HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Changing our draft strategy

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-29-2013, 01:17 PM
  #1
Beacon
Sent to HF Minors
 
Beacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 8,063
vCash: 500
Changing our draft strategy

Since 2004, our drafting has been great and we've achieved a lot of success. However, as many people here have pointed out, we've failed to land an offensive star player.

This was a necessary and a good strategy to take in 2004. Other land Lundqvist and Tyutin, our cupboard was empty and we needed get make sure that we draft guys who will turn into actual players. Taking chances just did not make any sense.

But the situation is different today. We have plenty of solid NHLers already.


CENTERS

NHL: Brad, Step and Boyle are 3 young enough to be here long-term.

PROSPECTS: It's safe to assume that Lindberg, Jean, Nieves or Foggy become the 4th center. Even Wiebe has potential if he gets a two-way contract.


LEFT WINGS

NHL: Hagelin is already in the NHL.

PROSPECTS: It's safe to assume that Kreider will make it, making it two LWs. I think it's safe to assume that at least one (probably 2) of our skill guys Miller, Hrivik or Bourque will make it as top-9 LWs, and and for the last line, one of the big guys Yogan, Wilson or Mash crack it. Worst case, we sign one 4th liner.


RIGHT WINGS

NHL: Nash and Callahan are already great top-6 guys.

PROSPECTS: It's safe to assume that one of Fasth, Thomas or St. Croix make it as a top-9 guy. Then there are guys like Ferriero and McColgan, or alternatively, signing a 4th liner can't be that tough.


DEFENSE

NHL: McDonagh, Staal, Girardi and Del Zotto are great top-4. Stralman is useful as well. Bickel can be a #7. That's 6 guys.

PROSPECTS: McIlrath will probably make it. I assume so will one of Skjei, Noreau or Andersson. That's more than enough defensemen.


CONCLUSION

Our depth isn't a problem. Sure, I'll take another Anisimov or another Pyatt, but that just isn't what the team is desperate for. Once we lose Gaborik, scoring will become an issue once again. We need a quality offensive winger. We need someone like Giroux.

Everyone here knows that you can't expect the team to draft superstars at #25. However, what you can do is go for the high-risk, high-return guys. Guys who have a 50-75% chance of not making the NHL obviously will not go in the top-5 because teams can draft safe players with first line potential in those spots.

However, by the time you get to the end of the first round, the prospect only has a 40% chance of making the NHL, with safe prospects having a higher percentage and risky prospects lower. So instead of having a 50-50 prospect with limited potential, why can't we draft someone who is a 25-75 prospect with a much higher potential?

Your average kid drafted in the second round has a 20% shot of making the NHL, while a high-risk, high-return prospect has maybe a 10-12% chance. But which strategy makes more sense for us?

Sure, you don't want to go for that when the cupboard is empty, but it most certainly isn't empty right now. We can afford to swing for the fences in the next couple of drafts.

The response to this is that we need a constant in-flow of youth for the cap. Ok, I agree and that's what our current prospects will do. However, when the team is lacking top-end talent, they inevitably wind up trading the young, inexpensive guys for expensive talent. See: Nash for 3 players and 3 draft picks from the top 2 rounds (including the Erixon trade in this since it was also an attempt to get top-end talent). Trading away so many assets to get a guy making almost $8 is not exactly a way to keep our cap costs low.

Now imagine if we have to do the same to replace Gaborik. Imagine if we have to trade away Kreider, Lindberg, McIlrath and a #1 to replace Gabby. How great would that be for our future? How great would that be for our cap?

We are better off swinging and missing on our draft picks than doing this.

In 2013 in particular, we don't have a first, so let's draft another Thomas in the second, another Bourque in the 3rd, another St. Croix in the 4th, another Horak in the 5th, another Fasth in the 6th (and maybe a couple of defensemen with the extra picks since they take long to develop and who knows what the future holds). Sure, most of the draft picks won't work out, but if we get a home run with just one, it will be a game-breaker for us.

