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Bylsma/coaching discussion thread

View Poll Results: How long do you give Dan?
Fire him now 18 22.22%
15 games 33 40.74%
30 games 4 4.94%
Fire him if we fail in the play-offs 23 28.40%
Keep him till next year 3 3.70%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-29-2013, 02:52 PM
  #376
MtlPenFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
You can't see the value in reducing the ice time of a player that is clearly hurting your hockey team?

Less mistakes = better chance to win

It's not like he won't figure it out eventually, but you don't keep putting him out there when its obvious he is struggling to make the right decisions.

Again, it took Cooke exactly one game to correct his mistakes. Does he have some magical powers Kunitz doesn't have?
And for a team that has one legit scoring winger (who already has his position cemented), who do we put in his place?

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01-29-2013, 03:07 PM
  #377
UnderratedBrooks44
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
You can't see the value in reducing the ice time of a player that is clearly hurting your hockey team?

Less mistakes = better chance to win

It's not like he won't figure it out eventually, but you don't keep putting him out there when its obvious he is struggling to make the right decisions.

Again, it took Cooke exactly one game to correct his mistakes. Does he have some magical powers Kunitz doesn't have?
History is on my side. In other words, it won't be a long term problem and it all points to just keeping him where he is.

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01-29-2013, 03:41 PM
  #378
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
And for a team that has one legit scoring winger (who already has his position cemented), who do we put in his place?
Already covered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
History is on my side. In other words, it won't be a long term problem and it all points to just keeping him where he is.
History is already on my side that DB's refusal to make his vets accountable has cost him. See the Pittsburgh-Philadelphia 2012 playoffs.

A series that doesn't even happen if his team didn't lose their discipline down the stretch run.

All of this nonsense about losing a team for justified benchings, when he completely lost them last season when it mattered the most.

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01-29-2013, 03:54 PM
  #379
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Quite the controversy, isn't it?

On one hand, you demote Tangradi because he isn't playing to his potential. On the other hand, Kunitz is off to a bad start, but you can't demote him because there's no one to replace him.

One thing I don't like is when Tangradi does something good against Ottawa, driving to the net, taking guys with him so Neal can score the goal, then Glass gets put on that line. When a guy like Tangradi does something good like that, reward him.

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01-29-2013, 04:15 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
I'm not at all convinced that his struggles aren't just a symptom of an entire group that's been really lackluster. A few poor plays of his may have stuck out more but I don't think he's been uniquely terrible.

But even if he really has been as bad as what folks are saying, what do you think is accomplished by benching him? He's having a rough start. He didn't just forget how to play, and the only way forward is to give a vet like him the benefit of the doubt and expect that he will turn it around. Because if he doesn't, this team is in even more trouble than we think they might be.
You donīt necessarily have to bench him to send him a message. A good start would be to get him off the first pp unit. The same could be said for Letang who has been awful on the pp, but then Niskanen got injured so they donīt have anyone who fits that spot.

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01-29-2013, 04:16 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
They're not benching Kunitz for god's sake. Bench him and play who??? Seriously guys get a grip.
Who said anything about benching anybody?

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01-29-2013, 04:26 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
History is already on my side that DB's refusal to make his vets accountable has cost him. See the Pittsburgh-Philadelphia 2012 playoffs.

A series that doesn't even happen if his team didn't lose their discipline down the stretch run.

All of this nonsense about losing a team for justified benchings, when he completely lost them last season when it mattered the most.
Sure he can be blamed for that and rightfully so, but we all know Sid et. al. steer the ship as far as the team's demeanor. Sid, who we all love, acting like a baby during and after games with the press took them off the rails as much as anything. I give Sid credit for the work ethic this team has (had?), not Bylsma. I won't contradict myself and say it doesn't work the other way too.

FYI if this is all leading to Bylsma being a coach who leaves a lot to be desired you won't hear any argument from me, our reasons will just be different.

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01-29-2013, 04:27 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Quite the controversy, isn't it?

On one hand, you demote Tangradi because he isn't playing to his potential. On the other hand, Kunitz is off to a bad start, but you can't demote him because there's no one to replace him.

