Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
One is coming off a 55 point season in his 3rd NHL season while playing an amazing 2 way game.
One is coming off a 34 point season as a smallish forward in his 3rd NHL season.
Ennis' 34 points came in 48 games. Thats 58 points over a full season
I like Ennis' offensive skill-set much more . He'll probably have more points in his career than O'Rielly. You're right though, they both played 3 seasons.
Ennis' 34 points came in 48 games. Thats 58 points over a full season
I like Ennis' offensive skill-set much more . He'll probably have more points in his career than O'Rielly. You're right though, they both played 3 seasons.
Most likely playing atleast somewhat protected minutes. O'reilly consistently outplayed opposing teams top lines, while shutting them down.
Realistically... the ROR isn't a player that the Leafs should be pursuing.
The way things are playing out, Grabovski seems to be the guy that Carlyle is going to use as our checking centre.
So the question becomes, does ROR provide any appreciable upgrade over Bozak / Kadri in the other centre roles?
In terms of Bozak, I don't believe so. O'Reilly's career high is 55 points in 81 games, not really substantially different from Bozak's 47 points in 73 games. Add that to the fact that Bozak/Kessel have excelllent chemistry and like playing together, and that O'Reilly has more value than Bozak, and this is basically a lose-lose situation for Toronto. The Leafs can do much better by just retaining Bozak.
Talking about adding Gardiner to Bozak is absolutely ludicrous. From a Leafs standpoint, you could certainly make the case that Bozak/O'Reilly straight up is a bad deal.
In terms of Kadri, O'Reilly is certainly an upgrade, and would undoubtedly give the Leafs added flexibility in their lineup. But then you have to question, is getting a 2nd/3rd line centre really worth the price of admission on O'Reilly when you have a high potential young player like Kadri finally starting to earn his keep in the NHL? Would the assets you have to give up not be better used on a true #1, or goaltender, or defenceman? Unless you can get a deal done for a guy like MacArthur + a non-essential defenceman, Toronto would probably be best served steering clear on this one.
Realistically... the ROR isn't a player that the Leafs should be pursuing.
The way things are playing out, Grabovski seems to be the guy that Carlyle is going to use as our checking centre.
So the question becomes, does ROR provide any appreciable upgrade over Bozak / Kadri in the other centre roles?
In terms of Bozak, I don't believe so. O'Reilly's career high is 55 points in 81 games, not really substantially different from Bozak's 47 points in 73 games. Add that to the fact that Bozak/Kessel have excelllent chemistry and like playing together, and that O'Reilly has more value than Bozak, and this is basically a lose-lose situation for Toronto. The Leafs can do much better by just retaining Bozak.
Talking about adding Gardiner to Bozak is absolutely ludicrous. From a Leafs standpoint, you could certainly make the case that Bozak/O'Reilly straight up is a bad deal.
In terms of Kadri, O'Reilly is certainly an upgrade, and would undoubtedly give the Leafs added flexibility in their lineup. But then you have to question, is getting a 2nd/3rd line centre really worth the price of admission on O'Reilly when you have a high potential young player like Kadri finally starting to earn his keep in the NHL? Would the assets you have to give up not be better used on a true #1, or goaltender, or defenceman? Unless you can get a deal done for a guy like MacArthur + a non-essential defenceman, Toronto would probably be best served steering clear on this one.
Do you even know who Ryan O'Reilly is? O'Reilly is frickin 21 years old and played 3rd line minutes, whereas Bozak has played first line minutes with one of the best snipers in the league and is 26. Do you see the difference? Kadri is older than O'Reilly for God's sake! Oh, and that chemistry between Kessel and Bozak is RED HOT right now! Wooowee!
Do you even know who Ryan O'Reilly is? O'Reilly is frickin 21 years old and played 3rd line minutes, whereas Bozak has played first line minutes with one of the best snipers in the league and is 26. Do you see the difference? Kadri is older than O'Reilly for God's sake! Oh, and that chemistry between Kessel and Bozak is RED HOT right now! Wooowee!
Sorry on behalf of Leafs fans everyone!
Its seanlinden..I'm getting used to seeing stuff like that. Make the case that Bozak for O'Reilly is a bad deal? There is no point in taking the guy seriously. No need to apologise for him.
