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Do you fire Laviolette? (Philadelphia Daily News article dated March 12, 2013)

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01-30-2013, 07:23 AM
  #76
chimrichalds18
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This roster is not good enough to warrant his firing, especially that back end. Time and time again, we've seen Flyers management trade something away and do nothing to make up for that loss (draft picks and futures, defensive forwards last year, offense this year -- not to mention dmen who can add something offensively).

They should be sellers at the deadline and build this offseason. They've got some good pieces, but there are some glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed.

Right now, their special teams is murdering them. Part of that is a lack of personnel, the other part is lack of coaching. Lavy's not going to be here in a few years. If they want to get rid of him now, fine. I just don't think it's time yet.

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01-30-2013, 07:33 AM
  #77
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Special teams are indeed enigmatic right now.

I understand that the losses of Jagr and Carle have hurt the PP but why is the PK so atrocious? Couts, Talbot, Read and even Giroux have been outstanding when playing with one man short last season. Enters Fedotenko who is also a Veteran and known for his good defense. Timonen, Grossmann, Coburn are all still around.

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01-30-2013, 07:57 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
Terrible defense, question mark goaltending they overpaid for, and too many 3rd line caliber forwards.
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This roster is not good enough to warrant his firing
I bet if you checked out the St Louis board at the beginning of last year, they were saying the same thing. David Backes is overrated and nothing more than a 3rd line checker. Tj Oshie will never put it together. We got robbed in both the Halak and Johnson trade. David Perron's career is over. Then they fired their coach and hired Hitch. Now look at them. True the Flyers don't have Piertangelo but St Louis doesn't have Giroux. I don't see how a talented roster of young players that was gushed over by the pundits last year as an embarrassment of riches become 3rd line grinders in seven games this year.

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01-30-2013, 08:03 AM
  #79
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Even if the Flyers HAD kept the likes of Carle and Jagr (who would have been overpayed) would the team really be a Stanley Cup competitor? They couldn't get out of the second round last year, they probably wouldn't again this year.

The team is stuck in a bad position - they aren't good enough to win the Cup, and not really bad enough to warrant a full makeover ot get a top 5 pick. The offense should be fine in time, but the defense? In the long run, we don't have any prospects, and in order to trade for a Pronger-esque player, we'd have to forfeit our forwards or future, assuming someone would be willing to part with a #1 d-man, which is unlikely.

Holmgren did what he could in the offseason - he made all the right offers, the players just went elsewhere.

If the team fires Lavi, unless they bring in a Hitchcock-like defense first coach who forces the whole team to buy into a defensive concept, who would make this team a Cup contender?

I say play out the season and see who is available in the offseason before canning the coach.

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01-30-2013, 08:09 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
Even if the Flyers HAD kept the likes of Carle and Jagr (who would have been overpayed) would the team really be a Stanley Cup competitor? They couldn't get out of the second round last year, they probably wouldn't again this year.

The team is stuck in a bad position - they aren't good enough to win the Cup, and not really bad enough to warrant a full makeover ot get a top 5 pick. The offense should be fine in time, but the defense? In the long run, we don't have any prospects, and in order to trade for a Pronger-esque player, we'd have to forfeit our forwards or future, assuming someone would be willing to part with a #1 d-man, which is unlikely.

Holmgren did what he could in the offseason - he made all the right offers, the players just went elsewhere.

If the team fires Lavi, unless they bring in a Hitchcock-like defense first coach who forces the whole team to buy into a defensive concept, who would make this team a Cup contender?

I say play out the season and see who is available in the offseason before canning the coach.
I think this team could be bad enough to get a top 5 pick. At the TDL they need to look at moving Timonen for picks. I would also try to move Briere as well.

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01-30-2013, 08:10 AM
  #81
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Questionable goaltending? Aside from the MFL show in Tampa, goaltending has been solid. If the guys infront played any semblance of a game in front we win more. I'd be worried if this was a normal season. But it isn't. Some teams came out on fire others didnt. It's hard to he anything down with a 6 day camp and a compressed schedule. It's gonna take a while to find the balance, and to be completely honest I cold care less wha happens this season. I'm just happy to have a season. We lose we lose. This to me is just an extended training camp for next year. Let the young guys grow and make your moves this summer. No need to freak out and panic. 29 teams are gonna be disappointed come June. Odds are we will be one. No need to trade everyone and start over. We just did that. Last year. Unless its a move that sends a veteren for a prospect I am not interested

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01-30-2013, 08:12 AM
  #82
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I agree with the two posters above me as well.

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01-30-2013, 08:34 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
And it's only fitting that those are arguably our two worst first round picks during that time frame, with the jury still out on Sbisa.

I love the Flyers commitment to icing a competitive team almost every year, but sometimes you have to take a step back to take two steps forward.
Well, one led to Pronger, and the other still brought us a young defenseman who has played well. LA turned one into a trade, and had another that they just lost on waivers before playing a game with the team.

