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Bylsma/coaching discussion thread

View Poll Results: How long do you give Dan?
Fire him now 18 22.22%
15 games 33 40.74%
30 games 4 4.94%
Fire him if we fail in the play-offs 23 28.40%
Keep him till next year 3 3.70%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-30-2013, 04:26 AM
  #451
#66
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I think so, yeah. As a .500 team right now Bylsma is on extremely thin ice. A mini losing streak could be the end of him given the short season.

Like I said, Ray was PISSED last year after that playoff series. I've never heard him more angry. I honestly don't think he'll be as patient as he's been in the past, either with Bylsma or the team. I expect a change of some kind in the next week or two if things continue the way they are. Whether that's a trade or Bylsma gone or both, we'll have to wait and see.
Knowing Shero it will be Malkin for 3 defensemen and a role player.

I keep wondering if the Pens hands are tied because they're a team made to bop and hit along the end boards and its pretty clear the NHL doesn't let you do that anymore. That makes Kunitz and Cooke that much less effective.

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01-30-2013, 04:35 AM
  #452
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Is Guy Carbonneau a viable option to replace DB?

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01-30-2013, 07:29 AM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Pancakes View Post
I think so, yeah. As a .500 team right now Bylsma is on extremely thin ice. A mini losing streak could be the end of him given the short season.

Like I said, Ray was PISSED last year after that playoff series. I've never heard him more angry. I honestly don't think he'll be as patient as he's been in the past, either with Bylsma or the team. I expect a change of some kind in the next week or two if things continue the way they are. Whether that's a trade or Bylsma gone or both, we'll have to wait and see.
I don't think that Ray can afford to be patient.

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01-30-2013, 07:39 AM
  #454
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I wonder if Bylsma will be super nice and give his players a day off practice like he did on Monday. God knows they deserve it.

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01-30-2013, 07:41 AM
  #455
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I wonder if Bylsma will be super nice and give his players a day off practice like he did on Monday. God knows they deserve it.
If I'm Bylsma I make them bag skate in the morning

Then work on the PP all afternoon. Mostly on the entry.

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01-30-2013, 07:44 AM
  #456
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If I'm Bylsma I make them bag skate in the morning

Then work on the PP all afternoon. Mostly on the entry.
Well we all know that won't happen.

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01-30-2013, 07:46 AM
  #457
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Well we all know that won't happen.
I know, we can live and dream.

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01-30-2013, 07:55 AM
  #458
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Well we all know that won't happen.
Even if it does, it doesn't matter. As I wrote in the other thread, Bylsma could've done something drastic with a half dozen games left LAST YEAR. After the Flyers series and with what came to a head last night, it doesn't matter what he tries, because the players aren't listening anymore. End of the day, Sid and Geno aren't on board (they may talk a nice game, but what they're doing is a different story). When that happens, with this team, it's pretty much academic from there for ANY coach.

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01-30-2013, 08:01 AM
  #459
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Is Guy Carbonneau a viable option to replace DB?
Oh God I hope not. Do not want him here. He's another that rolls 4 lines and throws out his 4th line late in a game down a goal

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01-30-2013, 08:16 AM
  #460
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Oh God I hope not. Do not want him here. He's another that rolls 4 lines and throws out his 4th line late in a game down a goal
Well, why go outside the organization for that when John Hynes is available?

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01-30-2013, 08:23 AM
  #461
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I would be interested in any new hire that doesn't come from this organization. A new philosophy wouldn't be the worst thing and in fact I think it's the right thing.

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01-30-2013, 08:32 AM
  #462
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I would be interested in any new hire that doesn't come from this organization. A new philosophy wouldn't be the worst thing and in fact I think it's the right thing.
I'll 2nd that because whats in place is complete garbage.

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01-30-2013, 08:48 AM
  #463
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Guys, IDK. It's really hard for me to see it happening. I said this before but it's worth repeating. Instead of keeping himself at arm's length from Bylsma, like a GM probably should, Shero seems to have totally tied his own fate to Bylsma, buying into his philosophy wholesale. He has repeatedly emphasized, including after last year's debacle vs. Philly, how much he believes in Bylsma and his system. Even his draft picks and player acquisitions have been conducted with an eye toward finding guys who fit into Bylsma's approach.

