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01-29-2013, 04:07 AM
  #551
berdush
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Defensively, Granlund's fine. He's looked good in his end. That was the concern. The problem is the boards and corners in the offensive zone. Wingers more often are the first forechecker and would be more involved in that aspect. Wing is usually easier to play because there's less responsibility and less decision making. That's not the problem for Granlund, it's the physical part.
Nice reading, let's elaborate the physical part. At every level he played before, Granlund benefited from the low tempo game. We have no doubt about his skills and intelligence, but also can't deny the fact that this tempo helped him much, even grow him lazy. As you said he's fine defensively. This tempo don't cause much problem at defensive play but big issue at offense when you talk about NHL. He needs to change his habits a bit, play more active. He's just 21, have time to gain strength and to learn for sure.

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01-29-2013, 04:24 AM
  #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berdush View Post
Nice reading, let's elaborate the physical part. At every level he played before, Granlund benefited from the low tempo game. We have no doubt about his skills and intelligence, but also can't deny the fact that this tempo helped him much, even grow him lazy. As you said he's fine defensively. This tempo don't cause much problem at defensive play but big issue at offense when you talk about NHL. He needs to change his habits a bit, play more active. He's just 21, have time to gain strength and to learn for sure.
20, actually. Born in March '92.

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01-29-2013, 04:51 AM
  #553
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Originally Posted by Puhis View Post
20, actually. Born in March '92.
February, actually. Born in February 26th.

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01-30-2013, 02:17 AM
  #554
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Sounds like Yeo is not happy with Granlunds game..he talked to him again after the 2nd tonight apparently per Russo.

I wonder if they'd dare send him down to Houston..I'd rather see him on the wing first and then if that fails send him down. I think he'd look good on Koivu's wing but how do you break up that top line..

My gut says if it doesn't get better quick he goes down and Zucker comes up.

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01-30-2013, 02:21 AM
  #555
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I'm starting to like the idea of sending him back down to Houston now. Bring up Zucker and see what he can do because Granlund is getting out muscled way too easily and his hurting his entire line, not just himself.

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01-30-2013, 02:23 AM
  #556
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Kind of funny that 2 weeks ago I would have told you Granlund was 100% ready for the NHL and Brodin I would've been a bit iffy on. Now its the other way around..

Will Granlund be a good player in the NHL? Yes but maybe not as soon as we thought..expectations might be high. He needs to bulk up and learn to play the game at a faster pace. Everything he does needs to move a bit quicker and he has to be stronger on the puck.

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01-30-2013, 03:18 AM
  #557
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Granlund needs to go to Houston and train the living hell out off his upper body take a few nice "protein" shakes score multiple goal nights and come back stronger than ever in time

WHEN he's figured out how to defend the puck possession against hardcore defencemen because now he's been pushed a side far too easy

Im certain he's mentally disturbed because off it. It's like someone is kicking you in the head in every game at the moment and MG simply dont have the tools to succeed continually against it an win the battle

If he cant create goals against Columbus then it's time to jump on the buss and go to sunny Houston ,there is no shame to go to houston as an rookie
Everyone respect his tools for success but at the moment he's not a complete package

Upper body strength is not something granlund will get by trying to copy parisee inside the game the physical "tools" need to be earned in relentless training
Parisee is an physical monster a specimen granlund will never be as fast as him or even that good but he can be far more consistent by realizing the facts and start shaping he's lacking "tools" to nhl caliber

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01-30-2013, 03:22 AM
  #558
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I really don't think its as much as strength problem as it is a style tendency problem. He likes to stop moving along the boards to look for the play, which might have worked in the SM-Liiga or in the AHL, but at the NHL level, defenders can keep up with him and just punish him.

This game, he seemed to making more plays just by making it, which is great. He often likes to look before making the play, but what makes Mikko Koivu such a gifted playmaker is his ability to play the percentages. The play might not work out, but he isn't afraid of throwing the puck in front of the net and hoping the puck bounces around.

Parise compliments Koivu so well because he is always buzzing in front of the net and never gives up.

Granlund started to make some of those plays behind the net, he just needs to keep doing it. Stop looking for the perfect play, keep your feet moving, and trust that your linemates can convert on the plays near the net.

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01-30-2013, 03:40 AM
  #559
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Put him on wing.

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01-30-2013, 06:14 AM
  #560
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If we send Granlund down to Houston, Finland will probably declare war against Minnesota, followed by full-blown military invasion

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01-30-2013, 06:21 AM
  #561
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If we send Granlund down to Houston, Finland will probably declare war against Minnesota, followed by full-blown military invasion
Probably yes.

I say give him a few games as a winger, if he doesn't improve then send him to Houston.

