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Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Isles - YIKES

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Old
01-29-2013, 09:28 PM
  #101
Omnomnomnom
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Originally Posted by Hophog View Post
I can't imagine that Shero is too interested in getting rid of Bylsma. If they bring in another coach that doesn't win then all eyes will be on the crap team that Shero has assembled.
If the team keeps going like this, he won't have a choice. Keeping Bylsma on is only going to put Shero on the hotseat sooner.

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01-29-2013, 09:29 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
The team was **** tonight, no doubt. But again, the circumstances behind the beginning of this season haven't been seen since '95. I don't think it's possible to get a representative view of the team at this point of the season.

Let's give it a month. These are proud players who have always - unlike with MT - have been very vocal in their support of both the coach and the system.
And I think it IS representative of the team because we have seen this same ****** performance for years under Bylsma. The most recent example is the abortion of a playoff series last year against the Flyers.

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Old
01-29-2013, 09:29 PM
  #103
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Ron Francis as GM? Hmmm. That is an intriguing thought. I see him more as GM material than coaching material, and I think he went back to being the ass't GM from ass't coach since last season.

This roster is good enough to win a Stanley Cup? Please. This roster is nothing like the '09 roster. Orpik, Cooke, Kunitz, Dupuis, Adams are all much older in hockey years than they were then, and less effective. We have no shutdown defense. A lot of our overall grit, toughness and ATTITUDE is gone. Our two superstars aren't playing like superstars. But even if they were, we have the same damn holes as we've always had. We haven't tweaked anything in four years. We just expect different results. Just cuz.

It should not be a novelty that Bylsma sucks. He's been getting out-coached for four years running. Old news. But beyond that, we have to get rid of this entire Nashville-oriented system. This blue-collar hockey is assinine with Crosby and Malkin and Letang on the roster. Start developing TALENT for christ's sake. All around the league, there's an infusion of youth and talent. We infuse Tanner Glass.

I see a Montreal team now with major ATTITUDE. That used to be us. We used to have team toughness. We used to push the play. We used to outskill teams AND outwork them. We have none of that now. We've lost so many key members of our Cup team, and kept around for too long so many others. That's on the GM, folks.

There is no easy fix, here. But we should start by getting rid of some of the '09 Cup residue. Goodbye, Craig Adams. So long, Brooks Orpik. Au revoir, Pascal Dupuis. Matt Cooke. Oh, and you're still mediocre at best, Marc-Andre Fleury.

I'm sorry, but this roster isn't Cup worthy. Take a snapshot of the entire league. Look at what the Bruins have. And what they have on the way. Look at what the Blackhawks have. And what they have on the way. Look at the Kings. Blues. Look at some of the up-and-coming teams. There are a LOT of rosters that have caught up to and surpassed ours.

But let's go on believing that we're a coaching change away from catching lightning in a bottle (again). Like there aren't 29 other franchises with Cup aspirations, too.

We're nowhere near a Cup. Hopefully, Mario sees this and acts accordingly (assuming it's his call to change GMs).

The Pens are no longer must-see TV, folks. We're just another recent Cup winner trying to hold onto old glory in foolish manner, thinking excuses got in the way of a potential dynasty.

It's not excuses. It's bad management, bad development and bad coaching. And that is NO excuse when you can start your roster building with 87 and 71. Absolutely no excuse.

Sorry Shero, but you're done in my book. Next man up.

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Old
01-29-2013, 09:29 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by MonsterSurge View Post
I think they're trying to get Bylsma axed. It's the perfect time to do it with a short season too..
Well, with the condensed schedule, it's pretty tough to wait another dozen games, figuring it would take a new coach a bit to clean up the mess.

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01-29-2013, 09:29 PM
  #105
Randy Butternubs
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Originally Posted by wheelz87 View Post
-Kunitz. Speaking of which, you SUCK. You're slow, you have no hands, no offensive creativity. When your contract is up, SEE YA. Overhyped third liner/2nd wheel getting to play with the best player in the world.
I agree. Gotta change my name now.

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01-29-2013, 09:30 PM
  #106
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I don't get it. Is that a slight against Bylsma or me lol.......
Bylsma

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01-29-2013, 09:30 PM
  #107
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They didn't even get to "the hockey game" tonight.

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01-29-2013, 09:31 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Here's my *only* problem, Cole: how do we line this opinion up with their first 5 periods of the season where everything from the gap discipline and the power play, to the energy and the effort looked completely different.

I think Bylsma is a big part of the problem, but I can't wrap my head around why they would have picked the 2nd period at home against the Maple Leafs to tune Bylsma out.
Take a look back at the December 2008-January 2009 run. It's not like things went straight downhill. There were some really good efforts in there, but the general trend line was down. Same goes for this team's last 25-30 games.

