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Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Isles - YIKES

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Old
01-29-2013, 09:44 PM
  #151
#66
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Originally Posted by The Tang View Post
It really seems like the country club atmosphere of the 90s has returned....
Its more than that. Its the loosy goosy attitude on the ice too. Winning sloppy and losing badly was supposed to be a thing of the past. That turn it off and turn it on attitude doesn't cut it anymore.

A lot of people take shots at Mario because of that attitude and maybe they're right.

Another thing is that this is supposed to be Crosbys Penguins. I thought that when the Pens went to back to back finals they kind of took on his hard working, play your guts out vibe. Looking back the Pens had to bring in Billy G to be a team leader and a lot of that balls to the wall play has dwindled down since MT left.

Maybe there's a reason Ziggy, Leclair and Hossa ran from the Pens. Maybe Rex wasn't so bad. Maybe there's a reason why the Pens can't get FA's. Maybe there's a reason that only good guys like Neal, Kunitz and Dupes make it on the Pens...

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01-29-2013, 09:44 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Good news though. The top prospect this year is a defenseman. Perfect time to tank because Shero would be drafting one anyways.
Good. We need more D anyway.

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01-29-2013, 09:45 PM
  #153
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Shero got lucky the Phoenix C's took back Joe M and got 4 mill off the books. He made a colossal error with Martin and sticking by him when it was clear he needed to be moved or gone. He is just a bad player and he is not playing anywhere near a 5 million contract. The roster was a bunch of third liners who are overpaid and I have no idea how you make the changes with to many ham and eggers. Cooke, Kunitz, Dupuis and Kennedy are just not the kind of guys who can have off nights. Adams has to go. Jeffrey has to play as does Despres. The injury to Nisky hurts, but at least Bylsma is forced to play him. Lastly Fleury has to play better. I do trade Orpik while I can if an offer is a good strong winger for Sid.

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01-29-2013, 09:45 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
Maybe this was Evil Shero's plan.
Taking MacKinnon first overall and setting up his 3C model again.
I'd laugh if that actually happened.

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01-29-2013, 09:45 PM
  #155
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- It's really baffling to me how poorly the execution of passing and controlling the puck have been. From the 4th line/3rd pairing all the way up to the likes of Letang, Geno and Crosby. Nobody seems to be able to make a decent pass or receive one either. Guys are constantly getting beat to the puck, knocked off the puck, it's hard to watch.

Not sure what to attribute it all to, perhaps the long layoff but it just looks way worse than I can ever really remember for our skill guys.

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01-29-2013, 09:46 PM
  #156
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I have put in enough years as a soccer fan to not trust the loyalty of any sports star anymore (excl. Aaron Hunt), but I used to tentatively trust Sid to some degree. If even he isn`t playing for Bylsma anymore, I honestly do not know where we stand and it scares me.

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01-29-2013, 09:46 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
Maybe this was Evil Shero's plan.
Taking MacKinnon first overall and setting up his 3C model again.

Nah, Shero would take a D man first overall and plan on using him to trade for a winger.

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01-29-2013, 09:46 PM
  #158
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just watch if the Pens somehow managed to lose enough to land the 1st overall pick. they'll still reach for a player like Josh Morrissey

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01-29-2013, 09:46 PM
  #159
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I just don't know with this team, though. They could easily turn it on and dominate the Rangers on thursday, and we'll all be sitting here scratching our heads.

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01-29-2013, 09:46 PM
  #160
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Well, that was a steaming pile of a performance by the home team.

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01-29-2013, 09:46 PM
  #161
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This team is ridiculous. Glass, Vitale, Neal, Geno had passion for the most part. Where is the heart? Where is ****ing leadership? Sidney Crosby is a joke of a captain. People praise his work ethic and example, only pay no attention to ****ing LEADING. Get in the team’s face. Show ****ing courage and passion. He’s another Lemieux, everyone has to cater to Crosby or he’s done. When things are going awesome, he looks tremendous and leadership is not needed. What about bad times? Totally invisible. He quit on Therrien when Malkin was ****ing pissed and LED them to victory over Tampa. Malkin showed passion and anger this game and always has. He won’t quit. Glass won’t quit, or Vitale or Neal. They have PRIDE.

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01-29-2013, 09:47 PM
  #162
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The power play sucks as always, the defense (which is supposed to be our organizational strength) blows, nobody is playing with any confidence, and Crosby's wingers ****ing blow, etc. The team just isn't as good overall as people thought they were. Losing Staal hurt.