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01-30-2013, 07:31 AM
  #562
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He is fine. Everyone is blowing his play way out of proportion. He had two great plays in which he fed seto perfectly. It is not Granlunds fault that his linemates cannot convert. On defense, yes he does need to learn to play better. Everyone at first was so excited for him but a few bumps in the learning curve and as typical MN fans always wanting to throw everyone under the bus after a few games. The guy does have two points in 6 games how many does cullen, brodz, clutter or seto have? Koivu in his first year in houston was not even a pt ppg player (one year older than granlund as well). And his first NHL season he only had 21 pts granted in 64 games most likely playing 3rd line duty. Give the Kid time. Calm down and enjoy the progression.

....flame away

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01-30-2013, 07:51 AM
  #563
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Originally Posted by AngryManBearPig View Post
He is fine. Everyone is blowing his play way out of proportion. He had two great plays in which he fed seto perfectly. It is not Granlunds fault that his linemates cannot convert. On defense, yes he does need to learn to play better. Everyone at first was so excited for him but a few bumps in the learning curve and as typical MN fans always wanting to throw everyone under the bus after a few games. The guy does have two points in 6 games how many does cullen, brodz, clutter or seto have? Koivu in his first year in houston was not even a pt ppg player (one year older than granlund as well). And his first NHL season he only had 21 pts granted in 64 games most likely playing 3rd line duty. Give the Kid time. Calm down and enjoy the progression.

....flame away
While you make some good points, the problem for me is his game has progressively gotten worse in his own zone and in the neutral zone. The pace and physicality is clearly faster/harder than what he is used to/comfortable with. I don't buy the linemates argument for his positioning/decision making in these two zones.

I still believe the kid has awesome hockey sense, hands, and a great shot. I am not calling him a bust or suggesting he is not going to be an important part of the team. I just think that he needs to show some consistency to justify being the 2nd line center. If he can't show that, then he needs to be tried at wing or sent down.

Has there ever been a prospect who busted because they were "too good" for the AHL? Point is, I don't see how a prospect's development can be ruined by playing in the AHL.

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01-30-2013, 08:06 AM
  #564
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He has been pretty useless in the past couple of games, even though that impression would have changed quite abit if his linemates would have scored on some of his nice setups.

Also, I noticed several times when the 2nd line is in the offensive zone, and Seto or Cullen had the puck, instead of passing it to an open Granlund, they would send the puck along to boards to be intercepted, or just shoot it into a defender.

If someone would have told me before the start of the season that Granlund would have 1+1 after his first 6 games in the NHL, I would have been thinking that it is a completely acceptable result. With a little more luck Granlund could be 1 + 4 in 6 games. So I dont actually see any reason to be concerned, but neither anything to shout "hurray" for.

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01-30-2013, 09:10 AM
  #565
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I don't see the rush to send him down. All you're doing is making an already unproductive 2nd-4th lines even less talented and forcing a player like Cullen and/or Brodziak into roles they aren't suited for in any kind of significant stretch.

Granlund looks exactly like what he's expected to look like; a twenty year old rookie in his first year in North America. You take the good with the bad at this stage. He's got a good enough grasp of the game to start adjusting to what teams are doing to him. Lets see how he responds in February before entertaining ideas of throwing more wrenches into the mix for secondary scoring.

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01-30-2013, 09:13 AM
  #566
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1. I shocked how much he's gotten cheap-shotted and not draw a call. I realize NHLers like to do the "welcome to the NHL" bit, but the refs too?

2. His main problem is that he needs to move his feet. Slowing down the game may have worked in Finland with the big ice, but in the NHL, all it does is allow the defense to close in on your.

3. I don't think Cullen would be a better option as the 2nd line center. We know that road goes no where.

4. Keeping him on the team, having him watch tape, and talk to guys like Bouchard and Koivu should help him adjust.

5. Russo is being a little dramatic. Yes, Granlund has had 3 not great games. But I don't see Cullen, Brodziak, Setoguchi, or Clutterbuck on the scoresheet either, and they are all vets.

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01-30-2013, 09:24 AM
  #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt Russell Crowe View Post
Put him on wing.
This. With this highly defensive system Minny plays, I don't see Granlund being effective as a centerman (yet). Put him on wing and you'll see his offensive game coming along.

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01-30-2013, 10:10 AM
  #568
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I'd have to agree with the most finnish guys. Put him to the wing, he is the most comfortable there. Like it wouldn't be enough to having adjust to NHL hockey he also has to play center, sure he has played it before but definetely not enough, it's also about using his strenghts, his strenght is not defensive play. It's about having space and dishing out passes, that is much better from the wing, at least at the moment.