This is the world of parity in the new NHL. You're not always going to be good. Just don't be the Blue Jackets or Islanders and you should be alright.

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01-30-2013, 08:35 AM
  #84
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You can look at Lavi, but don't overreact. This season is inherently wonky.

You have to tease out if the players are playing lackluster due to exhaustion or coaching or both.

Laughton is strong in the areas of energy, faceoffs, and battling. Maybe he shouldn't have been sent down. Lost some jam.

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01-30-2013, 08:37 AM
  #85
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Ride it out this year. If they are out of the playoffs, move Briere, maybe Timmonen if he wants a chance for a cup (would like to resign him for next year ) and fire the coach in the offseason. Without any practice time, there really isn't any benefit in changing systems now unless you have a specific coach in mind for next year and want to get a jump on the rest of the league this year.

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01-30-2013, 08:37 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
I think this team could be bad enough to get a top 5 pick. At the TDL they need to look at moving Timonen for picks. I would also try to move Briere as well.
Both have NMCs.

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01-30-2013, 08:43 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Laughton is strong in the areas of energy, faceoffs, and battling. Maybe he shouldn't have been sent down. Lost some jam.
Depending on how they view Couturier (is he strictly a shut down center or two-way offensive guy), I would make a play for Ryan O Reilly. He is great on faceoffs, plays a gritty defensive game, and has some offense. You cannot have too many of those guys. Giroux-Couturier-O Reilly down the middle would be very hard to play against in years to come. Move Laughton to wing with O Reilly and that is a nasty line in the future.

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01-30-2013, 09:00 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
Depending on how they view Couturier (is he strictly a shut down center or two-way offensive guy), I would make a play for Ryan O Reilly. He is great on faceoffs, plays a gritty defensive game, and has some offense. You cannot have too many of those guys. Giroux-Couturier-O Reilly down the middle would be very hard to play against in years to come. Move Laughton to wing with O Reilly and that is a nasty line in the future.
Laughton is an O'Reilly type player. What the Flyers need is a young defenseman who can step in and play top four minutes immediately and can contribute offensively.

As for firing Laviolette, it's plausible. Look no further than Holmgren's right hand man, John Paddock. He'scurrently the eye in the sky coach and he's in charge of the defense. When they show him watching from above, you can actually see his face cringe over the lack of detail paid to defense in general. There's a reason why Holmgren has him there. He will be Laviolette's replacement if they go that route.

As for Bryzgalov, he's been fantastic this year. Anyone who says the goaltending has been questionable hasn't watched a game this year.

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01-30-2013, 09:07 AM
  #89
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What the Flyers need is a young defenseman who can step in and play top four minutes immediately and can contribute offensively..
Agreed but who is trading those?

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01-30-2013, 09:11 AM
  #90
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Agreed but who is trading those?
Nobody is trading one of those. You have to draft one of those type of defenders.

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01-30-2013, 09:13 AM
  #91
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Tough call but I think if this special teams fiasco continues and the scoring doesnt come.. Hes gone.

Hes proven he can win but he has also shown that he doesn't adjust to coaching strategy and does have a system that gets stale and pedantic.

After winning the cup he had 3 mediocre seasons with Carolina before being fired.

I dont know who they would replace him with though.. Probably a tougher call.

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01-30-2013, 09:24 AM
  #92
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flyers are last in the division, have more games played and fewer wins that. the islanders. besides the 7 goal game they only have 7 goals in the other six games, pk and pp look horrible, no chemistry on the toward lines ( G's line combined for only 3 shots yesterday that's seven less than briere had alone) they look unprepared and lost , and already have gone 2 100 plus minute spells without a goal in 7 games. bryz looks great but that's it. I think lavy might have to at least be put under the microscope the next couple of weeks if things dont improve.

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01-30-2013, 09:29 AM
  #93
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Lavi is a two season coach. Once other teams figure out how to play against his system , its over. Look at the Devils series. He could not adjust his game to beat the Devils. His solution was mix up the lines, and the Devils took advantage of this. If we keep playing like ****, I say fire him.

You guys keep saying our D is terrible, blah blah blah. On paper (with a healthy mezaros) Id say we have a pretty deep D core. Are you telling me Willie mitchell, Rob Scuderi and Matt Greene are that much better than even Meszaros? Its a bad system that is being run, its an absolutely terrible defensive system.

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01-30-2013, 09:40 AM
  #94
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Both have NMCs.
I guess they would have to be the first players in NHL history to be traded with NMCs since it never happens.

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01-30-2013, 09:56 AM
  #95
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I'd prefer Paddock over Murray to be honest, as an interim.

I think Murray screwed with Schenn and Couturier's heads.

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01-30-2013, 10:10 AM
  #96
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There is essentially 0 value in firing Laviolette in this lock out shortened season. You cannot implement a new system in time remaining, particularly given the impacts of so many Conference games in this short season.