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01-29-2013, 09:32 PM
  #109
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I'd like to give a missed + to my man made friend; beer

Bless your abilities to make me not give a damn until tomorrow.

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01-29-2013, 09:32 PM
  #110
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The thing about this season so far is that they haven't looked like a consistent scoring threat, and I think that's being polite. That falls on just about everyone with or without equipment I think.

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01-29-2013, 09:32 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by jag68sid87 View Post
ron francis as gm? Hmmm. That is an intriguing thought. I see him more as gm material than coaching material, and i think he went back to being the ass't gm from ass't coach since last season.

This roster is good enough to win a stanley cup? Please. This roster is nothing like the '09 roster. Orpik, cooke, kunitz, dupuis, adams are all much older in hockey years than they were then, and less effective. We have no shutdown defense. A lot of our overall grit, toughness and attitude is gone. Our two superstars aren't playing like superstars. But even if they were, we have the same damn holes as we've always had. We haven't tweaked anything in four years. We just expect different results. Just cuz.

It should not be a novelty that bylsma sucks. He's been getting out-coached for four years running. Old news. But beyond that, we have to get rid of this entire nashville-oriented system. This blue-collar hockey is assinine with crosby and malkin and letang on the roster. Start developing talent for christ's sake. All around the league, there's an infusion of youth and talent. We infuse tanner glass.

I see a montreal team now with major attitude. That used to be us. We used to have team toughness. We used to push the play. We used to outskill teams and outwork them. We have none of that now. We've lost so many key members of our cup team, and kept around for too long so many others. That's on the gm, folks.

There is no easy fix, here. But we should start by getting rid of some of the '09 cup residue. Goodbye, craig adams. So long, brooks orpik. Au revoir, pascal dupuis. Matt cooke. Oh, and you're still mediocre at best, marc-andre fleury.

I'm sorry, but this roster isn't cup worthy. Take a snapshot of the entire league. Look at what the bruins have. And what they have on the way. Look at what the blackhawks have. And what they have on the way. Look at the kings. Blues. Look at some of the up-and-coming teams. There are a lot of rosters that have caught up to and surpassed ours.

But let's go on believing that we're a coaching change away from catching lightning in a bottle (again). Like there aren't 29 other franchises with cup aspirations, too.

We're nowhere near a cup. Hopefully, mario sees this and acts accordingly (assuming it's his call to change gms).

The pens are no longer must-see tv, folks. We're just another recent cup winner trying to hold onto old glory in foolish manner, thinking excuses got in the way of a potential dynasty.

It's not excuses. It's bad management, bad development and bad coaching. And that is no excuse when you can start your roster building with 87 and 71. Absolutely no excuse.

Sorry shero, but you're done in my book. Next man up.
bingo!

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Old
01-29-2013, 09:32 PM
  #112
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Gross game...

+ Depres. I agree with most people here. He looked good.
+ish Vokoun. Looked solid for the whole period he was in, even if there wasn't much pressure. That pass through the crease might have been an issue if someone was there though.

= Martin. I really didn't see him do anything stupid, which is more than I can say about most others out there.
= Adams. He gave some good shifts in there.
=ish Sid made a pretty pass at the end of the game to stop a shutout

- Kennedy. Listen dude, you can't just shoot every shot from a terrible angle. There's this thing called passing that some of your peers got down pretty good.
- The passing. It was there, it just was sloppy, overused in cases, and never really created much.

-- All of this line shuffling. It is not working. You can't just grab 5 powerballs every shift and hope the talent outweighs the idiocy of your "plan"

---- Our PP. I mean, what the heck happened out there? It looked like NYI had control the entire time. When you have 5 minutes of straight powerplay and don't make anything stick, something isn't working.

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01-29-2013, 09:33 PM
  #113
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Well.... as much as I enjoy being right in general, this was no fun.
A giant F for effort to most everyone on the team, and with no effort even the best of coaches would come to look incompetent.

However, that is no excuse as we have nothing working systems wise. Our breakouts are ridiculous, our forecheck ineffective, our forwards seemingly have no idea where their linemates are going at any given time and even when they do our passing is atrocious. Our PP is an unmitigated disaster and to some of us it was always obvious that it would be.
Short of two periods against the Rags and one against the Flyers, all of this has been true pretty much for all the 6 games so far, and if you don't play within a structure you are relying solely on individual ability. We have too few players with enough of that not to suffer.

Again, we are showing every indication of being a poorly coached team, and on top of that the effort shown, perhaps due to little to no accountability seemingly demanded from our established players, says that players are doing a great job of tuning out everything good Bylsma might be preaching.