I don't see how it would be better for the Wild to put him down to the AHL, we all know what he can do, he just needs time with his new teammates, ice size, and everything.

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01-30-2013, 10:16 AM
  #569
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Originally Posted by henri m View Post
he has been pretty useless in the past couple of games, even though that impression would have changed quite abit if his linemates would have scored on some of his nice setups.

Also, i noticed several times when the 2nd line is in the offensive zone, and seto or cullen had the puck, instead of passing it to an open granlund, they would send the puck along to boards to be intercepted, or just shoot it into a defender.

If someone would have told me before the start of the season that granlund would have 1+1 after his first 6 games in the nhl, i would have been thinking that it is a completely acceptable result. With a little more luck granlund could be 1 + 4 in 6 games. So i dont actually see any reason to be concerned, but neither anything to shout "hurray" for.
qft...

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01-30-2013, 10:38 AM
  #570
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I agree with moving him to the wing. Myself and a few others wanted to see that before he started with the Aeros.

Re: being sent to the AHL.

First, just want to reiterate that I have not said he needs to be sent to the AHL right now. I said that he needs to be changed to wing or start showing some consistency. Second, there comes a point where his potential and what he did in the FEL and on international ice only goes so far. Last, there are other prospects/players in the system that may, just may, have better chemistry or be better suited for this Wild team at this current time.

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01-30-2013, 10:49 AM
  #571
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Moving him to wing causes more influx in lines 2-4 that they're currently trying to 'settle.' The third and fourth lines are finally just starting to find their games a tad (I'd argue that third line is essentially the second right now), moving Granlund to wing just causes yet another problem in trying to space out talent.

I agree that Granlund hasn't exactly looked comfortable at this stage at the center position, but I'd argue the team is much worse off with Cullen and/or Brodziak asked to be the 2nd line center for the duration. Granlund may not be ready for that role, but we know neither of those players are capable within that role for what would amount to be the rest of the season.

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01-30-2013, 11:33 AM
  #572
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dunno if this has been mentioned yet but for granlund i'd like to see him center a line of Clutterbuck and Brodiziak

now i know what you are saying, this fool is drunk. fear not i'm as sober as your avg russian alcoholic....


in any case this would give him two physical players who can do the dirty work and free up some space, while it would get Cullen to center a line of Seto and Butch.

it might be worth a shot to ease him in and maybe create some chemistry for him.

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01-30-2013, 11:38 AM
  #573
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Completely agree that Granlund gets mugged way too often. 3+ times per game. It's awful. The defenders just hold him down with their sticks and refs do nothing about it. If that gets called once per game, they will ease off.

He's not moving his feet for sure with the puck. I see him come into the zone slowly, the defender has almost no gap, but Granlund has nowhere to go because he has no speed. Easily bumped off the puck.

I'm a couple games from wanting to see him back to Houston. Maybe try him at wing, but not sure that's much of a solution. I get that he needs to adjust, but if he can't make that adjustment, let him have some success in the minors, get stronger in the offseason, and try again.

As for Cullen at #2 center, it's far from ideal...but he's not a defensive liability. If Granlund can't get it done offensively with PMB and Seto or Clutter, and that line remains a problem in their end, they need to have basically the top scoring line and three checking lines. Which of course means the team's going nowhere, but you can't fix that in January.

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01-30-2013, 11:39 AM
  #574
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I wouldn't have predicted this before the season started, but I'm thinking that unless he starts showing some serious improvement over the next couple of games, he will be sent down to Houston....I realize it's not all on him, but it's not hard to read into what Yeo is saying.

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01-30-2013, 11:48 AM
  #575
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Completely agree that Granlund gets mugged way too often. 3+ times per game. It's awful. The defenders just hold him down with their sticks and refs do nothing about it. If that gets called once per game, they will ease off.

He's not moving his feet for sure with the puck. I see him come into the zone slowly, the defender has almost no gap, but Granlund has nowhere to go because he has no speed. Easily bumped off the puck.


I'm a couple games from wanting to see him back to Houston. Maybe try him at wing, but not sure that's much of a solution. I get that he needs to adjust, but if he can't make that adjustment, let him have some success in the minors, get stronger in the offseason, and try again.

As for Cullen at #2 center, it's far from ideal...but he's not a defensive liability. If Granlund can't get it done offensively with PMB and Seto or Clutter, and that line remains a problem in their end, they need to have basically the top scoring line and three checking lines. Which of course means the team's going nowhere, but you can't fix that in January.
A simply immediate fix for these two issues is just tell Granlund to focus the next game on continuing to move his feet when he's mauled. That only should draw a call eventually.

But I've been screaming at my computer when watching the non-calls on Granlund. He gets bear hugged or cross-checked multiple times each game.

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