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Old
01-30-2013, 12:10 AM
  #426
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Easy. He stopped for the Olympics and he decided not to resume after. Perhaps he was starting to suffer some of the negative effects of steroids and he decided it wasn't worth it any more. He does have the contract after all.

I'm obviously not saying this is definitely true. It just seems to be an increasingly valid explanation for his decline.

If it is in fact true, however, I'm sure Ovie is just as shocked as we are by how far it has made him fall. In fact, I think it could be contributing to his apparent lack of desire these days. The guy is probably pretty crestfallen by all this. He took out an advance on his talents and now he's paying back far more than he bargained for.
He was number 1 pick, how u then explain this fact about his play? He was brilliant kid at hockey, no need.

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01-30-2013, 12:13 AM
  #427
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That's a good point. I heard of this guy in 2000. He was a dynamic 14 year old. Something is ****ed up.

He needs some confidence...keep it simple.

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01-30-2013, 12:16 AM
  #428
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Easy. He stopped for the Olympics and he decided not to resume after. Perhaps he was starting to suffer some of the negative effects of steroids and he decided it wasn't worth it any more. He does have the contract after all.

I'm obviously not saying this is definitely true. It just seems to be an increasingly valid explanation for his decline.

If it is in fact true, however, I'm sure Ovie is just as shocked as we are by how far it has made him fall. In fact, I think it could be contributing to his apparent lack of desire these days. The guy is probably pretty crestfallen by all this. He took out an advance on his talents and now he's paying back far more than he bargained for.
In fairness to you...Oates and CSN cited effort just a few days ago. Now they're trying to pretend it didn't happen. Lack of effort seems to be at least some of the problem.

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01-30-2013, 12:16 AM
  #429
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I just wonder where this Ovechkin fiasco is headed?

It could potentially get much worse.

That's what really worries me.

If his game continues to go South the Caps franchise could be in real trouble.

If I'm the owner I'm pretty close to freaking out about now.

It's such an astonishing turn of events.

Bye the way I think the theory that it's all mental is completely absurd.

Dude is slower and less powerful. That part of his decline isn't mental.

Maybe he only spends 1/8 of the time he used to spend in the gym?

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01-30-2013, 12:20 AM
  #430
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Contracts should be performance based. I.e, the player needs to meet milestones to get the full salary, lol. Why should any player just sign a big contract and then decide to not play well..

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01-30-2013, 12:21 AM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Icetime View Post
I just wonder where this Ovechkin fiasco is headed?

It could potentially get much worse.

That's what really worries me.

If his game continues to go South the Caps franchise could be in real trouble.

If I'm the owner I'm pretty close to freaking out about now.

It's such an astonishing turn of events.

Bye the way I think the theory that it's all mental is completely absurd.

Dude is slower and less powerful. That part of his decline isn't mental.

Maybe he only spends 1/8 of the time he used to spend in the gym?
Thats why I think the Caps need to figure out whether this is temporary or permanent, cos you don't want all 29 teams to realize it when you do.

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01-30-2013, 12:22 AM
  #432
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He was number 1 pick, how u then explain this fact about his play?
I think if Ovie did in fact use PEDs he would have been taking them since before he was drafted.

-The National Institute of Drug Abuse shows in recent studies that 325,000 teenage boys and 175,000 teenage girls are using steroids.


I also think that would help explain Ovie's apparent long term mood swings over his career.

-For example, abusing steroids in the teenage years of development has shown to affect the brain’s ability to properly produce serotonin, the enzyme tied with our sense of well-being. This tampering with serotonin can lead to permanent increases in depression and aggression.

The bolded is from this article

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01-30-2013, 12:22 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Icetime View Post
I just wonder where this Ovechkin fiasco is headed?

It could potentially get much worse.

That's what really worries me.

If his game continues to go South the Caps franchise could be in real trouble.

If I'm the owner I'm pretty close to freaking out about now.

It's such an astonishing turn of events.

Bye the way I think the theory that it's all mental is completely absurd.

Dude is slower and less powerful. That part of his decline isn't mental.

Maybe he only spends 1/8 of the time he used to spend in the gym?
In real trouble...nah. We will win our share of games...not. called the SouthLeast for nothing.

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01-30-2013, 12:26 AM
  #434
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He plays for his nationàl teams.
Yeah perhaps I was laying it on a bit to thick. He's as pro Russian as they come. Losing Semin, who he probably has been closest on this team with given that they came up together and were the only 2 Russians of the same age group isn't helping his enthusiasm. It's not to blame wholly but these things add up overall. And beyond enthusiasm he doesn't have all that much. Everything he gets he gets from going balls to the wall.