If all the danger lights about Bylsma hadn't been flashing prior to the start of the season, I would say "patience patience". But they were.
I don't know if Bylsma is as limited a coach as our performances make it appears, but if players don't buy what he is selling it doesn't matter.

Don't know who we should get instead, but I hope he is canned. Who Shero puts in his place will be a bigger and more important acquisition than any trade or free agency signing he could otherwise make, but I would guess that others here are right in saying that the trade will likely come first anyway.

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01-29-2013, 09:33 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
The last few playoffs have been frustrating, and I think there were legitimate reasons for the losses outside of coaching in '10 and '11.

The last few years under DB have featured a lot of impressive individual and team play too.



The team was **** tonight, no doubt. But again, the circumstances behind the beginning of this season haven't been seen since '95. I don't think it's possible to get a representative view of the team at this point of the season. By all accounts Ryan Suter has been garbage so far this year...like I said, it's early.

Let's give it a month. These are proud players who have always - unlike with MT - have been very vocal in their support of both the coach and the system.
So what?

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01-29-2013, 09:33 PM
  #115
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1. can you trade for coaches in the NHL? if so, Hello Tippett
Tippett would be unreal with this team. I wish there were some way it could happen but there isn't. He's not going to bail on PHX and Shero wouldn't ask him to. No idea when his contract is up but he would be ideal.

Tippett + Perry would = a Cup run every other year. No coach lasts forever (except Lindy Ruff) these days but he's as good as we could hope for with our team makeup.


KIRK: what the players say and what they DO are two different things. This was a sandbag effort tonight, no question. Don't need time to make that evaluation.

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01-29-2013, 09:34 PM
  #116
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Let's hear his excuses.

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01-29-2013, 09:36 PM
  #117
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= Martin. I really didn't see him do anything stupid, which is more than I can say about most others out there.
.
Well, Martin's giveaway in the corner gave MAF the opportunity to look bad on the first goal. Other than that, he was pretty much invisible. Not quite the last-year Martin, but not the first-few-games-of-this-year Martin.

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01-29-2013, 09:36 PM
  #118
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These are proud players who have always - unlike with MT - have been very vocal in their support of both the coach and the system.
I don't know. Most of those true-believer guys are gone (Talbot, Rupp, etc).

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01-29-2013, 09:36 PM
  #119
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lot of heart here from dan..... not

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01-29-2013, 09:36 PM
  #120
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Pens have been boring to watch all season. We had to deal with the lockout and got treated like ****, now THIS?

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01-29-2013, 09:36 PM
  #121
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How about asking Disco to take some responsibility, reporters?

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01-29-2013, 09:36 PM
  #122
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I think tonight was just a result of a team coming out terribly flat with the on going rework of the breakout/turnover systems. I mean even the PK which has been great was terrible tonight.

This team just needs a jolt. Coaches want to rest players cuz of this condensed schedule? I'd have them skating lines for the full 45 minutes tomorrow. You don't wanna skate in games? Well, were gonna do all our skating in practice then.

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01-29-2013, 09:37 PM
  #123
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Let's hear his excuses.
He is maddeningly cryptic. Just saw they didn't play well, what's the big deal?

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01-29-2013, 09:38 PM
  #124
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Well.... as much as I enjoy being right in general, this was no fun.
A giant F for effort to most everyone on the team, and with no effort even the best of coaches would come to look incompetent.

However, that is no excuse as we have nothing working systems wise. Our breakouts are ridiculous, our forecheck ineffective, our forwards seemingly have no idea where their linemates are going at any given time and our PP is an unmitigated disaster.
Short of two periods against the Rags and one against the Flyers, all of this has been true pretty much for all the 6 games so far, and if you don't play within a structure you are relying solely on individual ability. We have too few players with enough of that not to suffer.

Again, we are showing every indication of being a poorly coached team, and on top of that the effort shown, perhaps due to little to no accountability seemingly demanded from our established players, says that players are doing a great job of tuning out everything good Bylsma might be preaching.

If all the danger lights about Bylsma hadn't been flashing prior to the start of the season, I would say "patience patience". But they were.
I don't know if Bylsma is as limited a coach as our performances make it appears, but if players don't buy what he is selling it doesn't matter.

Don't know who we should get instead, but I hope he is canned. Who Shero puts in his place will be a bigger and more important acquisition than any trade or free agency signing he could otherwise make, but I would guess that others here are right in saying that the trade will likely come first anyway.
TR, you, me, and a couple of others had seen this dance of the last 25 games before, not just with Therrien but really throughout the league where a coach was on his last leg.

They may have, as you said, showed all the characteristics of a poorly coached team. Now, they're showing the characteristics of a team that isn't buying what the coach is selling anymore, and that starts with #87 and #71.

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01-29-2013, 09:38 PM
  #125
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...this is pathetic. Shut up, Dan.

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