Do you even know who Ryan O'Reilly is? O'Reilly is frickin 21 years old and played 3rd line minutes, whereas Bozak has played first line minutes with one of the best snipers in the league and is 26. Do you see the difference? Kadri is older than O'Reilly for God's sake! Oh, and that chemistry between Kessel and Bozak is RED HOT right now! Wooowee!
Sorry on behalf of Leafs fans everyone!
O'Rielly led all Avalanche forwards with an average TOI of 19:31 last year, good for 22nd for all centers league-wide. Bozak was 34th at 18:50.
I'm not saying he's better but get your facts straight at least.
Sry but WTF? That trade makes NO SENSE whatsoever for the Ducks. But that one doesn't beat your recent proposal of Perry + 1st + DSP for Harntell + Scraps.
Sidebar: That doesn't mean ROR is a bad player, that trade just makes no sense. I'd imagine he'd cost the Ducks Palmieri/Etem + 1st. Not something I want to do as the draft is really good this year.
Do you even know who Ryan O'Reilly is? O'Reilly is frickin 21 years old and played 3rd line minutes, whereas Bozak has played first line minutes with one of the best snipers in the league and is 26. Do you see the difference? Kadri is older than O'Reilly for God's sake! Oh, and that chemistry between Kessel and Bozak is RED HOT right now! Wooowee!
Sorry on behalf of Leafs fans everyone!
O'Reilly didn't have Phil Kessel as a linemate, no.. but that comes with as much pressure and difficulty as it is a benefit. When teams played the Leafs last year, they knew that the defensive play was downright terrible. The way you were going to beat Toronto was to shut down Lupul/Bozak/Kessel, as a result, Bozak would've faced much tougher defensive assignments. When teams played Colorado, they knew that they were a low-powered offensive team (about as bad as the Leafs were defensively), nobody gameplanned to shut down Ryan O'Reilly.
As for the age gap, it's definitely there, but likely not as important as one would think when you consider that Bozak is a substantially later bloomer, who actually has less experience than O'Reilly. The other component of the age gap of course, is UFA/RFA status, but I'm fairly confident in Bozak's willingness to sign in Toronto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44
Its seanlinden..I'm getting used to seeing stuff like that. Make the case that Bozak for O'Reilly is a bad deal? There is no point in taking the guy seriously. No need to apologise for him.
Do you honestly believe that if the Leafs trade Bozak straight up for O'Reilly, that they become a better team? I don't. These guys had very similar years last year, while Bozak has the edge in career PPG. He's got proven chemistry with Kessel. Even if O'Reilly is the better player, he's certainly not better to a large enough degree to justify breaking those 2 up.
If the Leafs were to trade for O'Reilly, it's to become the 3rd centre along with Bozak & Grabo. This would of course give the Leafs the flexibility to get Grabo into more of a scoring role, and perhaps fit better with what Randy Carlyle is trying to do as he'd have 2 lines that can be used in a shutdown role. However, I doubt that he's going to be worth fair market value to us, when we already have Grabovski, and to a lesser extent, Jay McClement.
Do you even know who Ryan O'Reilly is? O'Reilly is frickin 21 years old and played 3rd line minutes, whereas Bozak has played first line minutes with one of the best snipers in the league and is 26. Do you see the difference? Kadri is older than O'Reilly for God's sake! Oh, and that chemistry between Kessel and Bozak is RED HOT right now! Wooowee!
Sorry on behalf of Leafs fans everyone!
No need to apologize, we're used to the same bunch of people at this point that continually find threads to bash our players. EJ has the worst of it, but our centers have a particular group as well. Varly still has a few too.
If there is a young player in the league with lots of promise and a very vocal opposition then they will likely find their way to Colorado.
I wouldn't trade Tyler Ennis alone for ROR. Kid is gonna be a stud
That's ridiculous. The Sabres currently have three centers with high-end offensive abilities--Hodgson, Grigorenko, Ennis--but none play the defensive-zone particularly well, and each needs to play protected minutes to maximize their abilities. They're a mismatched group, unfortunately. ROR remedies that because he can play heavy defensive minutes against good competition and do well against those guys, thereby alleviating some of the burden on the other two centers.
