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So.. What are you expecting? (Playoff / Bubble / Tank)

View Poll Results: Expect
Playoff Team (1-8) 3 3.41%
Bubble Team (9 - 10) 31 35.23%
Tank Team (Top 3 - 5 pick) 54 61.36%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:02 AM
  #51
Lonewolfe2015
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
I've said it before... We lost out on Seguin/Hall by over achieving in 2009, without that we would not have Landeskog so 'fine'. But this team needs at least one more top 5 pick.
Getting into the playoffs was not a mistake. The best thing for a young team is playoff experience.

The problem here is that we've got a young team that's supposed to be together for the next 5 years that isn't in playoff contention and doesn't appear to be. While a large part is the loss of our top line, we should have the depth to remain competitive still, but it's not showing.

I blame three specific areas for that, all but one were glaringly obvious, the other was unfortunate and followed the Avs trend of stupid things happening to us.

First, Sacco. We all knew he was a weakness but some willingly overlooked it. I myself felt optimistic he could pull things together with a new assistant staff...

Second, Defense. We all knew that we needed another EJ, even Sherman. We just couldn't accommodate the positional need and it is hurting us badly.

Third, PK. The moment we lost McClement, management screwed up. He should not have been allowed to leave, it will remain one of the great mysteries as to how he left when we supposedly offer more money than Toronto and more term. Then Sherman let O'Reilly sit and here we are with him unsigned.

Our PK went from outstanding with Winnik, McClement, O'Reilly and Landeskog as #1 and #2, to having not a single one of them in the lineup. Guys like Mitchell, McLeod and McGinn are PKing, roles they should only be used in as a last resort.

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:02 AM
  #52
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I feel like a change in coaches would do Statz some good. He has not seemed to want to play hard for Sacco since forever. Really feels like Statz is not sold on how Sacco handles players and even less sold with his "system".

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01-29-2013, 11:29 AM
  #53
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I felt we had 7th or 8th spot potential over the summer but with the lockout and no training camp that shifted them to a high half bubble team. Now with O'Reilly missing, Downie out for the season, and Landy's status up in the air I think we're on the bottom half of a bubble team.

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01-29-2013, 11:41 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Second, Defense. We all knew that we needed another EJ, even Sherman. We just couldn't accommodate the positional need and it is hurting us badly.
We don't need another EJ, we need another Liles. Just...SOMEONE who can move the puck competently while not being a complete embarrassment in the defensive zone. We're not getting another EJ. At this point we just need more balance. Right now it's EJ and a bunch of brick walls on skates. Of those I don't mind us keeping O'Byrne and Wilson, but the rest have got to go.

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01-29-2013, 11:45 AM
  #55
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We should have a "Voted Off The Island" thread, where we make arguments for getting rid of players we don't want. Not a trade thread, as we wouldn't entertain trade options, just a thread where we can all vent our frustrations with players, and vote them off the island. Coaches and management, too, for that matter.

TTOTM -- Throw Them Off The Mountain

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01-29-2013, 11:47 AM
  #56
Lonewolfe2015
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
We don't need another EJ, we need another Liles. Just...SOMEONE who can move the puck competently while not being a complete embarrassment in the defensive zone. We're not getting another EJ. At this point we just need more balance. Right now it's EJ and a bunch of brick walls on skates. Of those I don't mind us keeping O'Byrne and Wilson, but the rest have got to go.
All I meant by that was another top pairing young defender.

Although, I'd gladly sign Streit this offseason, unfortunately I doubt he goes anywhere but a contender or NYI.

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01-29-2013, 11:56 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Getting into the playoffs was not a mistake. The best thing for a young team is playoff experience.

The problem here is that we've got a young team that's supposed to be together for the next 5 years that isn't in playoff contention and doesn't appear to be. While a large part is the loss of our top line, we should have the depth to remain competitive still, but it's not showing.

I blame three specific areas for that, all but one were glaringly obvious, the other was unfortunate and followed the Avs trend of stupid things happening to us.

First, Sacco. We all knew he was a weakness but some willingly overlooked it. I myself felt optimistic he could pull things together with a new assistant staff...

