guy that needs some sort of wake up call. He's making an unusual amount of mistakes. Ottawa was also a sloppy ass game on both sides at times. I'm just not that worried about it and he doesn't seem like a guy that needs a shot across his bow. Plus him being one of the few solid fwds we have and things like that are realities not excuses if you ask me.

UnderratedBrooks44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 02:50 PM
  #375
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 19,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Jesus I'm not making excuses I'm just not seeing the value you're trying to build in benching him. Maybe if it was a different player I'd agree with you I dunno. I just don't see him as the type of guy that needs some sort of wake up call. He's making an unusual amount of mistakes. Ottawa was also a sloppy ass game on both sides at times. I'm just not that worried about it and he doesn't seem like a guy that needs a shot across his bow. Plus him being one of the few solid fwds we have and things like that are realities not excuses if you ask me.
You can't see the value in reducing the ice time of a player that is clearly hurting your hockey team?

Less mistakes = better chance to win

It's not like he won't figure it out eventually, but you don't keep putting him out there when its obvious he is struggling to make the right decisions.

Again, it took Cooke exactly one game to correct his mistakes. Does he have some magical powers Kunitz doesn't have?

Mr Jiggyfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:36 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. Đ2016 All Rights Reserved.