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Dion Phaneuf

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Old
01-29-2013, 01:46 AM
  #76
EucaLEAFtys
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Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
Phaneuf is are most important player he shuts down the other teams top line (most of the time) and contributes offensively. I wouldn't trade him for anything other then an overpayment.

I'd consider it if we got back a valuable piece like Duchene. Duchene's value is pretty hard to gauge because he could up be a 60 point guy or a 75 point guy. I honestly don't see him as a 70 + point guy but we need at least a 1B type centre so if that options was available I would do it. Phaneuf might not be worth a 1A centre but he's at least worth a 1B.
And just how, pray tell, is Phaneuf the "most important player" on the Leafs?

A defensive game has never been Phaneuf's forte, and yet Carlyle is trying to use him in a "shut-down" role? Really.. the only thing that Phaneuf has successfully shut-down so far this season is his own offensive capability!

He's an offensive-minded defenceman.. not some stalwart on defence. Not to mention the fact that he's currently being grossly overplayed which has greatly exposed his limited defensive ability.

Phaneuf just doesn't fit into Carlyle's defence-first system because he's not a defence-first type of defenceman. For that reason (amongst others), he should be traded in order to take advantage of other teams' defensive needs.

This team is brutally awful right now and they don't really need Phaneuf on the team to continue being brutally awful. Trade him now for a better (and brighter)future in a few years!

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01-29-2013, 02:06 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by leugangen View Post
Would Philly move Couturier for him because they are desperate for D? I'd consider that deal as a Leafs fan.
Nah. As a Flyer fan, I'd hesitantly offer Jakub Voracek.

Might add a second round pick to that, but anything around Couturier or Schenn is a no-go.

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01-29-2013, 02:12 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by yideboit View Post
I'll get the whining about how it's been done before out of the way ... since I don't come on here 5-10 times a day like many of you, and haven't seen this thread in a while, but I was sitting here wondering if he even has any value left at this point?

Trying to keep bias out of the equation, what would his value be at this point to other teams? What is his value at this point to the Leafs?
His value to the leafs is wasted since they will not be sniffing the post season for another year or two.

I would move him back home to EDM for a 1st.

Say what you will about Dion.

A Phaneuf and Schultz PP unit would be deadly with the OIL young guns.

I would take the 1st, realizing it could be 15th or higher. BUt hoping it lands in the new style lottery. EDM is on the bubble and I would take the risk.

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01-29-2013, 02:17 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
The Leafs are the softest group of hockey players even with Dion. I can't believe people are actually entertaining the idea of moving him. Despicable.
And why, pray tell, shouldn't such an idea be entertained?

If the team is as soft as you say they are with Phaneuf in the line-up, then trading him isn't going to make the team any softer. And if it somehow does, then who cares, because at that point, the team won't be crawling out of the NHL's cellar anytime soon anyway.

In order to be an effective player, Phaneuf needs to have a defensive partner similar to Robyn Regher alongside him. He also needs to have his ice-time cut down dramatically to limit the opposition players' chances to expose his weak defensive game.

Teams around the NHL are desperately looking for defencemen right now, and since the Leafs are likely going to end up with a top-5 draft pick this summer, it's only natural that talk of moving Phaneuf has come to the fore.

Given the Leafs' desperate need to rebuild, it would be "despicable" if they DIDN'T consider moning him.

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Old
01-29-2013, 09:35 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
His value to the leafs is wasted since they will not be sniffing the post season for another year or two.

I would move him back home to EDM for a 1st.

Say what you will about Dion.

A Phaneuf and Schultz PP unit would be deadly with the OIL young guns.

I would take the 1st, realizing it could be 15th or higher. BUt hoping it lands in the new style lottery. EDM is on the bubble and I would take the risk.
The Oilers PP is already deadly even without Phaneuf. It's their 5-on-5 that really needs improving.

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Old
01-29-2013, 09:43 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
Phaneuf is are most important player he shuts down the other teams top line (most of the time) and contributes offensively. I wouldn't trade him for anything other then an overpayment.
Huh? Look at our GAA, our PK, his +/-, etc over the last few years. Opposing teams top players regularly score against us. Phaneufs main criticism is that he makes a lot of silly mistakes defensively.

Sure, he CAN play on a top pairing, but he is not currently doing a good job at shutting down other teams top line, not most of the time, not even half the time.

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01-29-2013, 09:46 AM
  #82
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Considering his play and the money he makes, his value really isnt as much as some here think. "borderline #1" comment made me chuckle, getting paid as a #1 doesnt mean u are

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Old
01-29-2013, 09:47 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
Phaneuf is are most important player he shuts down the other teams top line (most of the time) and contributes offensively. I wouldn't trade him for anything other then an overpayment.