Second, Defense. We all knew that we needed another EJ, even Sherman. We just couldn't accommodate the positional need and it is hurting us badly.

Third, PK. The moment we lost McClement, management screwed up. He should not have been allowed to leave, it will remain one of the great mysteries as to how he left when we supposedly offer more money than Toronto and more term. Then Sherman let O'Reilly sit and here we are with him unsigned.

Our PK went from outstanding with Winnik, McClement, O'Reilly and Landeskog as #1 and #2, to having not a single one of them in the lineup. Guys like Mitchell, McLeod and McGinn are PKing, roles they should only be used in as a last resort.
I agree that getting into the Playoffs was not a mistake but we can't have both, and I don't see us filling out this team without another high end draft pick.

I think most people expected our PK to suffer but not this badly, I mean our defense is still there. How is it the Oilers are overpowering us down low? Everyone besides Duchy, EJ, Wilson, Landeskog (In the lineup) and oddly enough Hunwick... Is playing **** defense.

I have to say though... Mitchell has been at least good on the PK and as a third line center. His advanced stats pointing toward him driving puck possession are showing through.

How many 5v5 goals have we allowed total? 2? lol

Btw... I don't mind Duchy on the PK, he deserves that extra responsibility because of how hes playing away from the puck. Something tells me that's something he wants as well. He played on the PK quite a bit over his junior career. Obviously I would rather he was not on the #1 PK unit though.

Landeskog, O'Reilly, Duchy and... ??? Mitchell??? That would at least be adequate if two of those guys were not out of the lineup. McLeod on the PK is horrible, he stands in the middle of the ice and glares at people, and that's about it. More than once hes basically ended up standing shoulder to shoulder with whoever is out there with him.

(I wouldn't mind seeing Olver on the PK over McLeod, guys that can actually anticipate and react to the other teams players.)

I can say this... as much as I am ok with trading a center for a #2 to play with EJ. I wonder which would help more right now? O'Reilly or a #2 defender? Like I said... How many 5v5 goals have we let in?


Last edited by CobraAcesS: 01-29-2013 at 12:02 PM.
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Old
01-29-2013, 12:04 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Landeskog, O'Reilly, Duchy and... ??? Mitchell??? That would at least be adequate if two of those guys were not out of the lineup. McLeod on the PK is horrible, he stands in the middle of the ice and glares at people, and that's about it. More than once hes basically ended up standing shoulder to shoulder with whoever is out there with him.

(I wouldn't mind seeing Olver on the PK over McLeod, guys that can actually anticipate and react to the other teams players.)
The problem with that is we'd be using our best players for the PK and at our current rate that means they'll get half of their TOI per game on the PK. We can't score 5 on 5 if they're playing 4 on 5 all the time.

That is a great plan for a more disciplined team, but not one such as ours imo.

Meanwhile, Duchy should be the guy that attacks after a PK, when the other team's best players are tired. Stastny, O'Reilly, Landeskog & ???!!! should be the top lines, with our third consisting of whomever.

Unfortunately 1/2 of those players aren't playing and 1/4 of them don't exist outside of being a figment of my imagination.

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01-29-2013, 12:07 PM
  #59
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The problem with that is we'd be using our best players for the PK and at our current rate that means they'll get half of their TOI per game on the PK. We can't score 5 on 5 if they're playing 4 on 5 all the time.

That is a great plan for a more disciplined team, but not one such as ours imo.

Meanwhile, Duchy should be the guy that attacks after a PK, when the other team's best players are tired. Stastny, O'Reilly, Landeskog & ???!!! should be the top lines, with our third consisting of whomever.

Unfortunately 1/2 of those players aren't playing and 1/4 of them don't exist outside of being a figment of my imagination.
I edited my last post, what would you rather have right now? O'Reilly or a #2 D?

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01-29-2013, 12:10 PM
  #60
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I edited my last post, what would you rather have right now? O'Reilly or a #2 D?
O'Reilly.

I'd elaborate (but my lunch time is up!).

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01-29-2013, 12:14 PM
  #61
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O'Reilly.

