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Time to start Ellis - Take 2

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01-28-2013, 10:06 PM
  #1
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Time to start Ellis - Take 2

It's time to start playing Ellis equal to Cam's time at least. You hear the word accountable get thrown around over and over, but when is anyone going to put it into action. He is terrible right now, and yeah he makes some good saves, but a lot of bad ones. Its time to stop living in 06 and give someone a chance, just like he got.

Discuss~

inb4 blaming it on defense. Ellis played behind the same defense, and without Faulk for half a game. What is it 16 now? All 16 are the D's fault??


Last edited by slocal: 01-29-2013 at 12:13 AM. Reason: removed mod critique
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01-28-2013, 10:12 PM
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Anton H Christ
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I'm all about 50/50 until can gets back in the saddle or ellis proves that he is legit, in which case keep the 50/50.

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01-28-2013, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Anton H Christ View Post
I'm all about 50/50 until can gets back in the saddle or ellis proves that he is legit, in which case keep the 50/50.
I think 50/50 would be fair. It would make Ward accountable while still providing either one a chance to shine. Ellis seemed very intelligent and relaxed on the ice and in his postgame interview. Ward always seems stressed out on the ice and flops all over.

Also sidebar: Are those two pad stacks intentional? It seems like he just accidentally ends up making a move to soon and sporadically rolls into those.

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01-28-2013, 10:27 PM
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If we are going to allow those kinds of chances- screen shots and through the crease passes and tap ins and slow as **** players getting clear breakaways- we could start anybody short of a prime Hasek and it wouldn't make a difference.

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01-28-2013, 10:53 PM
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Ellis until he deserves to leave the nets. Meritocracy doesn't stop at the position. If he was Justin Peters instead of Cam Ward, he would have been waived by now. Not getting crazy, because I know for a fact that Cam will get back on track. He's too good not to figure it out. He has a history of great goaltending. However, a history does nothing for us in the present if he's sucking wind. Dan Ellis has been sharp. Give Ward something to think about.

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01-28-2013, 10:56 PM
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Ellis until he deserves to leave the nets. Meritocracy doesn't stop at the position. If he was Justin Peters instead of Cam Ward, he would have been waived by now. Not getting crazy, because I know for a fact that Cam will get back on track. He's too good not to figure it out. He has a history of great goaltending. However, a history does nothing for us in the present if he's sucking wind. Dan Ellis has been sharp. Give Ward something to think about.
this

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01-28-2013, 10:57 PM
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Do we really need to do this again?

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01-28-2013, 10:59 PM
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Do we really need to do this again?
My thoughts exactly. The thread was locked 2 days ago. Talk about it in the postgame. It doesn't need it's own thread imo.

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01-28-2013, 11:00 PM
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No......

What happens when Ellis gives up four goals? It's gonna happen, hell it might even happen his next start. Are we gonna have a "should have started ward" thread?

I'm not making excuses Ward hasn't been good but we NEED him to be because Ellis wouldn't get the job done in the long run. He hasn't in 4 years.


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01-28-2013, 11:09 PM
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the thread was closed because people kept going off topic and making personal insults and accusations instead of talking about goaltending.

a goalie situation like this does deserve it's own thread

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01-28-2013, 11:17 PM
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And you dont think this wont?

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01-28-2013, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Brock Anton View Post
Do we really need to do this again?
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Originally Posted by Novacane View Post
My thoughts exactly. The thread was locked 2 days ago. Talk about it in the postgame. It doesn't need it's own thread imo.
What's great about forums is that if you don't want to read a thread you simply don't have to click on it. So, my advice to you is to not click on this thread, put on your cam ward jersey from 06, stare at your ward poster on the wall, and eat a dollar hotdog.

Just because we do not agree with your opinion doesn't give you the right to prevent us from talking about our opinions. I do not see what is so radical about our opinion based on what is going on. I saw alot of people talking about ward tonight on the GDT and thought it is worth a discussion here. Corvo has a thread, Semin has a thread, how can a goaltender not be important enough to have a thread??

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01-28-2013, 11:19 PM
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No......

What happens when Ellis gives up four goals? It's gonna happen, hell it might even happen his next start. Are we gonna have a "should have started ward" thread?

I'm not making excuses Ward hasn't been good but we NEED him to be because Ellis wouldn't get the job done in the long run. He hasn't in 4 years.
it's funny how people talk about cam ward like he's always going to be at the same level he was before and never change. there is going to be come a year when he doesn't perform at the same level he has in previous years. It may not be this year, but right now it sure looks like it. With such a short season we need to be playing who's hot. Give Ellis much more chances than it seems like he's getting now. If it motivates Ward and he steps up, then great.