So I really don't know what's going to happen here, because Shero and Bylsma have a close working relationship and seem to be both drinking the same kool-aid. It would have to come from ownership. And clearly it's not a good situation if it has to happen that way.

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01-30-2013, 08:55 AM
  #464
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I hope that's not true (tying his fate vs. being supportive of the guy and vocal in his support -- they're not the same thing) because Shero is a very good GM, even if his choice of coach and approval of system have not panned out post-Cup like we'd hoped. He needs to act on this. If he doesn't even I will admit it's a big strike against him in the same way the Neal and Staal deals were big pluses for him, as well as some of his D draft picks, and prior attempts at big signings (Hossa, Parise, etc). He's a guy who takes action when things go really wrong so if he doesn't here in the next month or so, I won't defend him on this point.

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01-30-2013, 08:56 AM
  #465
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If Shero wants to change something, start by bringing in a PP coach and giving him final say on the PP. A better PP changes the entire complexion of the Islanders game. If the coaching staff doesn't like it, tough. They need to start feeling a little uncomfortable.

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01-30-2013, 09:01 AM
  #466
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Maybe after Laviolette gets fired in Philly we could hire him. Now that would be funny

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01-30-2013, 09:02 AM
  #467
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If Shero wants to change something, start by bringing in a PP coach and giving him final say on the PP. A better PP changes the entire complexion of the Islanders game. If the coaching staff doesn't like it, tough. They need to start feeling a little uncomfortable.
I think if you're going to go there, with a GM getting that involved and wielding authority in the day to day business of coaching, then you ought to just make a change because that really wouldn't be a good situation.

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01-30-2013, 09:20 AM
  #468
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At what point does Pittsburgh's record begin to put them in legitimate jeopardy of missing the post season?=
Not for a while yet but that's not the real question. The real question is, how long before we kill our chances of winning conference and the division and getting home ice through much of the playoffs? The answer to that is, pretty soon. Our division is solid top to bottom as we saw last night. The Islanders are no longer door matt, the Devils are showing they're still competitive without Parise... every one of those games is going to be a stuggle for us until we make some substantive changes and make it harder for the other team to adjust to us.

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01-30-2013, 09:21 AM
  #469
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Shero should look into the mirror, hes the teams biggest problem. His inability to draft forwards has hurt this team.

Our defense today is worse than its been in years. He kept Lovejoy over Strait. He donated michalek to Phoenix.

The staal trade has been disastrous, I know that was forced upon him. He's had a rough couple of months.

I'm not even going to mention his numerous horrible free agent signings or his trades that haven't worked out. All we hear about are his three great trades. They were good, but he was unable to keep Hossa. Kunitz has been sooo inconsistent. Neal was fantastic last year.

But in 7 years he hasn't drafted one worthwhile forward except Staal only because he had #2 overall pick.

Shero had pieces in the system from Craig Patrick. Gogo was used to acquire Neal, Whitney was used to acquire Kunitz and the players in the Atlanta deal were here before Shero.

Let's see ray make a great trade with assets that he personally is responsible for acquiring.

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01-30-2013, 09:27 AM
  #470
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Ray Shero has become too conservative and has reverted to the pre-Hossa deal GM he was. He has to know making Adams, Cooke, Kennedy, Dupuis, and Kunitz fixtures instead of the interchangeable parts they really are is a big mistake. Permitting Bylsma to use minor league contracted players like Vitale, Engelland and Lovejoy is really taking its toll on this team.

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01-30-2013, 09:29 AM
  #471
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Ray Shero has become too conservative and has reverted to the pre-Hossa deal GM he was. He has to know making Adams, Cooke, Kennedy, Dupuis, and Kunitz fixtures instead of the interchangeable parts they really are is a big mistake. Permitting Bylsma to use
One thing that worries me is that a few of those players starting to get on and won't be around in a few seasons. I know there's always players to sign in FA but there's not often 1st liners or 2nd liners and that's something that could hurt us unless we sort that out.

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01-30-2013, 09:50 AM
  #472
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I think if you're going to go there, with a GM getting that involved and wielding authority in the day to day business of coaching, then you ought to just make a change because that really wouldn't be a good situation.
Some head coaches in the NHL don't always get to pick their assistants. I think the Devils are an example of that.

