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David Desharnais Discussion (Slow Start & Contact Talk)

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:12 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
I may be misunderstanding this debate, but people are knocking Desharnais for racking up 60 pts against 'easy' minutes. But why would a coach give his top-scoring line hard minutes?

Isn't the point of line matchups to try to get your best-scoring line on the ice with the opposition's weakest line? Wouldn't that same 'easy minutes' argument apply to most teams' high-scoring lines?
Most top lines don't get managed like DD did unless they are very defensively suspect. He was comparable to how rookie RNH and struggling Ovechkin was getting used. Modern top lines usually have some kind of power vs power element to their usage.

A soft minutes offensive line is typically a 2nd or 3rd offensive unit and not a primary one. Its tremendously effective at making a good ES team when you have the depth to have one after you've stacked up 2 hard minutes lines. This was the key to MTL's temporary 5 on 5 dominance at the beginning of 2011-12 and why those Philly teams with Richards, Carter, Giroux and Briere were so consistently dangerous.

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01-29-2013, 11:14 PM
  #177
Et le But
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As far as Desharnais goes, he pretty much deserves until Pacioretty comes back to be written off. Not having Patches to carry possession for that line is not a very good excuse, but Cole isn't what he was last year either. I'd still like to see him on the wing - DD is decent at faceoffs sure, but his defense just isn't good, and not because of a lack of effort. He made some good defensive plays too, but he's getting pushed around.

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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Most top lines don't get managed like DD did unless they are very defensively suspect. He was comparable to how rookie RNH and struggling Ovechkin was getting used. Modern top lines usually have some kind of power vs power element to their usage.

A soft minutes offensive line is typically a 2nd or 3rd offensive unit and not a primary one. Its tremendously effective at making a good ES team when you have the depth to have one after you've stacked up 2 hard minutes lines. This was the key to MTL's temporary 5 on 5 dominance at the beginning of 2011-12 and why those Philly teams with Richards, Carter, Giroux and Briere were so consistently dangerous.
The thing is, calling that line the first line was based on how horrible our winger depth was last year. Despite his slump, Plekanec really wasn't that far behind those three in points, the difference was every winger outside of that one line got consistently dominated out there.

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:05 AM
  #178
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Pacioretty's sickness was a blessing in disguise...this could actually save us a lot of money (breaking up the DD line).
Now we get to see what DD can do without Pacioretty.

I don't want to pay DD $4mil/year or $5mil/year (we need $$$ for Subban, Galcheyuk, Gallagher,etc...
DD is crafty but he needs to be surrounded by 2 big power forwards...we need balance for all 3-4 lines... glad that line was finally separated to see what DD can do before he asks for big $$$$.
This team doesn't/shouldn't revolve around DD and his needs (to me it's all about Galchenyuk, Pleks, Eller, Leblanc...keep 5'6 DD but at a minimum salary...imo).

p.s.: get well Pacioretty (he's a strong one).

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01-30-2013, 12:09 AM
  #179
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Now I'm going to switch sides a bit and not that Desharnais is handly outshooting his opposition on ES so far this year. Its really a bout of Gomez-itis on his finishing chances that's keeping them from putting up totals.

Good chance he rebounds on that. Getting Subban back should really help him, having at least one stud blueliner on the ice nearly every shift should do wonders for Desharnais overall game.

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01-30-2013, 12:53 AM
  #180
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I have a feeling we will see Cole with Gallchenyuk and Gallagher before the end of the season. I know Cole likes to play RW but I would not be suprised to see him at the left of Gally before two long...

When Pacioretty is back he will take Bourque's place beside Plekanek and Gionta IMO. Just my honest opinion...

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01-30-2013, 01:34 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Habruti! View Post
I have a feeling we will see Cole with Gallchenyuk and Gallagher before the end of the season. I know Cole likes to play RW but I would not be suprised to see him at the left of Gally before two long...

When Pacioretty is back he will take Bourque's place beside Plekanek and Gionta IMO. Just my honest opinion...
That's exactly what I want to see! Top 2 lines:

Cole-GallyA-GallyB
Pacioretty-Plekanec-Gionta

That would make the bottom 2 lines:

Prust-Eller-Bourque
Moen-White-Armstrong/Desharnais

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01-30-2013, 01:38 AM
  #182
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Something I posted in the game thread:

I like how Desharnais reacted to François Gagnon trying to find excuses for his poor play.