One thing I don't like is when Tangradi does something good against Ottawa, driving to the net, taking guys with him so Neal can score the goal, then Glass gets put on that line. When a guy like Tangradi does something good like that, reward him.
I think Steigy is in your head. Center drive is not a uniqe skill, it's just what any hockey player older than 13 is to do when in that situation.

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01-29-2013, 04:33 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
I think Steigy is in your head. Center drive is not a uniqe skill, it's just what any hockey player older than 13 is to do when in that situation.
Which was more than what Kennedy was doing for that line...

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01-29-2013, 04:36 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Which was more than what Kennedy was doing for that line...
I don't really see anyone having done anything for those two so far this year so, if you want to chalk it up I guess do so. That stuff's a product of the TV broadcast more than anything if you ask me.

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01-29-2013, 04:44 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
I don't really see anyone having done anything for those two so far this year so, if you want to chalk it up I guess do so. That stuff's a product of the TV broadcast more than anything if you ask me.
And I think too many people are just looking at stats or expect Tangradi to be the next Kevin Stevens.

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01-29-2013, 04:44 PM
  #387
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Exactly, In the last 3 games, I think we've given away at least 5 goals on ill-advised passes through the middle. And that is with Goalie or Defense bailing us out on a few more (Engo comes to mind in previous game; Letang in another)

BTW- DB said Despres was benched because of inconsistency... pure comedy for him to even say that. I like DB (and I'm not saying we should change coaches) but for him to say that is just....
That makes sense because Lovejoy is consistently terrible.

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01-29-2013, 04:44 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by BigBadBoris View Post
You donīt necessarily have to bench him to send him a message. A good start would be to get him off the first pp unit. The same could be said for Letang who has been awful on the pp, but then Niskanen got injured so they donīt have anyone who fits that spot.
Well, I would apply the same logic in opposing a demotion, as I did a benching.

I mean, if you have an alternative power play format that is worth trying, then yes by all means. But to remove Kunitz for the purpose of holding him accountable, then I say no. As rough as he's been at times five on five, it's tough to blame him for the power play. I'm not sure if he's touched the puck once on it.

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01-29-2013, 05:03 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Sure he can be blamed for that and rightfully so, but we all know Sid et. al. steer the ship as far as the team's demeanor. Sid, who we all love, acting like a baby during and after games with the press took them off the rails as much as anything. I give Sid credit for the work ethic this team has (had?), not Bylsma. I won't contradict myself and say it doesn't work the other way too.

FYI if this is all leading to Bylsma being a coach who leaves a lot to be desired you won't hear any argument from me, our reasons will just be different.
I have been defending DB since the summer, but I'm not going to pretend he isn't making mistakes I don't agree with. He needs to evolve in several ways to become the coach I think he can be. He is not a good disciplinarian, unless you count the ultra short leash he has for rookies.

It's time he steps up and makes every player be accountable, because this team is heading for another first round exit if he doesn't start to finally instill a tight sense of discipline.

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01-29-2013, 06:55 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Already covered.

History is already on my side that DB's refusal to make his vets accountable has cost him. See the Pittsburgh-Philadelphia 2012 playoffs.

A series that doesn't even happen if his team didn't lose their discipline down the stretch run.

All of this nonsense about losing a team for justified benchings, when he completely lost them last season when it mattered the most.
Just for comparison's sake, the team that beat the Flyers in the playoffs last year en route to the Cup Finals benched their #4 overall pick for most of the playoffs, and every game so far this year.

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01-29-2013, 07:12 PM
  #391
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I agree with Brooks here. Benching Kunitz is an absurdly bad idea. Kunitz should be allowed to work out his mistakes and not be benched because we all know he knows better and his history of play suggests he'll get back to being the player we know he can be.

By the same token, Bylsma shouldn't be yanking rookies off the ice the moment they make a mistake. They need to be allowed to make mistakes or they will never grow. If they aren't ready, send them down to WBS. Scratching them or benching them does no good.