Besides, I wouldn't see it as "wielding authority" in everyday coaching. It would be correcting a problem that has plagued the team since Bylsma took over, and could make Bylsma a better coach in the long run.

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01-30-2013, 10:20 AM
  #473
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Shero should look into the mirror, hes the teams biggest problem. His inability to draft forwards has hurt this team.

Our defense today is worse than its been in years. He kept Lovejoy over Strait. He donated michalek to Phoenix. =
No offense buddy, but I'm getting tired of reading stuff like this from people because it is a totally skewed way of looking at Shero's decisions. I am no apologist and I recognize Shero has made some mistakes over the years (what GM doesn't??), but the over-simiplifcation of the mistakes and the conclusions people draw are usually way off.

Let's start with the first one. This has been beaten to death, but when a team is finishing in such a way that they're always drafting in the he last 5 or 6 spots of the first round, those picks rarely produce "sure fire" forward prospects. Everyone from about pick 12 or 15 outward, is almost always a pick involving risk / some downside / some uncertainty.

Yes we've drafted a lot of D and it's pretty clear Shero and his scouts go BPA, which in those slots are often D with big upside, like Despres. It's also obvious (as they've said as much) that part of their strategy of stocking up highly touted D, is to trade them for F talent (see also: James Neal). He may well do that again in the next 30 days here! Would anyone be surprised? No. And if he does it successfully everyone will be happy... right up until the next D he drafts at which point they'll complain again because he didn't pick their "pet forward".

But make no mistake: no forward that we would've drafted in the slots we had available, would've made this team last year or this year and therefore would not have helped this team even though they're good players with upside (see also: Bennett, who isn't far from making the team and IS a very good F talent... but just isn't ready yet after only a season or so of college hockey and a few months in WBS).

The ONLY criticism one can validly make:

1) "Shero should've traded up in the draft two years ago to try to get someone like Tarasenko." That's valid in theory but then who do you trade to get that #14 pick (I think it was 14), and what hole does that leave behind in the immediate aftermath? And oh BTW, he would not have made the team until this year, either. So you traded a current roster asset for someone not on the roster for another 1-2 years. Stuff is not as simple as "Oh, if we'd drafted a Top 12 Forward at some point inthe last two or three years, we'd be a different team right now." No, we ****ing wouldn't be... not much different a team at all most likely.

I know what you're thinking: "What about Pouliot at #8?" Yes, we could've used that pick to draft a forward (in a weak class of forwards once you got past the top 3 or 4 guys). And guess what? He would not make this roster until 2014-2015 earliest. Forsberg... whoever. None of those guys would've been close to making the team this year, or this fall either. The names being mentioned were (if I remember right) undersized kids, inexperienced and all with a fair amount of risk. None of them was close to being a sure thing.

NOW... if Shero does that THIS year (in a class supposedly loaded with good F talent in the first round), I agree 100% it would be an inexcusable mistake if there's a great F talent on the board for us.


BOTTOM LINE: Shero is a very good GM, who has consistently tried to make this team better and give himself the leverage to make good trades and FA acquisitions (via scounting, cap management and the rest). Just because he failed to get the only two assets worth making a big splash for this summer (Parise and Sutter), does not make him a bad GM, either. Like i said the only reason we lost out on both of those is because we're not the Minnesota Penguins.


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01-30-2013, 10:27 AM
  #474
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Exactly the 4 past years of horrible post season joke hockey, and a guy who has lost the room. The writing is on the wall. He needs to go.
I agree with this a 100%. I've never seen Sid and Geno play so flat. This team
has way too much talent too look this bad. I was disgusted by lastnights game. Islanders aren't a great team to make the Pens look that bad lastnight.

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01-30-2013, 10:39 AM
  #475
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Not for a while yet but that's not the real question. The real question is, how long before we kill our chances of winning conference and the division and getting home ice through much of the playoffs? The answer to that is, pretty soon. Our division is solid top to bottom as we saw last night. The Islanders are no longer door matt, the Devils are showing they're still competitive without Parise... every one of those games is going to be a stuggle for us until we make some substantive changes and make it harder for the other team to adjust to us.
****, the way Bylsma manages a game at home, maybe being on the road improves the Pens chances.

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