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Zack Kassian Appreciation Thread: Cody Who?

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01-29-2013, 01:14 PM
  #476
Bleach Clean
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One thing to keep in mind with both of these players (Schroeder and Kassian) is that they are more ready to start the year by having played in Chicago.

So when everyone gets acclimated, does their play not look as good by comparison? Time will tell.

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01-29-2013, 01:34 PM
  #477
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The point is to produce NHLers. BUF does it by letting their players run-n-gun to get confidence and to better understand where they are at offensively.


The Griffins actually still play a predominately offensive style. They also give up more goals than the Wolves on average. But that's the besides the point. The point is that they do it their way and produce NHLers. BUF does it their way and produce NHLers. The common thread being producing NHLers. Are the quality of _young_ players better in BUF or DET? DET hasn't produced an Ennis, Myers, Kassian, Foligno in the past few years. So while I agree that BUF's prospects aren't as defensively prepared, everyone still recognizes them as legit NHLers.


I think VAN's inability to produce NHLers at the same frequency has people second guessing everything about their process, top to bottom. From drafting to developing, to organization styles and evaluating single scouts. It's all being picked apart. If VAN had the prowess of either DET or BUF, there wouldn't be as many questions.[/QUOTE]

Young players can compete offensively by cheating a bit on defense. It does not help the team win in the NHL. It really is false offense. I would say Ennis Myers Kassian Foligno would be good players coming out of any organization. Kassian in fact looks like he has taken a step forward after playing with the Wolves. Perhaps if you want to inflate your prospects worth for trade, playing an offensive style would help that. However, i would prefer our prospects start defensively responsible. If anything develop them slowly so you get a good contract after the ELC is up. It is good for the team and the salary structure. If they can outplay vets like Kassian is, give them a larger role. Hodgson is likely to put up some good numbers this year, and likely will get a large contract. At the same time as Buffalo misses the playoffs because he is one of their top centers. Until Buffalo's team start winning consistently i do not think we should use them as a model to follow. Do not give your prospects shortcuts to the show, make them earn their spot and their promotions.

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01-29-2013, 01:38 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
So when everyone gets acclimated, does their play not look as good by comparison?
Hopefully the added confidence coming from a good start will help keep them at a high level.

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01-29-2013, 01:44 PM
  #479
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@Catamarca Livin: Agree. Great point about the ELC's actually - I think Gillis mentioned it in that interview as well?

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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
The point is to produce NHLers. BUF does it by letting their players run-n-gun to get confidence and to better understand where they are at offensively.


The Griffins actually still play a predominately offensive style. They also give up more goals than the Wolves on average. But that's the besides the point. The point is that they do it their way and produce NHLers. BUF does it their way and produce NHLers. The common thread being producing NHLers. Are the quality of _young_ players better in BUF or DET? DET hasn't produced an Ennis, Myers, Kassian, Foligno in the past few years. So while I agree that BUF's prospects aren't as defensively prepared, everyone still recognizes them as legit NHLers.


I think VAN's inability to produce NHLers at the same frequency has people second guessing everything about their process, top to bottom. From drafting to developing, to organization styles and evaluating single scouts. It's all being picked apart. If VAN had the prowess of either DET or BUF, there wouldn't be as many questions.
Definitely Buffalo can produce NHL'ers - at the very least. But I also wonder about the process. How good is it for the Sabres if Ruff is teaching them how to play without the puck as opposed to having them learn it first as a point of focus down on the farm? With Pegula's financial backing, they don't have the excuse of not being able to go for it and he's upped the expectations for that franchise. They have trouble making the playoffs consistently and they don't look to be a particularly good two-way team. Is that on Ruff or their farm team's coach?


As for the Wings, I'd be interested to know who's more responsible for teaching their prospects defence: the Griffins' head coach or Babcock? For guys like Hudler, Filppula, Ericsson etc. 'Cos here the view is that you don't get minutes until the coach can trust you defensively. Whether that's right or wrong depends, but for Detroit - a team that wants to contend annually - I'd be surprised if they didn't expect a little more out of their rookies before letting them play.


I also forgot to bring up your point about Coho vs. JS in your previous post, but an interesting comparison nonetheless. Is Hodgson an NHL player? Seems safe to say that he is. But would he be better off having paid more attention to his own zone when he was with the Moose? Probably, given how he already has NHL-calibre skills which were never in question from the day he was drafted, I don't think.


We all know about JS's maturation into a complete player last season. Maybe Cody won't ever become a good two-way player though he has the smarts to be at least a decent one, but the point of the minors is also to round out your game, no? We even saw Kassian (staying on topic ) on the PK for a bit actually on the Wolves though who knows if that ever becomes significant? Certainly you rely on the strengths that got you here but in the defense-oriented playoffs it can only help to have your skilled players be proficient both ways.


