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Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Isles - YIKES

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01-30-2013, 07:34 AM
  #376
KIRK
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
You're missing the point. The players are just not responding to the coach. It's plain as day. Team chemistry? Despres and Jeffrey have sat for much of the season and they were our best players tonight.
Including the two who matter the most.

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01-30-2013, 07:34 AM
  #377
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Originally Posted by fcfury View Post
Can someone explain to me why Despres was not used on the PP?
People might laugh, but I actually wouldn't mind Martin there. He can't shoot, but he's poised with the puck and wasn't just giving up when someone said boo last night.

As far as why Despres isn't getting a chance: he's not 35!

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01-30-2013, 07:37 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I don't think anybody was speaking this way last season before Sid came back. Everyone seemed pretty happy with the state of the team at that point.

My point is that even the team held to the highest modern standard of quality had a similar underwhelming 3 year playoff run to the Pens when it was in its prime, had no cap to deal with, and the best coach of all-time behind the bench.

We are playing bad hockey so far this season. I don't expect it to continue for long, and I believe we'll right the ship with Bylsma at the helm.
I don't think anyone was expecting to see the mess of things that developed quickly starting a few games after Sid came back. It did happen. Bylsma didn't correct it. And, if you look at that run starting the last quarter or last season, the general trend line clearly points down.

Compare Bylsma's press conference yesterday to some of Therrien's from January 2009. The tone smacks of resignation and desperation and loss.

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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I understand the point completely. My point is that we're 6 games into a season where so far Suter is a worse defenseman than Martin, the Isles are a better team than the Flyers, and Marleau is the best player in the league.

What is now shall not forever be. People seem to find a way to forget this every year - it is especially relevant in a season like this that had so little prep time.
And our point is that this isn't a 6 game phenomenon. That's the only difference between Therrien's last 25 games as HC and Bylsma's last 25. Strike that: Therrien also had a ******** team in his last 25 (he'd have killed to have what Bylsma has to work with . . . Satan, Sykora, Dupuis, and Feds for the top six, no Gonchar or Whitney . . . ouch).

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01-30-2013, 07:39 AM
  #379
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To put a spotlight on Fleury is just harsh right now. Jeez come on, he guessed wrong on the wrap around goal and got caught. These are the types of goals that, when the Penguins score them, we're patting ourselves on the back, not laughing at the other goaltender. They're not good goals but they happen. They're not softies.

Other than that goal there I'm not sure what everyone's beef is with Fleury this year. How about SCORING some goals? How about not standing still on the PK? How about not leaving guys to cruise around near the crease unattended?

He could make some more/bigger saves. His MO as of a few years ago was making one or two huge saves a night that fans of other teams didn't see in his stats. He's not doing that nearly as much anymore, but for god's sake guys James Reimer???? This team has enough problems I'm not even going to think about trying to replace Fleury.

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01-30-2013, 07:39 AM
  #380
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Does anyone else get the feeling that we need to make some trades to improve the team and change the roster?

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01-30-2013, 07:41 AM
  #381
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I agree with Depres on the power play, Tanger is just horrible with his shot, don't see how it could be worse.

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01-30-2013, 07:41 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Does anyone else get the feeling that we need to make some trades to improve the team and change the roster?
That among other things.

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01-30-2013, 07:41 AM
  #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Does anyone else get the feeling that we need to make some trades to improve the team and change the roster?
If the team played with 100% intensity and lost, then yes. I think it's a cop out to keep changing the roster due to an entire team's lack of passion.

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01-30-2013, 07:42 AM
  #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Including the two who matter the most.
The troubling part is here is a list of player I think clearly don't look themselves right now:

Crosby
Malkin
Kunitz
Dupuis
Sutter
Cooke

Six out of eight top 9 forwards (we don't have 9 good forwards remember?) and we depend on them to score a large chunk of our goals. That's a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
If the team played with 100% intensity and lost, then yes. I think it's a cop out to keep changing the roster due to an entire team's lack of passion.
I don't know if I'd phrase it that way. I mean we really don't have enough good forwards and could use another Dman that's not Lovejoy.

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01-30-2013, 07:43 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
I don't think I'm buying this idea that our roster is just too top heavy offensively to compete. I mean sure, I'd love to add another top 6 winger and I think they'll ultimately have to at some point. But that isn't the problem we're seeing right now. Let's not forget that this is, more or less, the same group of forwards that scored more goals than any other group in the league last season. And that was with Crosby out most of the year.

What we're seeing now is a team that is pretty clearly disinterested. No trade is going to fix that. It's either going to take a monumental effort on the players' part to just get past their frustrations or it's going to take a coaching change(whether Bylsma actually deserves it or not). But I fear we're going to be saying "It's still early" until it's too late and another year of Sid/Geno's prime will slip away.
I want you to think back 4 years. Remember the game the Pens were playing against Tampa. Everyone thought Therrien was on the ropes. Then, Geno sticks the money on the board between periods and goes out and claims it. I thought 'That's the night Geno saved Therrien's job'. If you think about it, go back to last year. The captain article came out. Pens win a nice one in FLA. Then, TB, they go up 3-0 and surrender the lead in 5 minutes in the 3rd. Geno does it again and just went on that unreal month and a half or so tear.

The monumental efforts definitely COULD happen, definitely with Sid and Geno. But, in the end, their only effect is to delay the inevitable.

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01-30-2013, 07:44 AM
  #386
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Originally Posted by fcfury View Post
Can someone explain to me why Despres was not used on the PP?
Maybe they wanted to limit his icetime somewhat and not overtax him? Playing with Letang he's already at close to 20 minutes without any special teams play.