Quote:
When I met him in the locker room after the game and I stated a series of excuses to explain the fact that he only has two passes after five games, the Quebecer interrupted me: "When I look in the mirror, I do not like what I see. Not looking for excuses. I have to play better. I have to work harder and play better to get out of this. Watch the other guys go. They play well. They produce. There is no free ride for anyone. They play more than me because they deserve it. "

In defense of Desharnais, he is playing without Max Pacioretty with whom he developed a great complicity in Hamilton first, then with the Canadiens. In addition, he no longer enjoys the element of surprise that he had last year.

"Max was there in the first game and it was still not to my taste. And to be honest, I do not see anything different in the teams' coverage. I'm the problem. I am the one who has to solve it. "
http://blogues.lapresse.ca/gagnon/20...e-de-lui-meme/

I'm confident he'll get out of this and go back to his old self. He has the right attitude about it. Instead of blaming his team, his linemates or his ice time, he knows it must come from him.

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01-30-2013, 01:40 AM
  #183
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Scott Gomez: 3 games, 3 shots
Desharnais: 5 games, 2 shots

#justsayin

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01-30-2013, 01:41 AM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Scott Gomez: 3 games, 3 shots
Desharnais: 5 games, 2 shots

#justsayin
Shots? Wtf

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Old
01-30-2013, 01:45 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Shots? Wtf
Lets judge playmakers by the number of shots they have

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01-30-2013, 01:48 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Capitaine Gionta View Post
Lets judge playmakers by the number of shots they have
Wtv man. You're just hating. You see those stats?!?!? Gomez is at a SPG(shot per game) pace. We bought him out? Fml

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01-30-2013, 01:50 AM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Now I'm going to switch sides a bit and not that Desharnais is handly outshooting his opposition on ES so far this year. Its really a bout of Gomez-itis on his finishing chances that's keeping them from putting up totals.

Good chance he rebounds on that. Getting Subban back should really help him, having at least one stud blueliner on the ice nearly every shift should do wonders for Desharnais overall game.
There's that, plus the fact that as of now he can't seem to make a good (or even decent) pass in the offensive zone to save his life (leading to more turnovers and hence a worse defensive performance), falls over when handling the puck against opposing players even more than last year, is noticeably slower/less agile than before (and he wasn't even that fast to begin with...).

He also seems to have lost virtually all of his offensive synchronism (maybe a stress-induced case of tunnel vision? simple rust?) that he had last year with Cole and Paccioretty (or any linemate for that matter).

He also is, in my opinion, directly responsable for a few of the goals that we let in this year off the rush (his bad pass that led to a breakout and to Winnipeg's third goal tonight comes to mind) with his missed passes and his consistency at losing the puck when an opposing player takes the body.

With all of that said, even if Subban's presence helps the entire team, I believe we would benefit from either reducing his ice time/demoting him to a bottom line (along the lines of MT's meritocracy system) or scratching him.

The only area where I think Desharnais has actually improved this year (marginally) is his pokecheck. Maybe it's just me, but it seems more effective than last year.


Last edited by ekof232: 01-30-2013 at 01:55 AM.
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01-30-2013, 01:53 AM
  #188
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Bring back Gomez.

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01-30-2013, 01:54 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Bring back Gomez.
He's actually been playing good in San Jose, as far as I've heard.

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01-30-2013, 01:54 AM
  #190
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Yeah let's talk about shots. Did you know Desharnais had 2 shots against Florida and zero shots in the rest of the games combined? 4 games not one shot on net. No wonder he has an underrated shot, he doesn't shoot enough so we can properly rate it.

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01-30-2013, 01:57 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Yeah let's talk about shots. Did you know Desharnais had 2 shots against Florida and zero shots in the rest of the games combined? 4 games not one shot on net. No wonder he has an underrated shot, he doesn't shoot enough so we can properly rate it.
We're ****ed. Lets tank.

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Old
01-30-2013, 03:52 AM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
Something I posted in the game thread:

I like how Desharnais reacted to François Gagnon trying to find excuses for his poor play.


http://blogues.lapresse.ca/gagnon/20...e-de-lui-meme/

I'm confident he'll get out of this and go back to his old self. He has the right attitude about it. Instead of blaming his team, his linemates or his ice time, he knows it must come from him.
I admire Desharnais for telling it like it is...I already liked his down to earth nature in interviews...but I respect him even more now.
I hope there's a way we can keep everyone! (Pleks, Galchenyuk of course, Eller, DD, Leblanc...). But to be honest...if someone gave us a solid/big/gritty defensive top 4 dman (relatively young or young veteran) for DD+Weber, or...DD+Kaberle... I'd take it (depending on how solid this dman is).

I was actually thinking that DD could struggle without one of Paciorety or Cole. DD's recent value went down from $3.5 - 4mil/year to 2.5mil to 2.75mil/year,imo...good for our cap (also easier to keep DD!).


