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Old
01-29-2013, 05:43 PM
  #651
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Best realistic package we could offer for Ryan is Bennett+Despres+1st. Other teams will be able to beat that. And they need centers more than anything.
That is overpayment. You're basically offering 3 1st round quality players for a 25G man. A very good 25G man, but that's a little crazy too. Wasn't it you saying Despres was worth substantially more than a 1st?

Anyway, when teams trade a guy like Clowe they want a good roster player back, almost every time. Despres isn't established enough to be that. IMO they'd want Kunitz or Niskanen or work a 3 way trade or something. I don't think they'd move Clowe for just high-end prospects and picks.

But it is hard to figure what the right price for Clowe would be. He's a "tweener trade". Not a guy you're giving up huge assets for but not a guy you can get for just unproven assets either.

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01-29-2013, 05:50 PM
  #652
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Lol, I meant Bobby Ryan.

And yes, I do think Despres is worth more than a mid-late 1st even in this draft.

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Old
01-29-2013, 05:51 PM
  #653
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My bad... I missed that. You crazy Elmer groupie!

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01-29-2013, 05:53 PM
  #654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
That is overpayment. You're basically offering 3 1st round quality players for a 25G man. A very good 25G man, but that's a little crazy too. Wasn't it you saying Despres was worth substantially more than a 1st?

Anyway, when teams trade a guy like Clowe they want a good roster player back, almost every time. Despres isn't established enough to be that. IMO they'd want Kunitz or Niskanen or work a 3 way trade or something. I don't think they'd move Clowe for just high-end prospects and picks.

But it is hard to figure what the right price for Clowe would be. He's a "tweener trade". Not a guy you're giving up huge assets for but not a guy you can get for just unproven assets either.
As someone else mentioned, it's hard to find trades for the Pens because their NHL roster is very polarized between all-stars+ and "just guys."

I'd be willing to trade Kunitz if they were getting back a long-term solution to the position (ie, not for Clowe), but I'm not sure anyone would be interested in him as a piece.

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Old
01-29-2013, 06:23 PM
  #655
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
As someone else mentioned, it's hard to find trades for the Pens because their NHL roster is very polarized between all-stars+ and "just guys."

I'd be willing to trade Kunitz if they were getting back a long-term solution to the position (ie, not for Clowe), but I'm not sure anyone would be interested in him as a piece.
Clowe isn't in his 20s but at 30 he's got at least 5 good years left in him. I wouldn't sneeze at having a guy like that on the roster for the next 5 years vs. Kunitz. He's not the complete solution because we'd still need one more W probably but he'd make us better and that's what matters.

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01-29-2013, 06:47 PM
  #656
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If you had to move either Morrow or Despres who would you move? If rather move Morrow

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01-29-2013, 07:33 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by penzweiser View Post
If you had to move either Morrow or Despres who would you move? If rather move Morrow
Despres. Morrow is a potential PP QB, which we need in a bad way.

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Old
01-29-2013, 07:51 PM
  #658
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Pens need to act now. We can't afford to keep giving away games because we have to mix and match lines every two shifts. Acquiring a top 6 winger will let us run 4 solid and regular lines.

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01-29-2013, 08:12 PM
  #659
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Well, Lovejoy is gone.

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Old
01-29-2013, 09:31 PM
  #660
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I was watching the Canada-Russia series special on NBCSN tonight and was reminded of the Russian 5 man unit system and got to thinking how Malkin is the last guy you need to be jumbling lines with. It is affecting that line's play. It's time to fix the lineup. 2nd line winger, 1st line winger. I don't give a damn.

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01-29-2013, 10:03 PM
  #661
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At this point, I'd be okay with them moving Despres + Tangradi + ____ for a top 6 winger to play with Sid. Also, call up Bennett and throw him on Sid's other side. Drop Kunitz to the second line back with Geno and Neal and pray they have that chemistry from last year. TK needs to go back to the 3rd line. ROLL IiiiiiT!