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01-28-2013, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by OntarioFisherman View Post
What's great about forums is that if you don't want to read a thread you simply don't have to click on it. So, my advice to you is to not click on this thread, put on your cam ward jersey from 06, stare at your ward poster on the wall, and eat a dollar hotdog.

Just because we do not agree with your opinion doesn't give you the right to prevent us from talking about our opinions. I do not see what is so radical about our opinion based on what is going on. I saw alot of people talking about ward tonight on the GDT and thought it is worth a discussion here. Corvo has a thread, Semin has a thread, how can a goaltender not be important enough to have a thread??
That's why.

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01-28-2013, 11:21 PM
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I'm taking both sides. I really wish Cam had worked harder to see the Chara wrister from the point, but aside from that, can you really fault him on any of the Bruins goals? Marchand's shorty was some of the worst defense of all time, matched only by Horton's goal. Seriously, nobody is stopping either of those two, even Dan Ellis. Throw in the Krejci goal after we failed to clear 23 times and I'm not sure how much more Cam could have done. Plus, he clearly got better as the game went along. He was very sharp in the second when the Bruins ran the breakaway drill for a few minutes and he robbed Horton in the third to keep it tied.

The second and third periods were the Cam we need.

Having said that, we needed him to be better in the first, but I think he's getting closer.

I don't mind giving Ellis one of every four or so, but Cam needs to play.

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01-28-2013, 11:28 PM
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The only way I can condone starting Ellis over Ward is if you are basing it off of who has game experience this year. Ward needs a few games to get his form back. This was his 4th game. I don't think we should expect him to be in midseason form yet. If you want to cite that as a reason to start Ellis over Ward right now, be my guest. But declaring Ward the backup for the season is crazy and shortsighted.

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01-29-2013, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lennay Kekua View Post
the thread was closed because people kept going off topic and making personal insults and accusations instead of talking about goaltending.

a goalie situation like this does deserve it's own thread
Actually it was closed because the OP flamed others when they disagreed with their opinion, in essence making it nothing short of a troll thread.

The shots at individuals were dealt with as long as the thread stayed on track and did not degenerate, which it inevitably did.

This thread is going to be walking a tight line, if things get trollish again it's closed again.

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01-29-2013, 12:36 AM
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I'm taking both sides. I really wish Cam had worked harder to see the Chara wrister from the point, but aside from that, can you really fault him on any of the Bruins goals? Marchand's shorty was some of the worst defense of all time, matched only by Horton's goal. Seriously, nobody is stopping either of those two, even Dan Ellis. Throw in the Krejci goal after we failed to clear 23 times and I'm not sure how much more Cam could have done. Plus, he clearly got better as the game went along. He was very sharp in the second when the Bruins ran the breakaway drill for a few minutes and he robbed Horton in the third to keep it tied.

The second and third periods were the Cam we need.

Having said that, we needed him to be better in the first, but I think he's getting closer.

I don't mind giving Ellis one of every four or so, but Cam needs to play.

Pretty much this. Was Ward at his best? No, because we've seen his best. His best is nigh unbeatable. But he made some CRUCIAL stops to keep the score close throughout the night, including multiple oddman rushes and breakaways. But if the team is going to be giving up chances like that (and the goals that were let in) on a consistent basis, it won't matter who we have in net, Ellis or otherwise.

Do I wish Ward would have stopped stacking the pads all night? Yes, especially after Horton beat him cleanly. But if that's what Ward feels he needs to do to overcome the clear defensive breakdowns, that's what he feels needs to be done.

It's clear that's what happened, especially on the last goal. Ward was already beat cleanly from a cross-ice one-timer from the left for the first goal of the night. So when the same play sets up for the last goal, Ward does a good job of getting over and preventing the goal. It's not his fault the defense went ahead and let the same pass happen not 10 seconds later on the opposite side.

Frankly, I'd worry about fixing the defensive breakdowns than worrying about whether Ellis is getting cheated out of starts. Ellis is the backup, Ward is the starter. Ellis will get starts, but I'm sure he realizes his job is to be the backup. That's what he signed up for.

Folks should just get used to Ward being the starter, because frankly, we have no one in the pipe that could possibly replace him.

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01-29-2013, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Pretty much this. Was Ward at his best? No, because we've seen his best. His best is nigh unbeatable. But he made some CRUCIAL stops to keep the score close throughout the night, including multiple oddman rushes and breakaways. But if the team is going to be giving up chances like that (and the goals that were let in) on a consistent basis, it won't matter who we have in net, Ellis or otherwise.