I'd consider it if we got back a valuable piece like Duchene. Duchene's value is pretty hard to gauge because he could up be a 60 point guy or a 75 point guy. I honestly don't see him as a 70 + point guy but we need at least a 1B type centre so if that options was available I would do it. Phaneuf might not be worth a 1A centre but he's at least worth a 1B.
lol so delusional thanks for the laugh this morning, so hes a "shutdown guy" now? haha, ok.

You have zero chance of getting a player like Duchene for this bum

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:21 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
Not sure if serious....
Yeah silly me for actually wanting the leafs to make the playoffs.

Were 5 games in, and your actually willing to write the season off already? Pathetic.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:35 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by FlyingHigh28 View Post
Nah. As a Flyer fan, I'd hesitantly offer Jakub Voracek.

Might add a second round pick to that, but anything around Couturier or Schenn is a no-go.
And this isn't bad, but we need centers, not wingers.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:55 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by chunkbox View Post
i dunno Dion is a game changer ... if i were the Leafs i would be just fine having him on my team
He sure changed the Leafs game

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Old
01-29-2013, 12:05 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
Yeah silly me for actually wanting the leafs to make the playoffs.

Were 5 games in, and your actually willing to write the season off already? Pathetic.
Pathetic? Hardly.. more realistic than anything else.

What's pathetic is the majority of a fan-base who delude themselves on a yearly basis that the Leafs are good enough to earn a play-off spot despite the fact that the team's overall talent level hasn't really improved in years!

Yes.. at this moment, the Leaf are only 5 games into this current season, but their play AS A TEAM hasn't improved one bit since last season (when they ended with a top-5 draft pick). Factor into the equation that the Leafs are also trying to learn a new system "on the fly" and it's virtually guaranteed that they will end up with another top-5 draft pick this summer.

It's pretty evident that what this team/organization needs is a complete rebuild, not some half-assed re-tool like what Burke tried to do and failed miserably at.

If you (and others like you) cannot grasp such a simple comcept, then I can't help you.

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Old
01-29-2013, 12:11 PM
  #88
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Tor: Stastny+O'Brian

Col: Phaneuf+Bozak

Close to same cap hit and term for the principle pieces.

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Old
01-29-2013, 12:54 PM
  #89
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Clitsome and a second round pick.

Just to hear Clitsome more on HNIC.

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01-29-2013, 01:04 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Hmm.. Interesting.

At this point unless Toronto can fill a big hole (like 1st line center, which is doubtful) or a couple of holes, I don't see how trading him would make sense.
What they need is a minute eating responsible defenseman.
I'm not looking to dump him at this moment, since its all knee jerk hyperbole at this point.

I'm looking to add, and I'll ponder Vishnovsky.

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01-29-2013, 01:07 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
Factor into the equation that the Leafs are also trying to learn a new system "on the fly" and it's virtually guaranteed that they will end up with another top-5 draft pick this summer.
So in 48 games, the Leafs will learn nothing?

I don't think top 5 is in the cards, since the Leafs will eventually adjust to the system.
This is a combination of new system, plus no training camp.

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01-29-2013, 01:17 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
And just how, pray tell, is Phaneuf the "most important player" on the Leafs?

A defensive game has never been Phaneuf's forte, and yet Carlyle is trying to use him in a "shut-down" role? Really.. the only thing that Phaneuf has successfully shut-down so far this season is his own offensive capability!

He's an offensive-minded defenceman.. not some stalwart on defence. Not to mention the fact that he's currently being grossly overplayed which has greatly exposed his limited defensive ability.

Phaneuf just doesn't fit into Carlyle's defence-first system because he's not a defence-first type of defenceman. For that reason (amongst others), he should be traded in order to take advantage of other teams' defensive needs.

This team is brutally awful right now and they don't really need Phaneuf on the team to continue being brutally awful. Trade him now for a better (and brighter)future in a few years!
Phaneuf was great in a shutdown role last year playing literally some of the toughest minutes in the entire league. Phaneuf being used in a shutdown role is not the problem, 27 year old career AHLer Kostka is.

People who think Phaneuf doesn't have a strong defensive game are ignorant. And trading him would be just plain stupid. What does the Leafs defense look like without him? Kostka, Gunnar, Liles, Gardiner, Komisarek and Franson? Yikes.

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01-29-2013, 02:04 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Ralphy View Post
Thank you. I'm a Leafs fan who loves having him on my team.
I am a Leafs hater who loves having him on your team.

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01-29-2013, 02:14 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
His value to the leafs is wasted since they will not be sniffing the post season for another year or two.

