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Dion Phaneuf

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Old
01-29-2013, 01:48 PM
  #101
LEAFMAN99
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
Some avs fans might hate this but I would definitely do it. I'd also like it if Kadri were involed, obviously the avs would add as well. Maybe, Jones or Elliott?
Not a chance in hell i would trade kadri right now, at the beginning of the season Im not convinced that he was untouchable, but his play in the first few games has just been so good that he made himself untouchable unless in the case of a severe overpayment.

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01-29-2013, 01:51 PM
  #102
Phion Keneuf
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Originally Posted by LEAFMAN99 View Post
Not a chance in hell i would trade kadri right now, at the beginning of the season Im not convinced that he was untouchable, but his play in the first few games has just been so good that he made himself untouchable unless in the case of a severe overpayment.
Exactly.

Kadri isn't going anywhere. Only things on the Avs with more value is EJ, Duchene, RoR.

And I wouldn't give Kadri up for RoR.

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01-29-2013, 01:52 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
.... yea. Every single one of Stastnys seasons except his injured 2008-2009 season has been higher than Bozaks career high... And even that injured season he was on pace for ~65 pts.

Yea. Bozak > Stastny...

People get too caught up with being ridiculously biased fans.
Stastnys a better player than Bozak.

Factor in that crap contract and I'm sure the value is very similar

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01-29-2013, 01:54 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by LEAFMAN99 View Post
Not a chance in hell i would trade kadri right now, at the beginning of the season Im not convinced that he was untouchable, but his play in the first few games has just been so good that he made himself untouchable unless in the case of a severe overpayment.
I understand you guys not wanting to trade kadri especially at this time. I've always been a fan of his and I'm just glad he's playing great. I still like the original deal tho

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01-29-2013, 02:00 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Stastnys a better player than Bozak.

Factor in that crap contract and I'm sure the value is very similar
Same theory can go between Phaneuf and O'Brien though, Phaneuf is a top 4 guy on most teams, heck, probably even a good top 2 guy on alot of teams, but on a 6.5mill a year contract, he is definitely overpaid, O'Brien is on what i would consider to be a reasonable contract.

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01-29-2013, 02:10 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by LEAFMAN99 View Post
Same theory can go between Phaneuf and O'Brien though,Phaneuf is a top 4 guy on most teams, heck, probably even a good top 2 guy on alot of teams, but on a 6.5mill a year contract, he is definitely overpaid, O'Brien is on what i would consider to be a reasonable contract.
I'm still confused. I hear this a lot. What exactly makes Phaneuf a 'good/solid' top 4 guy and not a top pairing guy?

I think the case could be made - and I tend to agree - he is more of a #2 on a top pairing and would make a solid top pairing but he needs help to do that. I'd put him in the range of a top 20-30 D-Man in the NHL right now.

Saying he would be a top 4 suggests that there are 60 D-Men better then him?

For those of you who feels he a top 4 only can you please elaborate on why? I'm not interested in a few single shifts or comments on the guys character or intelligence, something of substance to convince me.

Thanks so much.

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01-29-2013, 02:16 PM
  #107
Phion Keneuf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFMAN99 View Post
Same theory can go between Phaneuf and O'Brien though, Phaneuf is a top 4 guy on most teams, heck, probably even a good top 2 guy on alot of teams, but on a 6.5mill a year contract, he is definitely overpaid, O'Brien is on what i would consider to be a reasonable contract.
Yes, but the difference between Bozak and Stastny is a lot lesser than Phaneuf and O'Brien.

Phaneuf - top pairing D
Stastny - 2nd line C
Bozak - 2nd/3rd line C
O'Brien - bottom pairing D

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01-29-2013, 02:17 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I'm still confused. I hear this a lot. What exactly makes Phaneuf a 'good/solid' top 4 guy and not a top pairing guy?

I think the case could be made - and I tend to agree - he is more of a #2 on a top pairing and would make a solid top pairing but he needs help to do that. I'd put him in the range of a top 20-30 D-Man in the NHL right now.

Saying he would be a top 4 suggests that there are 60 D-Men better then him?

For those of you who feels he a top 4 only can you please elaborate on why? I'm not interested in a few single shifts or comments on the guys character or intelligence, something of substance to convince me.

Thanks so much.
Personally for me I do tend to lean more towards him being a top 2 guy on most NHL teams, he is a big body, hard hitter, and a locker room leader, but as i did say top 4 I will elaborate on what led me to make my statement.

At times Dion tends to make some mistakes out on the ice that he really shouldnt make, and MOST top 2 defencemen dont make. Way too many times I have seen him seemingly playing the role of a pylon as another player easily gets around him. He doesnt always make these mistakes, and most of the time he plays a pretty solid game, the fact that he plays pretty close to 30 mins a game does probably contribute to some of the mistakes I mentioned, but at the same time, its them mistakes that he makes that drive me as a leafs fan absolutely crazy. Hope my explanation makes atleast a little sense lol.

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01-29-2013, 02:25 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Yes, but the difference between Bozak and Stastny is a lot lesser than Phaneuf and O'Brien.

Phaneuf - top pairing D
Stastny - 2nd line C
Bozak - 2nd/3rd line C
O'Brien - bottom pairing D
Agreeable, I personally rank Stastny as a 1C and Bozak as a solid 3C, but at the same time I am trying to factor in how desperate the leafs are for a first line center, to me the difference doesnt seem to be that much, but its just my opinion. I just like the trade because it is a realistically possible trade scenario in which the leafs fill a major need without opening up any major holes.

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01-29-2013, 02:29 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
Pathetic? Hardly.. more realistic than anything else.