Beacon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:27 PM
  #2
ecemleafs
Registered User
 
ecemleafs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 9,968
vCash: 500
i think we took less risk on players since the lockout because we had no depth and very few prospects that u cud consider to be NHL potential since we missed on virtually every pick from the mid 90s til 2004. with a far more stable organization and one with a good amount of depth i think we should be taking a bit more risk on creative skill players that might have other flaws needed to be corrected to be an impact NHL player.

ecemleafs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:30 PM
  #3
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,779
vCash: 500
Awards:
Draft strategy: take the best player available.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:33 PM
  #4
Beacon
Sent to HF Minors
 
Beacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 8,063
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Draft strategy: take the best player available.
The question is what's better: a player who has a 75% chance of becoming another Taylor Pyatt, a player who has a 50-50 chance of becoming another Callahan or a player who has a 25% chance of becoming Giroux?

Beacon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:34 PM
  #5
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,626
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Draft strategy: take the best player available.
It sounds risky.

Brian Boyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:37 PM
  #6
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,626
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
The question is what's better: a player who has a 75% chance of becoming another Taylor Pyatt, a player who has a 50-50 chance of becoming another Callahan or a player who has a 25% chance of becoming Giroux?
Easy.


Brian Boyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:37 PM
  #7
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
In a normal draft...better off drafting a player that may never play in the NHL, than drafting a player who has a higher probability of playing in the NHL, even as a 3rd-4th line player is not at all a good strategy. And, they probably won't do it in the first round. It's not what Clark and Gorton have done recently.

We don't have a first round pick in June. We have a 2nd and three 3rds(?).

It's VERY important to pull out one NHL player per draft.

This June, I agree in this case. With no first round pick, unless they pull a deal involving Gaborik at the draft, taking a chance with the 2nd round pick on a high skill player would be a good idea.

Though, I differ in what position to add that skill to. I'd like to see a real offensive defenseman, that can skate the puck, shoot the puck, and be a consistent offensive threat from the back end. It's something we haven't had since 2004. And it could add a completely new dimension to our attack and transition game.

Imagine what this team would look like right now had we landed Schultz?

We NEED that kind of threat from the back end.

I like our crop of forwards on the way. Kreider, Miller, Fast, Lindberg, Nieves, St. Croix, Hrivik, Jean. Really good players and skill level in there.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:38 PM
  #8
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,035
vCash: 500
The Rangers are all about taking players who they see making the NHL. That gives them many options and many trade chips (as we just saw with the Nash trade). Due to the fact that they will practically never draft in the top-10, I think it's a good philosophy. Keep the price of the lower line players down by integrating youth and go out and get that key UFA to balance the line-up.

The Rangers will always be involved in the UFA process.

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:41 PM
  #9
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
The question is what's better: a player who has a 75% chance of becoming another Taylor Pyatt, a player who has a 50-50 chance of becoming another Callahan or a player who has a 25% chance of becoming Giroux?
It's always better to come away with an NHL player. Plain and simple.

You can rant about not drafting our own Nash or Giroux. But the Rangers come away with players who can fill an NHL roster and contribute. And if a trade for a Nash arises, they have the depth to make that deal and continue with the process.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:41 PM
  #10
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
In a normal draft...better off drafting a player that may never play in the NHL, than drafting a player who has a higher probability of playing in the NHL, even as a 3rd-4th line player is not at all a good strategy. And, they probably won't do it in the first round. It's not what Clark and Gorton have done recently.

We don't have a first round pick in June. We have a 2nd and three 3rds(?).

It's VERY important to pull out one NHL player per draft.

This June, I agree in this case. With no first round pick, unless they pull a deal involving Gaborik at the draft, taking a chance with the 2nd round pick on a high skill player would be a good idea.

Though, I differ in what position to add that skill to. I'd like to see a real offensive defenseman, that can skate the puck, shoot the puck, and be a consistent offensive threat from the back end. It's something we haven't had since 2004. And it could add a completely new dimension to our attack and transition game.

Imagine what this team would look like right now had we landed Schultz?

We NEED that kind of threat from the back end.