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 01-30-2013 at 04:00 AM.
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01-30-2013, 04:59 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by ekof232 View Post
There's that, plus the fact that as of now he can't seem to make a good (or even decent) pass in the offensive zone to save his life (leading to more turnovers and hence a worse defensive performance), falls over when handling the puck against opposing players even more than last year, is noticeably slower/less agile than before (and he wasn't even that fast to begin with...).

He also seems to have lost virtually all of his offensive synchronism (maybe a stress-induced case of tunnel vision? simple rust?) that he had last year with Cole and Paccioretty (or any linemate for that matter).

He also is, in my opinion, directly responsable for a few of the goals that we let in this year off the rush (his bad pass that led to a breakout and to Winnipeg's third goal tonight comes to mind) with his missed passes and his consistency at losing the puck when an opposing player takes the body.

With all of that said, even if Subban's presence helps the entire team, I believe we would benefit from either reducing his ice time/demoting him to a bottom line (along the lines of MT's meritocracy system) or scratching him.

The only area where I think Desharnais has actually improved this year (marginally) is his pokecheck. Maybe it's just me, but it seems more effective than last year.
David Desharnais' icetime has been reduced, he is now behind Plekanec and his line. Plek has been taking many of the 1st PP shifts in the Jets game. The game winner of course was won by Tomas redirect goal. Even Alex Galchenyuk has been getting PP time. So there has been some juggling of the lines.

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01-30-2013, 06:24 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Fantastic. Again bringing up DD is not a 1st line center. What am I supposed to reply to this? Did I ever say he was? When did I compare him to Thornton or Getzlaf, why you showing me useless numbers?
People have stated many times the useless statistic that DD was 14th for points among centers last season, the implication is that he is a 1st line center.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Anyway, explain this for me. You show Max didn't get the type of competition a true 1st liner would get.
He got babied minutes in 2011-2012, but he faced more challenging competition in 2010-2011.

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You showed the numbers yourself, now again, why is a max a franchise player for the habs fanbase?
I can't recall anybody ever referring to Pacioretty as a franchise player. I think he's merely considered a very good player to have.

Anyhow you shouldn't equate Pacioretty's performance to Desharnais'. One had 16 goals and 44 assists in 81 games, the other had 33 goals and 32 assists in 79 games. The points per game is marginally higher, but more importantly the goals-to-assists ratio is far higher. For a fixed number of points, goals are much more valuable than assists. That's because the NHL gives out more assists than goals.


Last edited by DAChampion: 01-30-2013 at 06:36 AM.
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Old
01-30-2013, 07:42 AM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
Something I posted in the game thread:

I like how Desharnais reacted to François Gagnon trying to find excuses for his poor play.



http://blogues.lapresse.ca/gagnon/20...e-de-lui-meme/

I'm confident he'll get out of this and go back to his old self. He has the right attitude about it. Instead of blaming his team, his linemates or his ice time, he knows it must come from him.
Amazing to hear that. He'll bounce out of it.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:18 AM
  #196
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Amazing to hear that. He'll bounce out of it.
Wouldn't mind flipping him to the wing where's there's less responsibilities and see how Eller does centering that line.

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01-30-2013, 08:26 AM
  #197
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Long term I don't see DD being a part of this club. He is one dimensional and when that single dimension isn't clicking he's very much a liability to his line and team. Even as my hope for Eller dims I still see Lars as better physically and Pleks/Eller/Galchenyuk trio down the middle is a better route to take.

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01-30-2013, 09:16 AM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Scott Gomez: 3 games, 3 shots
Desharnais: 5 games, 2 shots

#justsayin
Quick! Lets trade DD for a 7th while we still can!


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01-30-2013, 09:26 AM
  #199
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As usual, folks here overreact after a few games of lackluster play.

DD hasn't been playing that bad, although he isn't playing to the level he can. That happens in hockey and it's nothing to be overly worried about, especially when the team is winning. Not having Pacs there hurts and not being the go-to line anymore also hurts. If I was Therrien, I would try to shake things up without affecting the other lines by switching Eller (who clearly isn't comfortable on the wing) to center and Desharnais on the LW. At the very least, that would help in the defensive zone, where Eller is superior to DD.

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01-30-2013, 09:32 AM
  #200
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Before long, Galchenyuk will pivot the first line. I don't know if it will happen this season, as he has much to learn and he can benefit from playing with Officer Prust. DD isn't going to knock Plekanec out of the line up, and I can't see DD playing on a checking line.

His days are numbered. We simply have better options.

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