I would move him back home to EDM for a 1st.

Say what you will about Dion.

A Phaneuf and Schultz PP unit would be deadly with the OIL young guns.

I would take the 1st, realizing it could be 15th or higher. BUt hoping it lands in the new style lottery. EDM is on the bubble and I would take the risk.
I'm just wondering which part of "the Oilers would have zero interest in Dion Phaneuf" are you having trouble grasping.

This was discussed in another thread last week which I believe you were a part of and Oiler fans made their feelings clear and gave reasoning why.
If you had the opportunity to listen to local radio shows in EDM one of which is pretty much a mouthpiece for the Oilers, it would become very clear that the Oilers never have, do not and never will have interest in Phaneuf.

You know for a deal to work both sides have to have interest in what the other is offering.
Good luck in trying to find a dance partner if you want to move Phaneuf, it's my opinion based on some posts in this thread that Leafs fans will be disappointed with the return.


Last edited by gooilgo: 01-29-2013 at 02:16 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old
01-29-2013, 02:26 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iracundia View Post
Tor: Stastny+O'Brian

Col: Phaneuf+Bozak

Close to same cap hit and term for the principle pieces.
I might get trolled for liking this, but I actually wouldnt mind a trade like this, and the value seems to me to be pretty close

Stastny>Bozak
Phaneuf>O'Brian

As a leafs fan I would do this, it definitely hurts to lose Dion, but it finally gets us a #1 center that we have DESPERATELY needed for so long, O'Brien is a servicable D man that we can plug into the lineup, so we really dont lose too much as far as defensive depth is considered. Dropping Bozak in the trade doesnt hurt terribly as he was really a solid 3C on many teams and we were simply using him on the first line because he was the best of a bad scenario, he has chemistry with kessel, but his skill level just isnt that of a 1C, Stastny solves that problem for us as I am fairly certain he would become our undisputed #1C.

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01-29-2013, 02:28 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Phaneuf was great in a shutdown role last year playing literally some of the toughest minutes in the entire league. Phaneuf being used in a shutdown role is not the problem, 27 year old career AHLer Kostka is.

People who think Phaneuf doesn't have a strong defensive game are ignorant. And trading him would be just plain stupid. What does the Leafs defense look like without him? Kostka, Gunnar, Liles, Gardiner, Komisarek and Franson? Yikes.
LOL. How do you gauge that Phaneuf played some of the toughest minutes in the entire league last year?

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01-29-2013, 02:29 PM
  #97
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Bozak = Stastny
Phaneuf >>> O'Brien.

No thanks. People are too caught up on a players name.

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Old
01-29-2013, 02:35 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Bozak = Stastny
Phaneuf >>> O'Brien.

No thanks. People are too caught up on a players name.
.... yea. Every single one of Stastnys seasons except his injured 2008-2009 season has been higher than Bozaks career high... And even that injured season he was on pace for ~65 pts.

Yea. Bozak > Stastny...

People get too caught up with being ridiculously biased fans.

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01-29-2013, 02:45 PM
  #99
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.... yea. Every single one of Stastnys seasons except his injured 2008-2009 season has been higher than Bozaks career high... And even that injured season he was on pace for ~65 pts.

Yea. Bozak > Stastny...

People get too caught up with being ridiculously biased fans.
I usually dont post in agreement with someone, but this one I just felt the absolute need to. Way too many leafs fans (and not just leafs fans, hockey fans in general) just refuse to look at things without bias, I wont single any particular person out, as many of us, myself included, have been guilty at some point of being biased to a point of rediculousness. But sometimes we as hockey fans need to just take a step back and try to look at it from the other teams perspective without the home team bias.

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01-29-2013, 02:45 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by LEAFMAN99 View Post
I might get trolled for liking this, but I actually wouldnt mind a trade like this, and the value seems to me to be pretty close

Stastny>Bozak
Phaneuf>O'Brian

As a leafs fan I would do this, it definitely hurts to lose Dion, but it finally gets us a #1 center that we have DESPERATELY needed for so long, O'Brien is a servicable D man that we can plug into the lineup, so we really dont lose too much as far as defensive depth is considered. Dropping Bozak in the trade doesnt hurt terribly as he was really a solid 3C on many teams and we were simply using him on the first line because he was the best of a bad scenario, he has chemistry with kessel, but his skill level just isnt that of a 1C, Stastny solves that problem for us as I am fairly certain he would become our undisputed #1C.
Some avs fans might hate this but I would definitely do it. I'd also like it if Kadri were involed, obviously the avs would add as well. Maybe, Jones or Elliott?

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