I like our crop of forwards on the way. Kreider, Miller, Fast, Lindberg, Nieves, St. Croix, Hrivik, Jean. Really good players and skill level in there.
I am not sure that is the better way to go. Is it better to get a defenseman who can actually play DEFENSE at the NHL level and hope he develops that offensive game? Or is it enough to possibly get a player who may not skate one shift due to his defensive deficiencies?

I would rather draft (4) Skjei/Staal/McDonagh and be sure they can make the NHL due to their defense and hope their offensive games develop.

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:43 PM
  #11
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I am not sure that is the better way to go. Is it better to get a defenseman who can actually play DEFENSE at the NHL level and hope he develops that offensive game? Or is it enough to possibly get a player who may not skate one shift due to his defensive deficiencies?

I would rather draft (4) Skjei/Staal/McDonagh and be sure they can make the NHL due to their defense and hope their offensive games develop.
Rangers have a defense corp that can play defense.

McDonagh, Staal, Girardi, Del Zotto, with Skjei (who is going to be very good), and McIlrath...

What they don't have is any consistent offensive threat.

Every Stanley Cup champion that I can recall off the top of my head in the last 20+ years had one.

Also, one reason our PP sucks, and have trouble consistently sustaining an attack is because we have no real threat from the back end.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:43 PM
  #12
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,779
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
The question is what's better: a player who has a 75% chance of becoming another Taylor Pyatt, a player who has a 50-50 chance of becoming another Callahan or a player who has a 25% chance of becoming Giroux?
Taking the best player available should answer that question on its own.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:46 PM
  #13
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Rangers have a defense corp that can play defense.

McDonagh, Staal, Girardi, Del Zotto, with Skjei (who is going to be very good), and McIlrath...

What they don't have is any consistent offensive threat.

Every Stanley Cup champion that I can recall off the top of my head in the last 20+ years had one.
Of course I agree with you. But the fact of the matter is that drafting an offensive defenseman is often times more difficult. Teams put a premium on that offense from the back-end which means they are taken higher than other types of players. On top of that, they play a position, defense, where their main trait may not be defense. For some teams that's ok because of the way they play. For the Rangers, at least the past couple of years, that won't get that player any playing time.

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:47 PM
  #14
Boom Boom Geoffrion*
CarciLOL
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NYC
Country: Greece
Posts: 7,553
vCash: 500
I prefer the OP's old username.

Old things rock. Except for Jason Arnott. **** that noise.

Boom Boom Geoffrion* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:48 PM
  #15
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,248
vCash: 500
I will start by saying that I agree that the Rangers are at a stage where they should be taking some more risks.

But I don't believe the risks should correlate directly to size & mental makeup but rather to defensive play and quality of competition.

Players like Thomas, St Croix, etc are classified as "high risk/reward". What is the realistic breakdown of what that means? Once every 20 years you may get St Louis or Giroux, Briere once every decade; if you get PAP you're doing well and JAM is about average.

Good players, no doubt. Useful. But aside from St Louis & Giroux not anyone who will be replacing Gabby or who you build a team around.

On the flip side, if*the player with "size" or who "lacks high end skill" can develop other areas of their game they will be infinitely more valuable than the flawed (size, defensive play, physicality) offensive perimeter dynamo.

Players like the aforementioned Briere, JAM, PAP who have top-flite talent but come with other deficiencies are available on the trade and FA market each summer. Alex Semin is a top-10 NHL talent on offensive game alone. He was available this summer for only a one year commitment.

The players that rarely, if ever, become available via trade or FA are the obvious superstars (which the NYR will ne'er be able to draft) and the players who combine defensive play, leadership, and physicality with top-6 skill. The rare exception being a guy like Mike Richards but think him, Kesler, Lucic, Backes, Callahan, Dustin Brown, TJ Oshie, Ryan O'Reilly, Morrow, etc.

The odds of that happening are admittedly slim, but it can be worth taking the chance because there is almost no opportunity to acquire those players otherwise. Not to mention if they don't reach their potential they still become valuable
NHL assets.

__________________
"Here we can see the agression of american people. They love fighting and guns. when they wont win they try to kill us all." -HalfOfFame
HatTrick Swayze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:49 PM
  #16
Boom Boom Geoffrion*
CarciLOL
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NYC
Country: Greece
Posts: 7,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Taking the best player available should answer that question on its own.
BPA is what most successful teams do in various sports. We shouldn't stray. Especially when you consider how long it takes for players to develop into every day players, and how quickly rosters turn over.