If the teams falls flat on its face, this is an entirely appropriate conversation for the offseason, but there is no reason not to let Laviolette have more than 7 games to figure this out, particularly in light of the injuries.

Say No to over-reacting.

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01-30-2013, 10:23 AM
  #97
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No doubt Lavi is in a tough position. He doesn't have the personnel to make his case easier...GM bears some responsibility but then again the GM did what he could to get a couple of franchise D men on the team and even a forward in Parise. Problem was that Holmgren had NO legit backup plan. Putting Jagr and Carle on the shelf while he swung for the fences has backfired somewhat even if both are now overpaid.

I'm sorry but trying to fill the Carle void with bottom pairing shlubs was a recipe for disaster. Jagr's popularity with certain teamates and his work ethic and his ability to hold onto to the puck to give player like G time etc was also invaluable even if the worry was that he would peter out again. Filling his skates with Knuble is reaching. Knuble's best days are behind him....good locker room presence to an extent but I believe he will be of limited added value.

Anyway..the point is that Lavi doesn't have the personnel to implement his system properly but he also seems to have very little clue on how to adapt to what he doesn't have. Having Paddock and Murray breathing down his neck probably has him concerned as well as the comments by the GM and owner to consider changing his style.

I do think if this funk continues and the Flyers continue to look disorganized Lavi will be gone regardless of whether it's a panic move or not and if it will be right or not. This is a business and if the product he is managing looks like a lottery team b/c his message isn't getting through to the players for whatever reason then he will have to be let go and yes I would prefer Paddock over Murray as an interim coach.

Finally, I hope Murray didn't screw with Couturier and Schenn's head but it is plausible he introduced some confusion but maybe only in the sense that Murray's D emphasis is totally contradictory to Lavi's offensive attack attack system. Who is confusing who?

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01-30-2013, 10:49 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by John Wayne Gretzky View Post
Lavi is a two season coach. Once other teams figure out how to play against his system , its over. Look at the Devils series. He could not adjust his game to beat the Devils. His solution was mix up the lines, and the Devils took advantage of this. If we keep playing like ****, I say fire him.

You guys keep saying our D is terrible, blah blah blah. On paper (with a healthy mezaros) Id say we have a pretty deep D core. Are you telling me Willie mitchell, Rob Scuderi and Matt Greene are that much better than even Meszaros? Its a bad system that is being run, its an absolutely terrible defensive system.
How has he been around for more than 2 years, and been successful, if that is all it takes to figure him out? He's the type of coach that has a short life span because of how he coaches, but not because he's a bad coach. Bad coaches don't take the Islanders to the playoffs, or win a cup, and get back to it later.

His time here might be up, but when he goes somewhere else he'll be successful.

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01-30-2013, 11:18 AM
  #99
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How has he been around for more than 2 years, and been successful, if that is all it takes to figure him out? He's the type of coach that has a short life span because of how he coaches, but not because he's a bad coach. Bad coaches don't take the Islanders to the playoffs, or win a cup, and get back to it later.

His time here might be up, but when he goes somewhere else he'll be successful.
He wasn't successful enough here. Close but no cigar. rewatch every Rangers game from last season. notice how when we are outplaying the Rangers for half of the game, Torts comes out with an adjusted game plan and they make us look like ****. I liked Lavi as a coach, but his time is about up here, and you reiterated that.

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01-30-2013, 11:38 AM
  #100
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He wasn't successful enough here. Close but no cigar. rewatch every Rangers game from last season. notice how when we are outplaying the Rangers for half of the game, Torts comes out with an adjusted game plan and they make us look like ****. I liked Lavi as a coach, but his time is about up here, and you reiterated that.
It doesn't take much to figure out the Flyers this season. They have very little offensive capability from the backend. All you have to do his bum rush the forwards like the Rangers were doing and even if the Flyers get it out to the point quick enough we don't have anybody with a lethal shot. Timonen made them pay last night on that lone goal but they'll sacrifice a quality chance here and there knowing that percentage wise they'll limit the Flyers chances or the Flyers will limit their own for lack of an offensive threat back on D. When you have Lundqvist and you are one of the better shot blocking teams that will also help your chances. It's really similar to B-ball where if you have no outside threat (particularly the 3) they just collapse on you in the paint. In the Sixers case they have no inside presence to keep teams honest.

Again...it's really not so much a system problem with the Flyers as much as it is a lack of the right personnel particulalrly with respect to D men who are mobile. Getting the first pass helps if the forwards tighten it up and support the D men and don't look for the long pass but that also requires puck possession (winning faceoffs etc). The other team also knows that our D is not mobile in the D zone so they forecheck the crap out of them too and our D men are scramblin.

Let's face it...losing Pronger with his big shot, Carle with his mobillity and basically just getting Schenn who has been good but not a franchise D man like a Weber or Suter ..is just simply not enough to succeed in this league.

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