Do I wish Ward would have stopped stacking the pads all night? Yes, especially after Horton beat him cleanly. But if that's what Ward feels he needs to do to overcome the clear defensive breakdowns, that's what he feels needs to be done.

It's clear that's what happened, especially on the last goal. Ward was already beat cleanly from a cross-ice one-timer from the left for the first goal of the night. So when the same play sets up for the last goal, Ward does a good job of getting over and preventing the goal. It's not his fault the defense went ahead and let the same pass happen not 10 seconds later on the opposite side.

Frankly, I'd worry about fixing the defensive breakdowns than worrying about whether Ellis is getting cheated out of starts. Ellis is the backup, Ward is the starter. Ellis will get starts, but I'm sure he realizes his job is to be the backup. That's what he signed up for.

Folks should just get used to Ward being the starter, because frankly, we have no one in the pipe that could possibly replace him.
perfectly said. It's not like the Canes have a goalie of the future coming anytime soon.

Ellis will get his starts, he's likely to play against Philly on Saturday... even if he was the starter the rest of the way, Ward would still play half the games due to the short season..

I realize the urgency is to win now but the defense is a bigger problem then the goaltending.

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01-29-2013, 05:02 AM
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Bottom line is you've gotta play the guy who gives you the best shot at winning. And right now that guy is Dan Ellis. I was concerned not to see more of our players finding somewhere to play during the lockout and the rust is evident in many. Ellis is game-ready and right now he's playing better than Cam Ward. Let Ward have a start here and there and get back in the swing of things in scrimmages. Can't keep playing the guy who's helping cost us games saying he just needs to get back into it. The season is too short and we're throwing away points.

We finally have a competent backup, why are so many against playing him? I'm as big a fan of Ward as the next caniac but he's not God. He's struggling right now and in the interest of the team we need to go with the guy who's playing better.

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01-29-2013, 06:31 AM
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Have 3 in 4 coming up. Honestly it would be the perfect time to go Ellis - Ward - Ellis for that stretch and see what we can come up with results wise. I don't think Ward's the problem, but he's an example of what the problem is right now. Cardiac's spot on when he said not enough of our guys went out there and played elsewhere during the lockout. It's not affecting some of the forwards (namely the Staals and Skinner) negatively nearly as much as it's negatively effecting Ward and basically every dman sans Faulk and Joni.

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01-29-2013, 08:31 AM
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Well.... Cam is playing better than he did in the first 2 games of the season. Without some actually pretty decent saves last night, we get run out of the building yet again...

But with that said, he's still playing horribly inconsistent. He'll make some really good saves on chances he probably shouldn't get, and then he'll let in something stupid like the 3rd goal last night. But then again, thats the way he's been ever since 2009. Not saying thats good or bad, but its just him. At least, thats the regular season version of him. When we get late in the game or in the playoffs, he does have that extra level he takes it to that not many other goalies do have, and thats why he'll continue to be our goalie until he retires. Yeah, it might be worth it to give Ellis a few extra starts early on (until Cam gets his head on straight... which we should have done anyway, as Ellis was already up to game speed having played in the AHL) but if we are not starting Cam nightly by the end of the season, something will have gone horribly wrong.

But goalie isn't our biggest worry right now. Our defense is atrocious. I don't know what we can do, but something needs to change. We can't be begging fans to come watch this team when we have a defense like that on the ice. When we have to resort to dressing BOTH Corvo and Sanguinetti in a given game, sticking them on the same pairing, your defense is worse than imaginable. Unfortunately, looking at the last 2 defensive moves that JR has made, I have zero faith that this will be addressed. Bringing in Kaberle and Corvo in back to back seasons with no other defensive help is... inexcusable.

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01-29-2013, 01:55 PM
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story of the night

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01-29-2013, 02:38 PM
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Yeah, that goal was the story of the night. Horton walks our supposed best defensive forward and our supposed best defensive-minded defenseman, leaving Ward to face the shot alone....like he did multiple times that night.

Do yourself a favor and check out Tarheel's subjective +/- ratings. He does a great job of breaking down goals for and against.

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01-29-2013, 02:43 PM
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I just can't wrap my mind around, regardless of how bad the defense was, how that move was in any way excusable to do ONCE, let alone twice against the same player leading to the two most important goals of the game. I don't care if it was in the shootout where it's just one on goaltender, you just can't drop like that in the NHL and give guys who can elevate the puck past a peewee level the top half of the net to shoot at. I don't care how much Cam-guzzling goes on, those two plays did a huge part in losing the game for us. Bottom line.

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