Boom Boom Geoffrion* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:49 PM
  #17
KingWantsCup
Super Saiyan Hank
 
KingWantsCup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,291
vCash: 50
I want high risk high reward drafting. No more D-men in the first round for a long time. I will bang my head through a wall if we draft another D-man in the first round this year. It's super rare to get a Giroux level player late, but since the team is competitive now this is a good time to roll the dice on maybe an undersized guy with very high potential like Giroux had.

Man we ****ed the '06 draft up so bad.

KingWantsCup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:51 PM
  #18
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,779
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
I want high risk high reward drafting. No more D-men in the first round for a long time. I will bang my head through a wall if we draft another D-man in the first round this year. I would love to draft an elite center late like Giroux.
Again, take the BPA. They have needs in all areas even on defense.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:53 PM
  #19
dmjt4160
Registered User
 
dmjt4160's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,113
vCash: 1004
Just draft a 35g-40a winger in the second round, thats what I'd do

dmjt4160 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:56 PM
  #20
Capitain Midnight
Trust me, I'm a doc
 
Capitain Midnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United Nations
Posts: 629
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
I would love to draft an elite center late like Giroux.
Yup, none of the other teams are thinking that....just take the best player available and stock pile talent. That is what drafting is about.

Capitain Midnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:56 PM
  #21
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Of course I agree with you. But the fact of the matter is that drafting an offensive defenseman is often times more difficult. Teams put a premium on that offense from the back-end which means they are taken higher than other types of players. On top of that, they play a position, defense, where their main trait may not be defense. For some teams that's ok because of the way they play. For the Rangers, at least the past couple of years, that won't get that player any playing time.
Who is to say that this player can't play adequately on the defensive side of the puck?

What if he's more positionally sound then anything else? If he isn't directly hurting the team there, fine. And chances are if he has the puck you wouldn't have to worry about it anyway, the beauty of a good transition game.

They ARE a premium, but it doesn't mean they don't come from later then the first round.

There will be guys like that available in this draft. And i already suggested one of them. Will Butcher for example, has a ton of potential. That's just an example.

We are not talking about a 1st round pick here. Rangers have taken some gambles with their 2nd round picks.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:56 PM
  #22
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
I want high risk high reward drafting. No more D-men in the first round for a long time. I will bang my head through a wall if we draft another D-man in the first round this year. It's super rare to get a Giroux level player late, but since the team is competitive now this is a good time to roll the dice on maybe an undersized guy with very high potential like Giroux had.

Man we ****ed the '06 draft up so bad.
Staal and Girardi are UFA's in the near future. What happens if either or both walk? Are you going to lean THAT heavily on McIlrath and Skjei at that point?

The Rangers defensive depth is actually piss poor right now.

McIlrath
Noreau
Skjei

That's pretty much it...

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:58 PM
  #23
Dorado*
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brooklyn ,USA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,819
vCash: 500
The Jessiman and Montoya picks were the two bad ones as D Mac as controversial as it is on here as tremendous character and at some point will be an NHL d man . He's too athletic , too big and strong and too smart and teachable not to be . Not That I don't lament picking Tarasenko or Fowler who are already NHL talent and were at draft day but D Mack will be a Ranger eventually

Dorado* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:59 PM
  #24
mschmidt64
Registered User
 
mschmidt64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 828
vCash: 500
Given the Rangers market advantage and lure for drawing big name FA's, I think their strategy of drafting building blocks and then sprinkling in high profile FA's on top is not a bad strategy.

The problem is more along the lines of Brad Richards being locked into a contract until he's 54. If you're going to give Sidney Crosby or Steven Stamkos that deal, it's another thing.

mschmidt64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 02:00 PM
  #25
bogans
Registered User
 
bogans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philly
Country: United States
Posts: 635
vCash: 500
I would just take the prettiest guy, look at how well it worked out in Lundqvist's case.

bogans is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:59 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.