I'd elaborate (but my lunch time is up!).
Agreed.

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01-29-2013, 12:14 PM
  #62
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O'Reilly is probably going to be a better player than any D we can trade him for right now.

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01-29-2013, 12:22 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
I've said it before... We lost out on Seguin/Hall by over achieving in 2009, without that we would not have Landeskog so 'fine'. But this team needs at least one more top 5 pick.

We cannot get both a top pairing defender and a top line winger by trading one of our centers. We can only trade for one of those guys...

I've also been a huge defender of Stastny over the last couple of years, but I am so done with him. Hes gotten too comfortable and it's obvious. Even with O'Reilly holding out, I hope they sign him and trade Stastny at this point. That is the first time I've said that...

On a positive note... McGinn - Duchene- Parenteau looked good as a line. That line, Varly, EJ, and Wilson were our only bright spots on the team. One line and one defensive pairing isn't enough. Also anyone who blames any of our losses on Varly at all, didn't watch the games. I haven't seen our defense be so weak in front of the net, and let our goalie hang out to dry this badly. Pathetic...

Jones needs to be traded like yesterday, and with a vengeance. Hopefully someone will give us a 1st for him at the deadline.
Yeah Staz should be traded for a good D.
Now Jones, with his big contract... I don`t know if any team would be interested. Honestly 4 million is a lot for what he brings...

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01-29-2013, 12:24 PM
  #64
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Bring on the tank

Assumng it's Sacco in charge and Landeskog is out for more than 5-10 games.

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01-29-2013, 12:41 PM
  #65
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All I meant by that was another top pairing young defender.

Although, I'd gladly sign Streit this offseason, unfortunately I doubt he goes anywhere but a contender or NYI.
I'd certainly like the money we're using on Hejda to be used on a guy like him instead, even with the obvious shortcomings in his defensive game. I agree w/Dater that EJ would excel with an offensive-minded partner, not a defensive-minded one.

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01-29-2013, 12:59 PM
  #66
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I wouldn't mind tanking for Jones.

But people have to realize that Jones just isn't going to step into the lineup next year and make this team a contender.

He shouldn't be rushed, there needs to be a trade for a #2 d-man to play with EJ so that Wilson and Hejda can play together as the second pair for 16-18 mins and not 20+

Then when Jones comes in, in a year or two he can be the #3 guy for a bit with Siemens as the #4 or something and then after some development finally play top-pair minutes with EJ.

But I'm a dreamer.

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01-29-2013, 12:59 PM
  #67
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I had thought "playoff team" before the Sharks game. I thought it would be tough but they somehow figure it our after that game. Then the game against the Oilers happened. Thinking "tank" now.

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01-29-2013, 01:14 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
I've said it before... We lost out on Seguin/Hall by over achieving in 2009, without that we would not have Landeskog so 'fine'. But this team needs at least one more top 5 pick.

We cannot get both a top pairing defender and a top line winger by trading one of our centers. We can only trade for one of those guys...

I've also been a huge defender of Stastny over the last couple of years, but I am so done with him. Hes gotten too comfortable and it's obvious. Even with O'Reilly holding out, I hope they sign him and trade Stastny at this point. That is the first time I've said that...

On a positive note... McGinn - Duchene- Parenteau looked good as a line. That line, Varly, EJ, and Wilson were our only bright spots on the team. One line and one defensive pairing isn't enough. Also anyone who blames any of our losses on Varly at all, didn't watch the games. I haven't seen our defense be so weak in front of the net, and let our goalie hang out to dry this badly. Pathetic...

Jones needs to be traded like yesterday, and with a vengeance. Hopefully someone will give us a 1st for him at the deadline.
I'm not and I won't be until I see him performing like that for another coach. I seriously don't think he would and if he's traded at his low-point value wise, a lot of Avs fans are going to be pissed when he starts playing much better under a coach who knows what the **** he's doing. I've seen him play in 2 World Championships and those coaches don't have any problem putting him on a line with MaxPac and Bobby Ryan and he plays very well.