As far as last year, for all his sucking he still managed 38 goals on a team that had no offensive system and with Backstrom out most of the year. His assists did drop precipitously but AFAIK to get an assist you need a linemate to score a goal. Who did he have last year beyond Brouwer (decent roleplayer but there's a reason Chicago didn't hesitate to give him up rather than pay him 2.5 million) and Marcus "Marleau" Johansson? If he goes to last year's form with decent linemates he's a 40g 40a player at least.

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01-30-2013, 12:28 AM
  #435
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Has this question ever been asked to ovi or gmgm strait up? The decline? Pretty sad when Wolski and Ward are better at keeping the puck along the boards.

This is not the bull in a china shop anymore. The empty net chance he had against Buffalo it was one on one with Ennis...one easy power move and he couldve stick handled over the goal line and he wont even use his size.

Im done with Ovechkin. Go back to Russia and count your money.

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01-30-2013, 12:51 AM
  #436
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Haha. Talk about some depressing post game talk.

I bet fans of other teams are like, "Dude, you gotta check out the Caps' board. They're in full meltdown mode."

Hopefully this team and it's Captain are just in the protracted growing pains of trying to play disciplined hockey and have fun doing it.

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01-30-2013, 01:05 AM
  #437
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Easy. He stopped for the Olympics and he decided not to resume after. Perhaps he was starting to suffer some of the negative effects of steroids and he decided it wasn't worth it any more. He does have the contract after all.

I'm obviously not saying this is definitely true. It just seems to be an increasingly valid explanation for his decline.

If it is in fact true, however, I'm sure Ovie is just as shocked as we are by how far it has made him fall. In fact, I think it could be contributing to his apparent lack of desire these days. The guy is probably pretty crestfallen by all this. He took out an advance on his talents and now he's paying back far more than he bargained for.
The contract shouldn't have influenced him to stop. If he was using drugs, he was doing so to be the best player in the world, not to make money or gain job security. That's what drives him; that's why he flew right over when the CBA deal was reached, rather than contemplate staying in the KHL. That's also why he wouldn't have let himself fall the way he has if such a simple fix as resuming the doping he had so easily gotten away with were available. I think he has glaring mental weaknesses and he doesn't know how to approach them in a mature way so as to address their effect on him. He's in a serious and deep psychological funk, probably compounded by being in sub-ideal physical shape (which he lacks the motivation to get into). It's a long way from that kind of thing for someone who lacks the mental maturity and probably intelligence to realize and combat his condition.

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01-30-2013, 01:30 AM
  #438
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This has been going on for years.

"It a post-Olympics slump"......"He's saving himself for the playoffs"......."He has an undisclosed injury"......."He's just getting bad bounces and bad breaks"..........."He'll break out of the slump at any moment".

The fact is.........he is done. Trade him for a bag of pucks. Buy him out. Whatever. Just get him off the team and move on. He is the worst player on the ice. Watch the games. He is the worst player on the ice.

For the team to improve............to contend........they have to move beyone the Ovechkin era.

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01-30-2013, 01:56 AM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Yeah perhaps I was laying it on a bit to thick. He's as pro Russian as they come. Losing Semin, who he probably has been closest on this team with given that they came up together and were the only 2 Russians of the same age group isn't helping his enthusiasm. It's not to blame wholly but these things add up overall. And beyond enthusiasm he doesn't have all that much. Everything he gets he gets from going balls to the wall.

As far as last year, for all his sucking he still managed 38 goals on a team that had no offensive system and with Backstrom out most of the year. His assists did drop precipitously but AFAIK to get an assist you need a linemate to score a goal. Who did he have last year beyond Brouwer (decent roleplayer but there's a reason Chicago didn't hesitate to give him up rather than pay him 2.5 million) and Marcus "Marleau" Johansson? If he goes to last year's form with decent linemates he's a 40g 40a player at least.
Alex,

I've often thought that too much importance is attached to assists.

In what other sport could the final score end as 2-1, yet potentially have 9 different players take points from it?

And yes, he managed 38 goals last year. But however good that amount is, still, his numbers are in decline.

While it's a hypothesis that he was using, and quit, PED's, certainly... there is empirical evidence in the adjustments in play we've seen teams make against him that would persuade that a very good portion of his decline is due to improved defenceive tactics. And given his limited offenceive diversity, it may not be fixable.

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01-30-2013, 02:06 AM
  #440
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Haha. Talk about some depressing post game talk.

I bet fans of other teams are like, "Dude, you gotta check out the Caps' board. They're in full meltdown mode."