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:17 PM
  #662
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If you can get Sid an Bobby Ryan or better caliber, then the only Penguins who are untouchable are Geno, Neal, and Letang.

If the difference between a deal and no deal is Brandon Sutter, then I say it's Vitale's turn to center the third line.

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01-29-2013, 10:30 PM
  #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
If you can get Sid an Bobby Ryan or better caliber, then the only Penguins who are untouchable are Geno, Neal, and Letang.

If the difference between a deal and no deal is Brandon Sutter, then I say it's Vitale's turn to center the third line.
In all honesty.. I'd be fine with Vitale being our 3C. Top 6 needs upgraded and I feel Vitale would be just fine in a larger role. Him and TK on the 3rd line would be great to see.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:36 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by wheelz87 View Post
In all honesty.. I'd be fine with Vitale being our 3C. Top 6 needs upgraded and I feel Vitale would be just fine in a larger role. Him and TK on the 3rd line would be great to see.
Well, it's really a question of what's more important. You've got two thoroughbreds in Sid and Geno. Put them in a position to win the race, even if it means you won't be able to rely as much on your third and fourth lines.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:48 PM
  #665
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Well, it's really a question of what's more important. You've got two thoroughbreds in Sid and Geno. Put them in a position to win the race, even if it means you won't be able to rely as much on your third and fourth lines.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Has any team in recent history, or ever for that matter, ever had the 2 best players in the NHL in their prime at the same time? 2 centers that can absolutely take over any game at any given time. You give them the proper linemates, I truly think the sky is the limit and we can just simply outscore teams. Yea, not the greatest philosophy I know. But come on, how would you stop something like..

Bennett-Crosby-Perry/Ryan
Kulemin-Malkin-Neal

Cooke-Vitale-TK
Glass-Jeffrey-Adams (idc whoever on this line)

And idk how we get above players. Get creative, Ray. We have Sutter, we have 5000000 defensive prospects, 1st rounders. Doesn't have to be exactly those players but you get the idea. Every team has windows to win a championship. Well ours is right now. Every year Sid and Geno get older a year closes on it. Do we want to be dominat for the next 5-7 years or do we want to be competitive for the next 10-12? I just feel we have the ability to do something special with Sid and Geno. I feel an aggressive GM would have gone all out to please them two and make everything else come secondary.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:59 PM
  #666
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Well, Lovejoy is gone.
That is about the only positive we can take away from this game.

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:07 PM
  #667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelz87 View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Has any team in recent history, or ever for that matter, ever had the 2 best players in the NHL in their prime at the same time? 2 centers that can absolutely take over any game at any given time. You give them the proper linemates, I truly think the sky is the limit and we can just simply outscore teams. Yea, not the greatest philosophy I know. But come on, how would you stop something like..

Bennett-Crosby-Perry/Ryan
Kulemin-Malkin-Neal

Cooke-Vitale-TK
Glass-Jeffrey-Adams (idc whoever on this line)

And idk how we get above players. Get creative, Ray. We have Sutter, we have 5000000 defensive prospects, 1st rounders. Doesn't have to be exactly those players but you get the idea. Every team has windows to win a championship. Well ours is right now. Every year Sid and Geno get older a year closes on it. Do we want to be dominat for the next 5-7 years or do we want to be competitive for the next 10-12? I just feel we have the ability to do something special with Sid and Geno. I feel an aggressive GM would have gone all out to please them two and make everything else come secondary.
Ray Shero views a guy like Sutter as untouchable. That's part of the problem.

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01-29-2013, 11:12 PM
  #668
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We don't know who Ray Shero sees as untouchable and I have serious doubts Brandon Sutter is the type of center Anaheim wants anyway. He doesn't look like 2nd line center material to me but it's early. Not taking anything away from the kid. His defense is fabulous. We're 6 games in and we still haven't allowed a 5 on 5 goal with him on the ice.