Another point is, I think that for good players they'll always find a way to be near or at the top in terms of scoring anyway even if they play on a defensive-minded team. Even if that team has a relative lack of talent and a generally poor PP. Much like how it was for Shirokov with the Moose when he was in the system, who I think should have got more of a look than he did. Noel had him focus on learning to play without the puck and he improved greatly. He's one of the most effective players in the KHL now, apparently.


At the end of the day though, I wish our drafting was good enough that we could legitimately call into question how good such a run-'n-gun system would be for the farm team anyway.


Last edited by vanuck: 01-29-2013 at 02:36 PM.
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01-29-2013, 01:44 PM
  #480
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Ryan Kesler? Or is he on the other side of that "five or six years"?

Otherwise I agree.. all cake and very little icing.
Kesler could probably fit in that time frame. I was really concentrating more on the 27 and unders which is a who's who of bottom six forwards. Guys that you need and are certainly useful but nothing to truly get excited over. Except, IMO, for Kassian (and before him Hodgson). And Edler.

If Kassian and Edler develop into true core star players all of a sudden things don't look that bad. But they need to continue developing and obviously Edler is closer than Kassian to be that guy.

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01-29-2013, 03:19 PM
  #481
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I heard Gillis mention again last night that playing with Kassian is something the Sedins have asked for. Something to think about when looking to move him off that line.

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01-29-2013, 03:25 PM
  #482
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I heard Gillis mention again last night that playing with Kassian is something the Sedins have asked for. Something to think about when looking to move him off that line.
Well that changes things. I think Burrows is starting to shake the rust off, but I really think he can play on any line and still be effective.

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01-29-2013, 03:25 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I heard Gillis mention again last night that playing with Kassian is something the Sedins have asked for. Something to think about when looking to move him off that line.
Heard that also.

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01-29-2013, 03:33 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I heard Gillis mention again last night that playing with Kassian is something the Sedins have asked for. Something to think about when looking to move him off that line.
Yes i heard that and im not surprised. Hes getting to places they want someone to be.

His goal last night was excellent in that fact wasnt pretty but thats not the point

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01-29-2013, 03:34 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
The other problem is that guys like Raymond and perhaps Schroeder may not be able to contribute against the big, physical teams when it matters. So while Raymond is most definitely an NHL player and a pretty good one at that, I still wouldn't hesitate replacing him with 20 goal scoring size (which is why I think they got Booth to tell you the truth).

Yup. I've always felt that a consistent 20 goal scorer with size is ten times better than a small consistent 30 goal scorer.

Booth has size and so does Kassian. If both of these guys can be made to score 20 goals a yr consistently, even if they only get 2nd line minutes with Kesler (as opposed to riding with the Sedins), that would vault Nucks over the top.

I think that 2nd line part is important. It's not really 'secondary scoring' if Kassian can only perform when on the Sedin line. He (and Booth) have to perform independently of the Sedins.

Yeah sure, once in a while when the Sedins are in a rut and getting pushed around (or if Burrows is hurt or slumping), you can throw Kassian or Booth on their wing to give a different look, but the majority of their production has to come from riding the 2nd line and getting 2nd line minutes and opportunities.


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01-29-2013, 03:56 PM
  #486
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Yes i heard that and im not surprised. Hes getting to places they want someone to be.

His goal last night was excellent in that fact wasnt pretty but thats not the point
Exactly. He has the size, speed and IQ, to get to the places the Sedin's want him to be in. Last night was a great example because not only did he score, but he had 2-3 other glorious chances.

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01-29-2013, 04:05 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
Exactly. He has the size, speed and IQ, to get to the places the Sedin's want him to be in. Last night was a great example because not only did he score, but he had 2-3 other glorious chances.
Yeah thats what i saw when i finally watched the game. I was thinking he could have easily had a hatrick had he had better shots. He getting where he needs to be and as long as he keeps doing thst im happy.

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01-29-2013, 07:20 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
Exactly. He has the size, speed and IQ, to get to the places the Sedin's want him to be in. Last night was a great example because not only did he score, but he had 2-3 other glorious chances.
It wouldn't surprise me to find out that another motive of theirs was the Canucks' future. They know how important Kassian is to Vancouver and playing with them could bring out the skill-plays mindset from him rather than have him become a crash and banger on the third line.

That and the enormous pressure on Zack to perform after shipping out Cody for him. Getting some tap in goals might keep the fanbase at bay.

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01-29-2013, 07:21 PM
  #489
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It wouldn't surprise me to find out that another motive of theirs was the Canucks' future. They know how important Kassian is to Vancouver and playing with them could bring out the skill-plays mindset from him rather than have him become a crash and banger on the third line.

That and the enormous pressure on Zack to perform after shipping out Cody for him. Getting some tap in goals might keep the fanbase at bay.
Or maybe they are tired of getting pummelled?

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01-29-2013, 07:25 PM
  #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I heard Gillis mention again last night that playing with Kassian is something the Sedins have asked for. Something to think about when looking to move him off that line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Yes i heard that and im not surprised. Hes getting to places they want someone to be.