Only one of those is Bylsma's fault, and I'll admit, somebody should be tarred and feathered for the power play of the last few years.

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01-29-2013, 09:47 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Guins71 View Post
Nah, Shero would take a D man first overall and plan on using him to trade for a winger.
Except he'd make sure his coach either benches that d-man so his stock never rises, or just cuts him when he has to be put on waivers so he can keep his favorite undrafted project.

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01-29-2013, 09:48 PM
  #164
Polaris Husky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #66 View Post
Its more than that. Its the loosy goosy attitude on the ice too. Winning sloppy and losing badly was supposed to be a thing of the past. That turn it off and turn it on attitude doesn't cut it anymore.

A lot of people take shots at Mario because of that attitude and maybe they're right.

Another thing is that this is supposed to be Crosbys Penguins. I thought that when the Pens went to back to back finals they kind of took on his hard working, play your guts out vibe. Looking back the Pens had to bring in Billy G to be a team leader and a lot of that balls to the wall play has dwindled down since MT left.

Maybe there's a reason Ziggy, Leclair and Hossa ran from the Pens. Maybe Rex wasn't so bad. Maybe there's a reason why the Pens can't get FA's. Maybe there's a reason that only good guys like Neal, Kunitz and Dupes make it on the Pens...
This lends kind of a sad/creepy aspect to things...

Sid had an on-ice daddy (Billy G), Malkin had an on-ice daddy (Gonchar) in 09... Has either grown into their own man?

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01-29-2013, 09:49 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Here's my *only* problem, Cole: how do we line this opinion up with their first 5 periods of the season where everything from the gap discipline and the power play, to the energy and the effort looked completely different.

I think Bylsma is a big part of the problem, but I can't wrap my head around why they would have picked the 2nd period at home against the Maple Leafs to tune Bylsma out.
They just aren't responding to him. It's that simple. He could be preaching the perfect strategy. It's how you communicate, and right now nobody is listening.

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Originally Posted by Zen Arcade View Post
If they fire Bylsma and bring up Hynes, the same exact issues will be there.
Not exactly. They do not have to.

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Originally Posted by #66 View Post
C'mon my mother would go after Parise and Suter. Was that really the only plan this summer? If he can only go after the stars to make this a better team he better start up an HF profile.
And if it goes the other way? If we went to someone else everyone would be *****ing about signing Semin for 1 year and letting Parise go.

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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post

The team was **** tonight, no doubt. But again, the circumstances behind the beginning of this season haven't been seen since '95. I don't think it's possible to get a representative view of the team at this point of the season. By all accounts Ryan Suter has been garbage so far this year...like I said, it's early.

Let's give it a month. These are proud players who have always - unlike with MT - have been very vocal in their support of both the coach and the system.
I'll give you a month, but it's pretty clear what is happening here.

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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I'd be leery of judging a player's ability based on tonight's game. Almost to a man, they slacked off IMO. They intentionally did not skate hard, made lazy passes, shot the puck too late or too slow, etc.

We have a 5 MINUTE PP... and I think during that time earned 1 SOG, maybe 2. Sorry. We could be playing the Bruins or Rangers out there with a much better D and G against us, and even with the **** PP configuration, get 5 or 6 SOG in 5 minutes. That's on a bad night. On a good night, 10 or 15.

I'm judging DJ based on everything I've ever seen of him.

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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Well.... as much as I enjoy being right in general, this was no fun.
A giant F for effort to most everyone on the team, and with no effort even the best of coaches would come to look incompetent.

However, that is no excuse as we have nothing working systems wise. Our breakouts are ridiculous, our forecheck ineffective, our forwards seemingly have no idea where their linemates are going at any given time and even when they do our passing is atrocious. Our PP is an unmitigated disaster and to some of us it was always obvious that it would be.
Short of two periods against the Rags and one against the Flyers, all of this has been true pretty much for all the 6 games so far, and if you don't play within a structure you are relying solely on individual ability. We have too few players with enough of that not to suffer.

Again, we are showing every indication of being a poorly coached team, and on top of that the effort shown, perhaps due to little to no accountability seemingly demanded from our established players, says that players are doing a great job of tuning out everything good Bylsma might be preaching.

If all the danger lights about Bylsma hadn't been flashing prior to the start of the season, I would say "patience patience". But they were.
I don't know if Bylsma is as limited a coach as our performances make it appears, but if players don't buy what he is selling it doesn't matter.