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:14 PM
  #669
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
We don't know who Ray Shero sees as untouchable and I have serious doubts Brandon Sutter is the type of center Anaheim wants anyway. He doesn't look like 2nd line center material to me but it's early. Not taking anything away from the kid. His defense is fabulous. We're 6 games in and we still haven't allowed a 5 on 5 goal with him on the ice.
I wasn't referencing Anaheim specifically (why I said 'Ryan or better'). My point was that, if we talking about getting that caliber of player for Sid, then Sutter shouldn't be untouchable (although I'm sure he is in Shero's eyes).

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01-29-2013, 11:25 PM
  #670
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The only two players who are untouchable are Sid and Geno. The Pens have won all three of the Cups with decent but not great defensive units. Larry Murphy being the best all around defenseman at the time the cups were won.

I guess what I'm saying is, I wouldn't doubt that Shero or maybe even Mario gets involved and tells Shero to get Sid a good winger. Aka Letang for Perry/Ryan. Unless Shero can put together a package of lesser pieces.

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:39 PM
  #671
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I wasn't referencing Anaheim specifically (why I said 'Ryan or better'). My point was that, if we talking about getting that caliber of player for Sid, then Sutter shouldn't be untouchable (although I'm sure he is in Shero's eyes).
I agree that he shouldn't be untouchable. I don't think he is in Shero's eyes. I just think Shero, like any gm, has certain players that will be harder to pry away from him than others and Sutter is one of them and justifiably so. I remember a number of Hurricanes fans over the last couple years that swore Rutherford loved Brandon Sutter too much to trade him. That all changed when Jordan Staal became available. Ray Shero loved Goligoski and didn't want to trade him but then James Neal became available.

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:51 AM
  #672
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I think we do whatever it takes to get Crosby a winger. Why we didn't this offseason is beyond me.there were way better options than tangradi and Kennedy lol. So it's time for Shero to help our team out and grab a top 6 guy via trade. I don't care if it takes despres, Sutter and a1st for a guy like Ryan our just despres for seto. Just do your job ray and make this team the best possible team you can with the assets that we have.

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01-30-2013, 12:54 AM
  #673
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Ray Shero views a guy like Sutter as untouchable. That's part of the problem.
Does he? I'm not so certain. Sure he likes the three center model, but Sutter isn't Staal. If what he's bringing is all he brings, give or take, any old 3rd line center with less of a name can do the trick. Hopefully there's more to his game than he's shown. I'm not mr watch the hurricanes religiously the last 3 or 4 years, but I seem to remember more from him (though again, he's not Staal).

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01-30-2013, 12:59 AM
  #674
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Shero has to do something to fill the hole in the top 6 but it takes two to make a deal. I doubt Anaheim wants to trade Ryan right now. Imagine if they trade Ryan and then Perry walks in UFA this summer. They'd go from having two franchise wingers to none. I don't think they'll trade Ryan until Perry agrees to an extension and I doubt that happens anytime soon.

The types of guys that are available right now are probably Matt D'Agostini types that are probably upgrades but not significant upgrades. Seto may be available but he'll probably be cheaper if you wait for the Wild to fall out of it. He'd probably cost a really good prospect at the moment but Russo speculated they may even trade him for just picks down the road.

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01-30-2013, 01:06 AM
  #675
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Does he? I'm not so certain. Sure he likes the three center model, but Sutter isn't Staal. If what he's bringing is all he brings, give or take, any old 3rd line center with less of a name can do the trick. Hopefully there's more to his game than he's shown. I'm not mr watch the hurricanes religiously the last 3 or 4 years, but I seem to remember more from him (though again, he's not Staal).
I don't think so. He's a legit shutdown center and those are hard to find. I used to wonder if he was overrated because of being a Sutter too but he is legit defensively. Offensively he's better than he's played to this point. He's just off to a slow start and quite honestly the lack of another top 6 winger or two hurts him because the lines are a total mess. He's trying to find chemistry with linemates but they are constantly being moved off his line because the top two lines are struggling so Bylsma is trying many different combinations.

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