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01-30-2013, 07:44 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
If the team played with 100% intensity and lost, then yes. I think it's a cop out to keep changing the roster due to an entire team's lack of passion.
I'm not talking major changes but there's a few players I think that need a kick up the backside or need to get out of here as they're not doing good enough.

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01-30-2013, 07:44 AM
  #388
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
When the coach has lost Jaded . . .

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01-30-2013, 07:46 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
If Bylsma was let go then who would guys want to see replace him?

Sutter?
Leclaire?
Interesting. Not sure what I think. Pens definitely wouldn't lack for structure or a coach who'd know how to use Sid and Geno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fcfury View Post
Can someone explain to me why Despres was not used on the PP?
Because he gets a hard low shot on net with some regularity? Why would you want that on the PP?

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01-30-2013, 07:48 AM
  #390
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When Bylsma called that timeout i thought it might have rallied them... But it looked like they just did not care. He has somehow lost this team.

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01-30-2013, 07:49 AM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I'm not talking major changes but there's a few players I think that need a kick up the backside or need to get out of here as they're not doing good enough.
We were having this same conversation four years ago, because once again it's not just a few players. Sid and Geno aren't buying. A trade alone isn't going to change that.

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Originally Posted by bradshaw06 View Post
When Bylsma called that timeout i thought it might have rallied them... But it looked like they just did not care. He has somehow lost this team.
I'm not sure it's a case of 'not caring' as much as it's a case of 'not caring to listen'.

There was a time, like with a half dozen games left LAST YEAR, that Bylsma could've taken drastic action and gotten everyone on board with whatever he decided to change. Now, after the Flyers series and what I saw come to a head last night, it won't matter what he does . . . yeller or nice guy, hard practices or days off, a tweak here or there, the players aren't buying ANYTHING he's selling right now.

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01-30-2013, 07:52 AM
  #392
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Interesting. Not sure what I think. Pens definitely wouldn't lack for structure or a coach who'd know how to use Sid and Geno.



Because he gets a hard low shot on net with some regularity? Why would you want that on the PP?
Next time we'll probably see Adams playing the point on the PP. I mean Letang can't get a shot on net, Martin shot couldn't break a wet paper bag but we keep sending them out there on the PP units.

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01-30-2013, 07:53 AM
  #393
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Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
NYI Colin McDonald will have a disciplinary hearing with NHL this morning at 10:45 for his hit from behind on PIT's Ben Lovejoy.

Bit surprised by that. Thought it was a 5-er but not more? Will have to see.

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01-30-2013, 07:55 AM
  #394
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Interesting. Not sure what I think. Pens definitely wouldn't lack for structure or a coach who'd know how to use Sid and Geno.



Because he gets a hard low shot on net with some regularity? Why would you want that on the PP?
If we were to fire Bylsma then he'd be the one that I'd want.

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01-30-2013, 07:56 AM
  #395
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
If we were to fire Bylsma then he'd be the one that I'd want.
I was thinking Dave King, but I wouldn't object to Brent Sutter.

I will say this: I would not object to either filling their staff with Rick Tocchet (team needs a tough SOB like that) and getting Fitzie back for another stint.

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01-30-2013, 08:02 AM
  #396
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Whose our current PP coach, if we have one?

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01-30-2013, 08:12 AM
  #397
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It takes a lot for me to wig out and I'm not really there yet.

The Pens will start winning again, they will have their streaks, etc.

We will forget about this meltdown in a week or two.

The thing is, these problems we are seeing will be masked, but they will remain just below the surface and will undoubtedly spring up again at the worst time.

I know several things to be true:

DB is going no where
Shero is a good GM
DB needs to evolve as a coach and his stubbornness is his own undoing
This team will flame out in the playoffs if Shero keeps the status quo
I won't be fooled by winning streaks that these problems are fixed

The roster needs tweaked and that is on Shero. DB needs to look in the mirror and accept some blame. I never see him take accountability for losses and problems with the team publically. So I guess he can't ask his vets to be accountable when he isn't either. He needs to make a number of changes to become a legit top tier coach.

I think he can, but I'm not confident he will.

There are a number of issues I have, but I'm just going to wait and see if these two can work things out.

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01-30-2013, 08:14 AM
  #398
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Bylsmas system is flawed, and its evident that he's lost this team. But on top of that we need a roster shake up. Our bottom 6 is putrid and honestly outside of james neal we have no top six wingers

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01-30-2013, 08:16 AM
  #399
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
And our point is that this isn't a 6 game phenomenon. That's the only difference between Therrien's last 25 games as HC and Bylsma's last 25. Strike that: Therrien also had a ******** team in his last 25 (he'd have killed to have what Bylsma has to work with . . . Satan, Sykora, Dupuis, and Feds for the top six, no Gonchar or Whitney . . . ouch).
This is a new season under unique circumstances, and Bylsma has a better record than Therrien had in his last 25 games.

We just keep going round and round on this one. I'm confident my opinion will be vindicated here, so I won't say much more on the subject until there's been enough time for timing/rust issues to be sort out this season.

Before the year started, I don't think anyone envisioned calling for Bylsma's head after a 3-3 start. Lockout blue balls are causing impatience and a glib dismissal of the lack of prep time before this season.

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01-30-2013, 08:17 AM
  #400
Le Magnifique 66
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Does anyone else get the feeling that we need to make some trades to improve the team and change the roster?
Absolutely, and if that doesn't work it's management that will need to go

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