Don't know who we should get instead, but I hope he is canned. Who Shero puts in his place will be a bigger and more important acquisition than any trade or free agency signing he could otherwise make, but I would guess that others here are right in saying that the trade will likely come first anyway.
If nothing is working, and I definitely blame the players, how can you not see coaching issues? They are not responding. It's literally THAT simple.

I said this in 08 and we won a Cup in 09 after a coaching change. Same thing happens here if they can get a guy in to make great in-game adjustments and get the team to listen/go out and play with desperation.

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01-29-2013, 09:49 PM
  #166
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You can't watch #87 and #71 right now and say they're buying a thing Bylsma has to say.
The good thing is, he probably has a big say in weather Bylsma stays. If his play is any indication of his thoughts towards the system/coachin in general as has been suggested, he can go to Shero, say "I want him out" and it would probably happen. Not on the spot of course. Shero would try to talk him off the ledge for a solid week I'd say.


This team just needs a change. Any change.

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01-29-2013, 09:49 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
Maybe this was Evil Shero's plan.
Taking MacKinnon first overall and setting up his 3C model again.
I don't think even Evil Shero would be so evil as to play MacKinnon at 3C.

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01-29-2013, 09:50 PM
  #168
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I'm sorry Cole, but I don't agree on the point about DJ, but we'll see how it plays out.

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01-29-2013, 09:50 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post


Thanks for a needed chuckle. Nicely done.




Did he actually say that or are you referencing prior comments?




Pretty much. I saw some fire in Geno out there on a few shifts (still a **** game overall for him and almost every other player) (none from Sid), but clearly this was a cluster **** of ultimate proportions. Happens in hockey after things get bad enough. Time for heads to roll. Players too. This locker room needs to be shocked back into existence IMO.

Someone important needs to go, Orpik should lose his A even if not traded, as I said before... people need to understand that past success and "tenure" means dick.
The thing is, you make the coaching move first, then the trades. You don't want the new players walking into a toxic atmosphere.

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01-29-2013, 09:50 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Pittsburgh1776 View Post
This team is ridiculous. Glass, Vitale, Neal, Geno had passion for the most part. Where is the heart? Where is ****ing leadership? Sidney Crosby is a joke of a captain. People praise his work ethic and example, only pay no attention to ****ing LEADING. Get in the team’s face. Show ****ing courage and passion. He’s another Lemieux, everyone has to cater to Crosby or he’s done. When things are going awesome, he looks tremendous and leadership is not needed. What about bad times? Totally invisible. He quit on Therrien when Malkin was ****ing pissed and LED them to victory over Tampa. Malkin showed passion and anger this game and always has. He won’t quit. Glass won’t quit, or Vitale or Neal. They have PRIDE.
I know you're mad right now but Sid doesn't get paid to hit and fight. I'll agree that he's looked lazy out there but so has the players who's job it is to "set the tone" or "lay the big hit".

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01-29-2013, 09:50 PM
  #171
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If they do fire Bylsma I think I'd prefer a veteran coach to someone like John Hynes. I don't know what ones are out there though.

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01-29-2013, 09:50 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I don't think even Evil Shero would be so evil as to play MacKinnon at 3C.
But the 3C model won the Cup one time in the past...

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01-29-2013, 09:52 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Pittsburgh1776 View Post
This team is ridiculous. Glass, Vitale, Neal, Geno had passion for the most part. Where is the heart? Where is ****ing leadership? Sidney Crosby is a joke of a captain. People praise his work ethic and example, only pay no attention to ****ing LEADING. Get in the team’s face. Show ****ing courage and passion..
I actually agree with this to an extend. Crosby is a great leader off the ice and in practice (by example) and sometime in games... but he was anything but a leader tonight and has been anything but all season. Honestly... Geno deserves the C right now more than Sid does and it looks outwardly anyway like he cares more too. Who knows how many trash cans are flying in the room right now though; Sid may be losing his mind. I just wish he'd do it once in a while (to his own team). Tonight was the perfect time. Maybe he does that stuff in the room only to avoid media frenzy.

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01-29-2013, 09:52 PM
  #174
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I have put in enough years as a soccer fan to not trust the loyalty of any sports star anymore (excl. Aaron Hunt), but I used to tentatively trust Sid to some degree. If even he isn`t playing for Bylsma anymore, I honestly do not know where we stand and it scares me.
Why? Once upon a time, he stopped playing for Therrien too. Doesn't matter how good a guy you are . . . coaches come with expiration dates. Even the best ones do. And, Bylsma has reached his expiration date.

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01-29-2013, 09:52 PM
  #175
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We'll know Bylsma's done for sure if Orpik plays the next game on Geno's wing.

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