Don't kid yourself, if WE as fans can see the stupid decisions this guy makes on a daily basis, don't you think the players that actually play the game can see it too?? I don't know how many of you actually played hockey at a competitive level but to have a coach that is generally always bewildered to put it mildly is extremely disheartening for a player.

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I feel like a change in coaches would do Statz some good. He has not seemed to want to play hard for Sacco since forever. Really feels like Statz is not sold on how Sacco handles players and even less sold with his "system".
This. Great post!

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I'd certainly like the money we're using on Hejda to be used on a guy like him instead, even with the obvious shortcomings in his defensive game. I agree w/Dater that EJ would excel with an offensive-minded partner, not a defensive-minded one.
Yeah but Dater is ALWAYS wrong. (He wrote today that Stastny has 2 assists. He actually only has 1)

I think EJ has a lot of offensive ability but he put all of that on the backburner to become a better defensive player over the past 2 years. I mean, if he's not going to be defensively responsible, who exactly is going to do it?? It's by more of an extreme need than anything else. Yesterday in the 3rd period, he showed some offensive moves that we haven't seen from him for while and it's refreshing to know that it's still there. I just wish it would come out more often.

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01-29-2013, 02:06 PM
  #69
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I'm not and I won't be until I see him performing like that for another coach. I seriously don't think he would and if he's traded at his low-point value wise, a lot of Avs fans are going to be pissed when he starts playing much better under a coach who knows what the **** he's doing. I've seen him play in 2 World Championships and those coaches don't have any problem putting him on a line with MaxPac and Bobby Ryan and he plays very well.

Don't kid yourself, if WE as fans can see the stupid decisions this guy makes on a daily basis, don't you think the players that actually play the game can see it too?? I don't know how many of you actually played hockey at a competitive level but to have a coach that is generally always bewildered to put it mildly is extremely disheartening for a player.
Yeah but there isn't exactly a great amount of choices out there for Coaches, unless you think Quinn should be tried. Isn't Quinn a more defensive minded coach as well? (IMO a defense first coach is not what we need.)

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01-29-2013, 02:12 PM
  #70
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Yeah but there isn't exactly a great amount of choices out there for Coaches, unless you think Quinn should be tried. Isn't Quinn a more defensive minded coach as well? (IMO a defense first coach is not what we need.)
I personally DON'T think Quinn should be tried. I think either a veteran guy (Martin, Murray) or a guy that has proven that he can WIN at another level, needs to be brought in. (Roy)

I think this season is going to end up being a wash (mostly because of the injuries, otherwise we would of had a chance) but they need to clean this up after this season is over. Lacroix and the boys were able to SAVE a good chunk of $$$$$ by having Sacco and his cheap assistants for the past FOUR (gulp...has it been that long ) seasons and since it wasn't going to really matter anyways (rebuilding) I can let it go but only so far.

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01-29-2013, 02:35 PM
  #71
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I personally DON'T think Quinn should be tried. I think either a veteran guy (Martin, Murray) or a guy that has proven that he can WIN at another level, needs to be brought in. (Roy)

Yeah I would love to see Roy behind the bench, talk about an energy boost for the players and the fans with just his presence. Hes also a offensive minded coach.

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01-29-2013, 02:39 PM
  #72
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Definitely a tank year which has benefits.

Get rid of Sacco.
High Pick.
Make a thread about the firing of Sacco.
Strip naked on campus celebrating the firing of Sacco.

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01-29-2013, 02:45 PM
  #73
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Definitely a tank year which has benefits.

Get rid of Sacco.
High Pick.
Make a thread about the firing of Sacco.
Strip naked on campus celebrating the firing of Sacco.
At least it's a shorter season so we don't have to suffer quite as long.

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01-29-2013, 02:48 PM
  #74
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Yeah I would love to see Roy behind the bench, talk about an energy boost for the players and the fans with just his presence. Hes also a offensive minded coach.
Roy would be fantastic.

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01-29-2013, 02:50 PM
  #75
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Roy would be fantastic.
Yeah, he wants the big bucks though...I wouldn't have a problem with it, more specifically cuz it's not MY money.

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