I'd do a deal around those two in a heartbeat, and would even add Pysyk if that's what it took. (I doubt Colorado takes the deal, though, because Ennis probably is not what they're looking for.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Granny
LOL
O'Reilly is 21
Ennis is 23
One is coming off a 55 point season in his 3rd NHL season while playing an amazing 2 way game.
One is coming off a 34 point season as a smallish forward in his 3rd NHL season.
Misleading stats are misleading.
I'd definitely do the trade for reasons I mentioned above, but citing their point totals is pretty silly considering Ennis only played 48 games. Ennis also finished 13th in the entire NHL in ES pts/60 mins played (2.66). ROR is the better hockey player due to his tremendous defensive prowess coupled with developing offensive abilities, but Ennis is the better offensive player right now and probably for the long-term.
(Again, I would do this trade in a second, and I'm not trying to make this an Ennis v. O'Reilly thread. Just pointing out the misleading nature of that stat tossed out by the quoted poster.)
O'Reilly didn't have Phil Kessel as a linemate, no.. but that comes with as much pressure and difficulty as it is a benefit. When teams played the Leafs last year, they knew that the defensive play was downright terrible. The way you were going to beat Toronto was to shut down Lupul/Bozak/Kessel, as a result, Bozak would've faced much tougher defensive assignments. When teams played Colorado, they knew that they were a low-powered offensive team (about as bad as the Leafs were defensively), nobody gameplanned to shut down Ryan O'Reilly.
As for the age gap, it's definitely there, but likely not as important as one would think when you consider that Bozak is a substantially later bloomer, who actually has less experience than O'Reilly. The other component of the age gap of course, is UFA/RFA status, but I'm fairly confident in Bozak's willingness to sign in Toronto.
Do you honestly believe that if the Leafs trade Bozak straight up for O'Reilly, that they become a better team? I don't. These guys had very similar years last year, while Bozak has the edge in career PPG. He's got proven chemistry with Kessel. Even if O'Reilly is the better player, he's certainly not better to a large enough degree to justify breaking those 2 up.
If the Leafs were to trade for O'Reilly, it's to become the 3rd centre along with Bozak & Grabo. This would of course give the Leafs the flexibility to get Grabo into more of a scoring role, and perhaps fit better with what Randy Carlyle is trying to do as he'd have 2 lines that can be used in a shutdown role. However, I doubt that he's going to be worth fair market value to us, when we already have Grabovski, and to a lesser extent, Jay McClement.
No need to apologize, we're used to the same bunch of people at this point that continually find threads to bash our players. EJ has the worst of it, but our centers have a particular group as well. Varly still has a few too.
If there is a young player in the league with lots of promise and a very vocal opposition then they will likely find their way to Colorado.
So you must be very interested in Phil Kessel then, eh?
O'Reilly's tough to gauge right now with this holdout or whatever he's doing. Hopefully he gets back in the NHL ASAP.
I would think he'd be excellent trade bait assuming the acquiring team felt they could get him under contract. He'd be an expensive buy I'd bet.
Most likely playing atleast somewhat protected minutes. O'reilly consistently outplayed opposing teams top lines, while shutting them down.
I can't argue that O'Reilly hasn't proven more, because he has, I just don't see that great offensive upside meanwhile Ennis' offensive skills are off-the-charts and I think he'll blossom into an excellent scoring forward. Anyway, a Sabres fan just said he'd rather the defensive forward because of their surplus of offensive forwards so theres that
So you must be very interested in Phil Kessel then, eh?
O'Reilly's tough to gauge right now with this holdout or whatever he's doing. Hopefully he gets back in the NHL ASAP.
I would think he'd be excellent trade bait assuming the acquiring team felt they could get him under contract. He'd be an expensive buy I'd bet.
Oh I'd love to see Kessel and Staz play together, Phil might threaten the 50 goal mark and Staz would be back to the PPG producer he used to be, unfortunately there's no trade between the two teams that would help both and make that happen.
As for a Radar trade I can't imagine there's any way he gets traded without a contract in place, and honestly I expect him to re-sign with the avs and then get dealt over the summer if he is traded.