Hopefully this team and it's Captain are just in the protracted growing pains of trying to play disciplined hockey and have fun doing it.
It's not a meltdown.

It's the realization that the team simply... is not improving.

At some point, the team will play better, and win their fair share of games.

And yes, a miracle involving a lot of luck could occur.

But the odds of this are pretty low, and we're stuck in a rut as to roster philosophy.

And anyway you slice it, it's fair to say that many of the obvious issues such as D, ought to have been somewhat if not fully corrected by now.

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01-30-2013, 02:11 AM
  #441
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This has been going on for years.

"It a post-Olympics slump"......"He's saving himself for the playoffs"......."He has an undisclosed injury"......."He's just getting bad bounces and bad breaks"..........."He'll break out of the slump at any moment".

The fact is.........he is done. Trade him for a bag of pucks. Buy him out. Whatever. Just get him off the team and move on. He is the worst player on the ice. Watch the games. He is the worst player on the ice.

For the team to improve............to contend........they have to move beyone the Ovechkin era.
Done? Nah.

He can play for many more years and consistently put up 20 or more goals a year.

But he's never going to win a Selke, and has probably seen his last scoring title.

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01-30-2013, 02:24 AM
  #442
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Alex,

I've often thought that too much importance is attached to assists.

In what other sport could the final score end as 2-1, yet potentially have 9 different players take points from it?

And yes, he managed 38 goals last year. But however good that amount is, still, his numbers are in decline.

While it's a hypothesis that he was using, and quit, PED's, certainly... there is empirical evidence in the adjustments in play we've seen teams make against him that would persuade that a very good portion of his decline is due to improved defenceive tactics. And given his limited offenceive diversity, it may not be fixable.
Decline for him was pretty much inevitable to an extent. Look at his skillset. His hockey IQ is average (some would say below average). His skating isn't particularly good even though he can gain the momentum of a runaway train. No backhand, no backwards skating. He basically has an assortment of cool looking moves he can carry out when he's super pumped up. When he's not pumped up and goes by his natural skills his choppiness comes to the forefront. As long as he maintains a hunger for the game and the desire to impress people he's elite. Did people see him maintaining that hunger into his 30s, especially in the face of accumulating failures and disappointments? How much of his enthusiasm simply came from being a young kid dominating the show and impressing everybody? That stuff fades away when you get older.

That said, he's still clearly a very strong player when he has enthusiasm. He still has it in the playoffs and he had it in Russia during the lockout. The question is how much of it can be brought to the forefront by GMGM, and how much he has to get out of his head. I'm not of the opinion that it's up to him to suck it up or go home, since in that case he will go home and we will have wasted his enormous potential. I think we can bring him back in the regular season by putting together a deep roster that could comfortably win games without him. Then the pressure in the regular season drops substantially, teams cover him less, he has more fun and therefore more enthusiasm. Look at the 2nd period today when they were up and he was dicking around with Crabb and Beagle, just broken play after broken play in the offensive zone. He whiffed on a centering pass, they couldn't get anything off of his passes, but that's the kind of position we need to put him (with more skilled linemates than Beagle and Crabb obviously). I'd put him with Ribeiro and Ward for now, give him more than a couple of games to adjust to them and try to find better complements in the offseason. Perhaps get a Russian contingent of guys like Kulemin, Anisimov or Tyutin that play the game the right way and whanot.

He's in decline, but, if, say, we tweak stuff around and manage to bring him to a 40-40 regular season level and playoff animal (which he still is even if his rushes rarely work now), is he worth keeping around? I'd say so. In the playoffs you want to squeeze as much as you can out of every roster spot, and Ovechkin has it.

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01-30-2013, 02:31 AM
  #443
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Decline for him was pretty much inevitable to an extent. Look at his skillset. His hockey IQ is average (some would say below average). His skating isn't particularly good even though he can gain the momentum of a runaway train. No backhand, no backwards skating. He basically has an assortment of cool looking moves he can carry out when he's super pumped up. When he's not pumped up and goes by his natural skills his choppiness comes to the forefront. As long as he maintains a hunger for the game and the desire to impress people he's elite. Did people see him maintaining that hunger into his 30s, especially in the face of accumulating failures and disappointments? How much of his enthusiasm simply came from being a young kid dominating the show and impressing everybody? That stuff fades away when you get older.