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01-29-2013, 07:13 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Just for comparison's sake, the team that beat the Flyers in the playoffs last year en route to the Cup Finals benched their #4 overall pick for most of the playoffs, and every game so far this year.
The Devils... the same team that once benched Kovy because he missed meetings?

Brodeur was also benched in late April last season. Lou has always run a tight ship.

Just off the top of my head, other stars benched last year include AO, Semin and Gaborik.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...accountability

This isn't some uncommon thing.

Expecting your rookies to never make mistakes and benching them while your vets make mistake after mistake and get rewarded sets a very bad precedent.

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01-29-2013, 07:24 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
The Devils... the same team that once benched Kovy because he missed meetings?
If our players missed meetings, I have no doubt Bylsma would do the same.

Quote:
Brodeur was also benched in late April last season. Lou has always run a tight ship.
Bylsma benched Fleury in favour of Johnson last year too.

I just think the Philly series is a bit of a loopy comparison considering what happened to them the very next series when they played a team that was benching a better young player than we have in our whole system. Sometimes you win with rookies, sometimes you lose.

Quote:
Expecting your rookies to never make mistakes and benching them while your vets make mistake after mistake and get rewarded sets a very bad precedent.
Early on in a season with an abrupt start, I think it's understood that everyone is finding their bearings. Rookies will always have less rope.

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01-29-2013, 07:24 PM
  #394
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
The Devils... the same team that once benched Kovy because he missed meetings?

Brodeur was also benched in late April last season. Lou has always run a tight ship.

Just off the top of my head, other stars benched last year include AO, Semin and Gaborik.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...accountability

This isn't some uncommon thing.

Expecting your rookies to never make mistakes and benching them while your vets make mistake after mistake and get rewarded sets a very bad precedent.
Why not just not bench rooks or vets? I don't ever see the need to bench anybody unless they are being immature or cancerous or something. Players shouldn't suffer the bench because of mental errors. All that leads to is players playing not to make a mistake, which leads to terrible play.

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01-29-2013, 07:35 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
If our players missed meetings, I have no doubt Bylsma would do the same.



Bylsma benched Fleury in favour of Johnson last year too.

I just think the Philly series is a bit of a loopy comparison considering what happened to them the very next series when they played a team that was benching a better young player than we have in our whole system. Sometimes you win with rookies, sometimes you lose.



Early on in a season with an abrupt start, I think it's understood that everyone is finding their bearings. Rookies will always have less rope.
Agree to disagree. There is literally no argument that would convince me a vet should be rewarded with PP time and not have his minutes reduced when he is consistently making mistakes like Kunitz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pancakes View Post
Why not just not bench rooks or vets? I don't ever see the need to bench anybody unless they are being immature or cancerous or something. Players shouldn't suffer the bench because of mental errors. All that leads to is players playing not to make a mistake, which leads to terrible play.
Players, vets or rookies shouldn't be benched for having games like Despres, Cooke, or Sutter had.

However, making the same mental errors five games in a row should not be happening. That's why his time should be reduced until he gets his head on right, then you bump it back up.

You can't have a guy out there, rookie or vet, making as many mistakes as he has.

If that was Martin, people would be calling for him to be put on waivers.

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01-29-2013, 09:17 PM
  #396
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Its obvious pens need to make a coaching change ASAP. I used to think the pens would make playoffs no matter what but now i dont think so players aren't playing hard they don't look like thay care anymore.

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01-29-2013, 10:19 PM
  #397
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It is not that they lost. Not that they got hammered even. The thing that has to concern is that they are doing the same things that killed them in the Philly series. Makes me very pessimistic about this upcoming season and post season.

Also, did it seem that the team was trying to get Bylsma fired? They showed zero passion and seemed to telling everyone that Bylsma has worn his welcome out.

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01-29-2013, 10:32 PM
  #398
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01-29-2013, 10:35 PM
  #399
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So let's say Disco got the boot in a week.

Realistically, who would be his replacement?

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01-29-2013, 10:36 PM
  #400
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Hey remember when Bylsma *****ed about not having enough time to practice thanks to the condensed schedule of the shortened season, and then he gave the guys a day off practice yesterday...

..yeah good times.

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