His goal last night was excellent in that fact wasnt pretty but thats not the point
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
Heard that also.
Am I hearing things?

I heard him say something along the lines of management discussed it, approached the Sedins about it, and they were excited about it. I never heard that the Sedins approached management and asked for it, how do you think that'd sit with Burrows?

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01-29-2013, 08:57 PM
  #491
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Am I hearing things?

I heard him say something along the lines of management discussed it, approached the Sedins about it, and they were excited about it. I never heard that the Sedins approached management and asked for it, how do you think that'd sit with Burrows?

Not very well. You have to filter some of the information on here, go directly to the source if you can. Sometimes bias can colour "news" before it reaches you.


Anyone have a direct link to the quote? I'm guessing Luck 6 is correct here, just a hunch.

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01-29-2013, 11:27 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Not very well. You have to filter some of the information on here, go directly to the source if you can. Sometimes bias can colour "news" before it reaches you.


Anyone have a direct link to the quote? I'm guessing Luck 6 is correct here, just a hunch.
I don't think there's a link to the quote anywhere as MG was talking about this on TSN during the intermission. Might be on TSN's website, who knows. Anyways, I'm pretty sure MG approached the Sedins about trying Kassian with them, not vice-versa.

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01-29-2013, 11:29 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Not very well. You have to filter some of the information on here, go directly to the source if you can. Sometimes bias can colour "news" before it reaches you.


Anyone have a direct link to the quote? I'm guessing Luck 6 is correct here, just a hunch.
Quote:
The Sedins asked him to train with them in June, and Kassian travelled back to Vancouver from his off-season home in Windsor, Ont., to see how two of the best players in the world do it.

“That came out of our wrap-up dinner last year,” Gillis explained. “I was talking to Henrik and he was telling me about what he thought of Zack's potential. Then Danny joined us. . . and they asked if it would be OK for them to invite Zack to train with them. It was better than OK; it was great. They both see tremendous potential in Zack and they want to do everything they can to help him. It's true leadership, unselfish and generous.”

“Both me and Danny just had a good feeling about him,” Henrik said. “He's been through some tough things in the past. But meeting him last year and seeing him and being around him, we started to like him as a guy and a player. I've never been traded, but talking to a lot of players who have been traded, it's tough. And in Zack's situation, where he gets traded for Cody, there's so much expectations and that's tough for him, too.”
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Z...#ixzz2JQhTlfuA

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01-29-2013, 11:34 PM
  #494
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Love or hate their style of play, the Sedins are two of the best individuals to ever wear the Canucks jersey.

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01-29-2013, 11:50 PM
  #495
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Really liked that Bertuzzi esque push off move he made in front of the net to make room for himself. Didn't score but that's where he'll get his goals from and that move is especially effective.

That play he and Daniel created would have been a beauty of a goal. Really says a lot about his playmaking ability when he's able to make those kinds of plays with two of the smartest hockey players in the world.

When Kesler comes back, Kassian could possibly be that playmaker that the second line desperately needs. Personally I would keep him with the twins, but it's nice to have that option anyway.

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01-29-2013, 11:56 PM
  #496
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Wow. Those guys are such unreal human beings. I also love the double option now. Of burrows and kassian.

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01-30-2013, 12:06 AM
  #497
Lonny Bohonos
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Am I hearing things?

I heard him say something along the lines of management discussed it, approached the Sedins about it, and they were excited about it. I never heard that the Sedins approached management and asked for it, how do you think that'd sit with Burrows?
Who gives a **** how it sits with Burrows? Like I said the other day I dont get this idea that Burrows has some sort of god given right to the position.

If Burrows has hurt feelings too bad so sad.

Its nice to see the that Sedins are taking a leadership role and saying "heres what we think should happen."

I also imagine the Sedins have some sort of mentoring angle on this as well. Something that Kass will greatly benefit from.

Will Kass be the guy on the number #1 line for the whole season? Probably not. Will he go on to dominate the NHL from this moment on? Probably not at this point.

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01-30-2013, 12:07 AM
  #498
Lonny Bohonos
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Really liked that Bertuzzi esque push off move he made in front of the net to make room for himself. Didn't score but that's where he'll get his goals from and that move is especially effective.

That play he and Daniel created would have been a beauty of a goal. Really says a lot about his playmaking ability when he's able to make those kinds of plays with two of the smartest hockey players in the world.

When Kesler comes back, Kassian could possibly be that playmaker that the second line desperately needs. Personally I would keep him with the twins, but it's nice to have that option anyway.
Could be wrong but I dont see Kass working all that well with Kesler and Booth. Theyd need to slow their game down and play a lot more methodically.

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01-30-2013, 12:38 AM
  #499
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Burrows would be the ideal playmaker for Kesler and Booth IMO.

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01-30-2013, 12:39 AM
  #500
Lonny Bohonos
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Burrows would be the ideal playmaker for Kesler and Booth IMO.
I think hes a much better fit. But we wont know until Kass is tried with them.

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