What's pathetic is the majority of a fan-base who delude themselves on a yearly basis that the Leafs are good enough to earn a play-off spot despite the fact that the team's overall talent level hasn't really improved in years!

Yes.. at this moment, the Leaf are only 5 games into this current season, but their play AS A TEAM hasn't improved one bit since last season (when they ended with a top-5 draft pick). Factor into the equation that the Leafs are also trying to learn a new system "on the fly" and it's virtually guaranteed that they will end up with another top-5 draft pick this summer.

It's pretty evident that what this team/organization needs is a complete rebuild, not some half-assed re-tool like what Burke tried to do and failed miserably at.

If you (and others like you) cannot grasp such a simple comcept, then I can't help you.
I don't need your help. I fully understand that this is a young team and their will be bumps in the road. We looked pretty good in the Buffalo and Pittsburgh games, this team just needs to become more consistent. Phaneuf has been a monster this year defensively, excluding a couple minutes in the Rangers game. So why trade him? Our defense would be a mess without Dion, and would be the softest d core in the league easily.

So what exactly do you want to do? Trade all of our older players, who arent even that old in the grand scheme of things for picks and prospects? Wait 5 more years for them to develop then trade them for more picks and prospects? Rinse and repeat?

The Marlies have implemented a winning culture which will pay dividends in the future. Look at the senators after Bingamton won, if I remember correctly the senators made the playoffs the year after. Instead of throwing everything out the drain, let this team try their hardest to make the post season, which I think they have the best chance of doing in the past 8 years. Wether you believe that or not it doesn't matter.

I know this "sky is falling" mentality is popular with you and some other less intelligent leaf fans, but atleast wait till the games hit double digits for you to put your tin foil hats on.

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01-29-2013, 02:35 PM
  #111
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Sam Gagner + 2013 1st round pick for Phaneuf

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01-29-2013, 02:37 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by nitz View Post
Sam Gagner + 2013 1st round pick for Phaneuf
Pass...

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01-29-2013, 02:43 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by nitz View Post
Sam Gagner + 2013 1st round pick for Phaneuf
Pass from the Oilers as well. Hell, I probably would not do the 1st.

Dion is a good #2, but that is the point: #2, not #1. He needs that rock defensive guy playing alongside him to cover up for him. When he gets that, he can be a force. When he is supposed to be that guy covering for a younger player, well, we get what you are seeing currently.

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01-29-2013, 02:48 PM
  #114
Phion Keneuf
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Originally Posted by roboninja View Post
Pass from the Oilers as well. Hell, I probably would not do the 1st.

Dion is a good #2, but that is the point: #2, not #1. He needs that rock defensive guy playing alongside him to cover up for him. When he gets that, he can be a force. When he is supposed to be that guy covering for a younger player, well, we get what you are seeing currently.
He'd be your best Dman.

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01-29-2013, 02:49 PM
  #115
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Don't let these people fool you a 50 to 60 point defenceman who would be #1 on 15 teams has good value

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01-29-2013, 03:04 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Ciccio1980 View Post
Don't let these people fool you a 50 to 60 point defenceman who would be #1 on 15 teams has good value
Phaneuf last broke 50 points 5 seasons ago and hit 60 exactly once in his career.

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01-29-2013, 03:09 PM
  #117
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from one hab fan's POV: Phaneuf gets a lot of hate for being a ****-disturber on the the ice AND being a Leaf. that being said, he's a very good dman who plays with an edge and solid offensive upside.

he's worth quite a bit but leafs should just keep him and build around him.

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01-29-2013, 03:13 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Exactly.

Kadri isn't going anywhere. Only things on the Avs with more value is EJ, Duchene, RoR.

And I wouldn't give Kadri up for RoR.
What? Landeskog? Varlamov?

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01-29-2013, 03:18 PM
  #119
Phion Keneuf
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Originally Posted by CoachBadkitten View Post
What? Landeskog? Varlamov?
Lol forgot about Landy.

Not sure about Varlamov

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01-29-2013, 03:19 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by nitz View Post
Sam Gagner + 2013 1st round pick for Phaneuf
I'd need a defensemen prospect as well(not Klefbom).

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01-29-2013, 05:02 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitz View Post
Sam Gagner + 2013 1st round pick for Phaneuf
Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Pass...
Depends where you think Edm will finish... Western Conference is a LOT deeper than the East. And with no inter-conference games, you cant gain extra pts against other conference teams.

Edm is a hard team to predict. They could come bottom 2-3 in the Conference, and thus it would be Gagner + ~1st-6th overall, or their young studs could explode and Dubnyk could play more consistently and theyre a playoff team or borderline playoff team.

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01-29-2013, 06:24 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
LOL. How do you gauge that Phaneuf played some of the toughest minutes in the entire league last year?
He had the 10th highest Corsi Rel QoC in the league last year among defensemen, 3rd highest QoC among defensemen. It's really not even up for debate, it's a fact.

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01-29-2013, 06:55 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by roboninja View Post
Pass from the Oilers as well. Hell, I probably would not do the 1st.

Dion is a good #2, but that is the point: #2, not #1. He needs that rock defensive guy playing alongside him to cover up for him. When he gets that, he can be a force. When he is supposed to be that guy covering for a younger player, well, we get what you are seeing currently.
As a Leaf fan I couldn't agree more

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01-29-2013, 07:01 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Rare Jewel View Post
I'd need a defensemen prospect as well(not Klefbom).
Why don't we ask for Taylor Hall while we are at it.....

BIG PASS by the Oil on this one

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01-29-2013, 07:03 PM
  #125
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Coyle+Hackett+1st

Cullen might have to come your way to make salary work. Even then you'd still need to keep 1.5M or so. Want a 3rd to do that?

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