That said, he's still clearly a very strong player when he has enthusiasm. He still has it in the playoffs and he had it in Russia during the lockout. The question is how much of it can be brought to the forefront by GMGM, and how much he has to get out of his head. I'm not of the opinion that it's up to him to suck it up or go home, since in that case he will go home and we will have wasted his enormous potential. I think we can bring him back in the regular season by putting together a deep roster that could comfortably win games without him. Then the pressure in the regular season drops substantially, teams cover him less, he has more fun and therefore more enthusiasm. Look at the 2nd period today when they were up and he was dicking around with Crabb and Beagle, just broken play after broken play in the offensive zone. He whiffed on a centering pass, they couldn't get anything off of his passes, but that's the kind of position we need to put him (with more skilled linemates than Beagle and Crabb obviously). I'd put him with Ribeiro and Ward for now, give him more than a couple of games to adjust to them and try to find better complements in the offseason. Perhaps get a Russian contingent of guys like Kulemin, Anisimov or Tyutin that play the game the right way and whanot.

He's in decline, but, if, say, we tweak stuff around and manage to bring him to a 40-40 regular season level and playoff animal (which he still is even if his rushes rarely work now), is he worth keeping around? I'd say so. In the playoffs you want to squeeze as much as you can out of every roster spot, and Ovechkin has it.
Worth keeping? I'd wager that even if the answer became 'no'... moving him would be no easy matter. Too many years at too many dollars... and he's paid whether he scores 38 or 3. Such is the foolishness of the never-ending contract.

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01-30-2013, 03:01 AM
  #444
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Wait..

What the hell happened to this thread? Another loss and Ovechkin is being called out for PEDs? Just because some of the popular athletes have used it in other sports, provides no case to believe Ovechkin does.

Mood swings are popular in most people. Just ask my ex.

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01-30-2013, 04:28 AM
  #445
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Wait..

What the hell happened to this thread? Another loss and Ovechkin is being called out for PEDs? Just because some of the popular athletes have used it in other sports, provides no case to believe Ovechkin does.

Mood swings are popular in most people. Just ask my ex.
I really see no reason he went from unstopable to a liability on the ice.

The goal he scored last game any nhl player should hit that wide open of a net.

I pointed out earlier that if hes not willing to take it physicaly to Tyler Ennis to earn an eng....were ****ed.

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01-30-2013, 04:48 AM
  #446
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You know whats funny, is other teams are doing bad.

In fact 4 of the teams in the top 8 didn't make the playoffs last year.

Lets blame Ovechkin. What did Backstrom do though? Getting a secondary assist? BFD.

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01-30-2013, 05:53 AM
  #447
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Wait..

What the hell happened to this thread? Another loss and Ovechkin is being called out for PEDs? Just because some of the popular athletes have used it in other sports, provides no case to believe Ovechkin does.

Mood swings are popular in most people. Just ask my ex.
Ted didn't tell you about the PED link with OV? I'll make sure who ever was in charge of relaying that is fired brb.

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01-30-2013, 07:14 AM
  #448
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Yeah..a puffy water retaining 240....look now....leaner not as much mass...
He was a lean 212 his rookie year.

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01-30-2013, 07:16 AM
  #449
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The PED theory holds water. He was a beast BEFORE the last olympics and never totally regained form. He's got the lifetime contract. NHL testing isn't the most stringent. There were reports of a steroids doctor w ties to the Caps. His decline has been swift and precipitous. And doping, in case you haven't noticed, is rampant in sports.

Hate to break your bubble but it's the most compelling speculation out there and it would explain everything. You want me to believe he just lost his passion for the game and now he can't even coral a hockey puck?

He looks slower, weaker shots, softer hits, less aggressive and less focused. Nah man he stopped taking steroids or something similar before the last Olympics, never went back on them and the rest is history.

We may never know but that's the best explanation I can see. I don't know why everyone continues to bury their heads in the sand when it comes to their sports heroes and doping.
It's not compelling at all, because it provides no reason why he'd have passed all of the doping tests for international comps, and doesn't explain why he'd stop.

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01-30-2013, 07:18 AM
  #450
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glad to see the ov talk is where it is. i had suggested last season that the caps needed to think about trading him. the answer was a resounding no. that leonsis would never do it because of the revenue 8 brings in.

see it now. ov is not going to be bringing in revenue playing like this. skating with beagle and crabb will only add to last year's benching with a lead from hunter as a constant drumbeat distraction from the media.

its pretty obvious to me that the team is competitive. as they get used to the way oates wants them to play, they improve. they lost in ottawa in a game good teams lose. one bad play followed by one bad ref call on the road followed by a bad bounce on the penalty kill. if they win in toronto, its no big deal.

btw....not to go unnoticed is that backstrom only has 2 assists both in one game. so he has been shutout in more games than has ovechkin.

i dont think ovechkin is interested anymore.

oh and contracts based on performance??? remember the lockout? the nhlpa would NEVER sign up for that.

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